Biometric Passports
- Thread starter FUBAR69
- Start date
karym6
DW Regular
given the absurd level of paranioa here, I bet you guys will be over the moon to read this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/09/reaper_war_robots_above_london_olympics_2012/
(cue suspense music)Just think, "they" will be watching your every move for a few weeks in the summer of 2012...
(cue suspense music)Just think, "they" will be watching your every move for a few weeks in the summer of 2012...
Donnie Darko
Inactive User
karym6
DW Regular
aparently not - I loved the bit that explains the RAF doesnt arm theirs.
I guess if they did, it would put a stop to illegal parking in Docklands
I guess if they did, it would put a stop to illegal parking in Docklands
FUBAR69
Inactive User
Don't get me wrong there would be some pro's with a ID card or "super Passport" but do they outway the Con's ?
I know someone will come back saying "there is a price to pay for freedom" but you just have to look at how much our society has changed in the last 30 years, from documentation to civil rights to being stopped in the street and searched for no reason to being surrounded by people who can't even be bothered to learn our language.
And the best about it is that the government alone is to blame for 95% of it, but we need to reap the cr*p
Poor show.........
I know someone will come back saying "there is a price to pay for freedom" but you just have to look at how much our society has changed in the last 30 years, from documentation to civil rights to being stopped in the street and searched for no reason to being surrounded by people who can't even be bothered to learn our language.
And the best about it is that the government alone is to blame for 95% of it, but we need to reap the cr*p
Poor show.........
it`s got nothing to do with paranioa (not for me anyway)it`s just that i do not buy the governments reasons for such things as much as you do
FUBAR69
Inactive User
I remember people laughing their heads of when someone mentioned the EU and us joining, oh how they chuckled and called others paranoid.
and the world is flat........and this leech will fix you........can only get HIV if you are gay..........terrorists as politician.............female PM..............
and the world is flat........and this leech will fix you........can only get HIV if you are gay..........terrorists as politician.............female PM..............
karym6
DW Regular
sorr guy,everyone is entitled to their opinion - but this is all just a case of paranoia. The biometric passport itself doesnt hold any more data than the regular passpot holds, so I dont see why you would be worried about that. The RFID chip and antenna in seems to be your root cause of worry or some sort of bizzare tracking scheme - I take it you all walk around with your passport on you constantly? Even if you did have it on you 24/7, you would need to walk near the scanner in single file for the details to be picked up. If you want to know whats on the chip, look up on google how to read it, I am sure most of us have the equipment already (Nokia has built in RFID readers into quite a few of its phones). The encryption key for the passport is on the inside on the stiff page.
Also, I guess one of my reasons for not caring about this is that I have nothing to hide. If the governent really wants to see where I go on holiday, then fine. If they want to know when I open a bank account (they already get this info BTW) so b it. There is nothing in my background I worry about the government knowing.
Remember when I commented on this thread that scetpisicm is healthy? Well here is a point made, lots of people will not have understood the impact of a biometric passport before reading this thread. Now they do (minus the wailing paranioa) and ca mak their own minds up about it.
At then end of the day, lots of people just wont care.
Also, I guess one of my reasons for not caring about this is that I have nothing to hide. If the governent really wants to see where I go on holiday, then fine. If they want to know when I open a bank account (they already get this info BTW) so b it. There is nothing in my background I worry about the government knowing.
Remember when I commented on this thread that scetpisicm is healthy? Well here is a point made, lots of people will not have understood the impact of a biometric passport before reading this thread. Now they do (minus the wailing paranioa) and ca mak their own minds up about it.
At then end of the day, lots of people just wont care.
this of course is the root of the problem - and without mentioning names it's how more authoritarian and possibly even radical regimes get into power - they DO care - most of us dont - so they end up making the rules - as by the time enough do care it's too late
collapse the chunnel, put mines around the coast and if they cant speak english to explain how or why theyre here, deport them, and thats just to begin with. word would soon get round
FUBAR69
Inactive User
@ Katym6 so I take you are happy to hand over all your human rights then ?
Ok for them to do what they want ? like yourself I also have nothing to hide (currently) lol but that does not mean I am happy with a government hell bent on destroying any freedom I currently enjoy, I take it you would be sweet with a communistic state ?
