FUBAR69
Inactive User
Nicely put Munkey
Biometric Passports
- Thread starter FUBAR69
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FUBAR69
Inactive User
Karym6, just to clarify, you stated that I could be in contravention of articles 1, 9 & 10 of the Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms:
Article 1- Obligation to respect human rights ~ How I have contravened this article?, you will need to explain.
Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion ~ Again not in contravention of this act either as we all have the right to freedom of expression.
Article 10 – Freedom of expression ~ Since I do not constitute as a public body I am not in contravention of this either.
And by the fact you are stating I am insane you are in contravention of my right to expression.
And just to clearly state where I am coming from, you keep refering to my human rights as something allowed by a particular government, this is not the case and indeed since a government can suspend these "rights" in times of emergency even if it was declared by the same, then this right is nothing but lip service and indeed no right at all.
@ Wonko, whether or not the law was written that it was wrong to take a life is neither here nor there, it was, always has been, is currently and always will be wrong to take a fellow humans life. And since I am not a member of the armed forces the government has no authority to tell me to take life or indeed have mine taken.
By the fact that my "Human Rights" change drastically depending on where on the planet I am standing it shows rather clearly that the process is far from over. And the fact that our own "British" government did not come up with these laws but has had to be dragged kicking & screaming and periodically filling it's nappy on route shows we are far from finished.
Experience has shown us that the government do very little if it does not have an interest, an agenda or a decent kickback coming.
It is easy to fall into small minded arguments over local laws, or to forget that we the British are direct decendants of the most barbaric race known to man and the imperialistic colonisation of 75% of the globe, and not by peaceful means either. But we have the cheek to hold our chests out and put fourth our "Ideal Society" as a shining example to the rest of the world ~ thank god I wore my corset as my sides would have split by now ! LOL
MY rights are God given, not an allowance given to me by some jumped up law student or some decrepit judge who is far more interested in getting home to his mansion to whip his young stable boy. And for anyone thinking that God and the judiciary have no place on the same page then you are wrong as they are like hand and glove.
By the fact that I need a passport at all shows me that government has trampled on my human god given rights that I cannot travel freely throughout the world without one which was of course the case until 1414 which in historical terms is the blinking of an eye, the fact that too many greedy and ambitious people in positions of power over the centuries have eroded international trust and increased the need for cross border documentation does not mean it is right.
To many times I have heard people say "well if you have nothing to hide you should not mind" well sorry to disagree but I do mind an oppressive government sticking it nose where I can confirm it is not welcome, if indeed I am convicted of an offence then one would expect to face lifetime sanctions on movements and interests but until that point it really should keep its snivelling nose out of my private business.
~ well it is a rant room after all lol ~
Article 1- Obligation to respect human rights ~ How I have contravened this article?, you will need to explain.
Article 9 – Freedom of thought, conscience and religion ~ Again not in contravention of this act either as we all have the right to freedom of expression.
Article 10 – Freedom of expression ~ Since I do not constitute as a public body I am not in contravention of this either.
And by the fact you are stating I am insane you are in contravention of my right to expression.
And just to clearly state where I am coming from, you keep refering to my human rights as something allowed by a particular government, this is not the case and indeed since a government can suspend these "rights" in times of emergency even if it was declared by the same, then this right is nothing but lip service and indeed no right at all.
@ Wonko, whether or not the law was written that it was wrong to take a life is neither here nor there, it was, always has been, is currently and always will be wrong to take a fellow humans life. And since I am not a member of the armed forces the government has no authority to tell me to take life or indeed have mine taken.
By the fact that my "Human Rights" change drastically depending on where on the planet I am standing it shows rather clearly that the process is far from over. And the fact that our own "British" government did not come up with these laws but has had to be dragged kicking & screaming and periodically filling it's nappy on route shows we are far from finished.
Experience has shown us that the government do very little if it does not have an interest, an agenda or a decent kickback coming.
It is easy to fall into small minded arguments over local laws, or to forget that we the British are direct decendants of the most barbaric race known to man and the imperialistic colonisation of 75% of the globe, and not by peaceful means either. But we have the cheek to hold our chests out and put fourth our "Ideal Society" as a shining example to the rest of the world ~ thank god I wore my corset as my sides would have split by now ! LOL
MY rights are God given, not an allowance given to me by some jumped up law student or some decrepit judge who is far more interested in getting home to his mansion to whip his young stable boy. And for anyone thinking that God and the judiciary have no place on the same page then you are wrong as they are like hand and glove.
By the fact that I need a passport at all shows me that government has trampled on my human god given rights that I cannot travel freely throughout the world without one which was of course the case until 1414 which in historical terms is the blinking of an eye, the fact that too many greedy and ambitious people in positions of power over the centuries have eroded international trust and increased the need for cross border documentation does not mean it is right.
To many times I have heard people say "well if you have nothing to hide you should not mind" well sorry to disagree but I do mind an oppressive government sticking it nose where I can confirm it is not welcome, if indeed I am convicted of an offence then one would expect to face lifetime sanctions on movements and interests but until that point it really should keep its snivelling nose out of my private business.
~ well it is a rant room after all lol ~
I believe you'll find that if the morons decide it is a suitable war