And how do you know whats on the chip ? Oh thats right the government told you.....must be true then.
Ok with being locked up for a few months at a time without charge ? or would you like to keep THOSE human rights ?
As it has been said here already I do have the HUMAN RIGHT to anonymity to go about my lawful business with undue surveillance of any kind, regardless of what OUR government would like to think. If this country has a problem with International Terrorism then as the old saying goes "deal with the cause not the Symptoms" and stop using this as an excuse to gain a tighter and tighter strangle hold on what little rights we have left in this country.
Ok for them to do what they want ? like yourself I also have nothing to hide (currently) lol but that does not mean I am happy with a government hell bent on destroying any freedom I currently enjoy, I take it you would be sweet with a communistic state ?
And how do you know whats on the chip ? Oh thats right the government told you.....must be true then.
Ok with being locked up for a few months at a time without charge ? or would you like to keep THOSE human rights ?
As it has been said here already I do have the HUMAN RIGHT to anonymity to go about my lawful business with undue surveillance of any kind, regardless of what OUR government would like to think. If this country has a problem with International Terrorism then as the old saying goes "deal with the cause not the Symptoms" and stop using this as an excuse to gain a tighter and tighter strangle hold on what little rights we have left in this country.
karym6
DW Regular
Fubar, seriously - how are people taking away my human rights by giving me a biometric passport and ID card?
On the alleged human right to anonymity (of which there is none) there nearest you would get is article 8 of the European Unions convetion of Human Rights (its here, if you believe the propaganda: http://conventions.coe.int/treaty/en/Treaties/Html/005.htm). This is probably the nearest set of human rights that we operate by here in the UK - its used by most prison inmates as their basis for getting better conditions in prisons etc as well as educational establishments for improving conditions.
Once you have had a read of them, you will notice that it could be you are contravening articles 9 and 10 of my human rights by mentioning my posts. You may also be contravening article 1 also.
Now, if you want to talk about common decency, then yes you have every right to stay anonymous if you want to, no one is questioning that and noone ever has. However, at the present time, these are the rules as they are set out. Now people can go and read these human rights and make their own minds up about that as well. You will also notice that in the EU human rights, there is a section that mentions any government that is part of the union has the right to remove these rights in case of national emergency. Before you go flaming this, read the whole thing carefully and closely.
Now, I know that most of the negative people on this thread will come straight back saying that the EU convention on human rights means nothing, thats ok as you can find the 1998 Human Rights act here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1998/ukpga_19980042_en_1 - this is the official list of human rights in the UK.
Finally, no one here has been saying that the government is right in what they are doing with new forms of ID - we have just been discussing the pros and cons. Unfortunately there have been times here where the cons have drowned out the pros because people do not completely understand the issue. This is why I think threads like this are fairly constructive (to a point) - others will read this, follow the links and make their own minds up. Which is far more important that being told what is right and what is wrong.
On the alleged human right to anonymity (of which there is none) there nearest you would get is article 8 of the European Unions convetion of Human Rights (its here, if you believe the propaganda: http://conventions.coe.int/treaty/en/Treaties/Html/005.htm). This is probably the nearest set of human rights that we operate by here in the UK - its used by most prison inmates as their basis for getting better conditions in prisons etc as well as educational establishments for improving conditions.
Once you have had a read of them, you will notice that it could be you are contravening articles 9 and 10 of my human rights by mentioning my posts. You may also be contravening article 1 also.
Now, if you want to talk about common decency, then yes you have every right to stay anonymous if you want to, no one is questioning that and noone ever has. However, at the present time, these are the rules as they are set out. Now people can go and read these human rights and make their own minds up about that as well. You will also notice that in the EU human rights, there is a section that mentions any government that is part of the union has the right to remove these rights in case of national emergency. Before you go flaming this, read the whole thing carefully and closely.
Now, I know that most of the negative people on this thread will come straight back saying that the EU convention on human rights means nothing, thats ok as you can find the 1998 Human Rights act here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1998/ukpga_19980042_en_1 - this is the official list of human rights in the UK.
Finally, no one here has been saying that the government is right in what they are doing with new forms of ID - we have just been discussing the pros and cons. Unfortunately there have been times here where the cons have drowned out the pros because people do not completely understand the issue. This is why I think threads like this are fairly constructive (to a point) - others will read this, follow the links and make their own minds up. Which is far more important that being told what is right and what is wrong.
karym6 you could make it as politician.
oxkiller
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karym6 you could make it as politician.
god help us all time to jump ship
FUBAR69
Inactive User
@ Karym6, Thank you for your link but I am already quite well conversed with the European Unions convention of Human Rights, in particular Article 2 as we are currently using this as part of our Public Inquiry, and as you sound like you know what you are talking about you will also know that this can be used retrospectively as indeed we are.
Therefore it can be argued that just becuase some Weener in Brussels has not yet penned the Article that covers anonymity in particular it does not mean as stated by yourself that I have no right to it.
If I or any of us have no right to anonymity then what is the purpose of the DPA ? why are my personal details not available via the FOI ?
And as stated by our QC the European Unions convention of Human Rights can be read in a manner of lights.
To summarise, because it is not yet written does not mean it does not naturally exist.
Therefore it can be argued that just becuase some Weener in Brussels has not yet penned the Article that covers anonymity in particular it does not mean as stated by yourself that I have no right to it.
If I or any of us have no right to anonymity then what is the purpose of the DPA ? why are my personal details not available via the FOI ?
And as stated by our QC the European Unions convention of Human Rights can be read in a manner of lights.
To summarise, because it is not yet written does not mean it does not naturally exist.
if you - and more importantly the EU - actually believe that then we is in deep do do
wonder if it will work with lottery checks lol
FUBAR69
Inactive User
So before it was written that murder was against the law, it was ok to do then ?
FUBAR69
Inactive User
And yes I do believe it, we are using the European Unions convetion of Human Rights for a incident that took place in 1995, and the particular articles were not even written at that time.
Just because someone writes a human rights act into law tommorrow does that not mean that it was also my right today ?
Just because someone writes a human rights act into law tommorrow does that not mean that it was also my right today ?
thats a long time ago but yes it was - it was perfectly ok to kill people - and still is - if some moron tells you to - unfortunately a long time ago people used to do it without a moron in charge - the morons thought about this a lot, called it murder and made it illegal - afaik it's still actually illegal in some states not to kill someone when a moron tells you to (they can kill u for it) - provided they say it's a war and that it's an enemy - of course the morons define what a war is and who the enemy are
as to human rights existing before they are law - interesting if totally insane concept (and I am not being funny here - it is literally an insane concept) - as I am sure Bush's lawyers will testify
as to human rights existing before they are law - interesting if totally insane concept (and I am not being funny here - it is literally an insane concept) - as I am sure Bush's lawyers will testify
This new passport seems like a complete waste of money. Personally I cannot see the logic behind it. If someone wants to 'hack it' they will. The British passport is very much sought globally and there are people probably breaking it know.
To me the passport is the main source of ID in the UK as well as the sole travel document needed when on the move. Unless the financial institutions all have to the capacity to use the advanced technology in this passport to verify the passport holder it will not help in combating fraud.
So far as immigration into the UK goes most illegal immigrants dont walk in through airports but rather come in via other means. If we are to try and stop the illegal immigrants coming in we need to channel more resources protecting our borders.
This new passport seems like a stepping stone and a warmer for getting us used to carrying around some form electronic ID which will in turn lead to the ID card some day.
Personally I dont see why the goverment should spend so much time and resources developing such an ID card when it's main use will be to combat fraud. Fraud needs to be addressed by the financial institutions who benefit from having your account. I think people should address why we need biometric ID's as it doesnt seem to be for immigration purposes.
To me the passport is the main source of ID in the UK as well as the sole travel document needed when on the move. Unless the financial institutions all have to the capacity to use the advanced technology in this passport to verify the passport holder it will not help in combating fraud.
So far as immigration into the UK goes most illegal immigrants dont walk in through airports but rather come in via other means. If we are to try and stop the illegal immigrants coming in we need to channel more resources protecting our borders.
This new passport seems like a stepping stone and a warmer for getting us used to carrying around some form electronic ID which will in turn lead to the ID card some day.
Personally I dont see why the goverment should spend so much time and resources developing such an ID card when it's main use will be to combat fraud. Fraud needs to be addressed by the financial institutions who benefit from having your account. I think people should address why we need biometric ID's as it doesnt seem to be for immigration purposes.
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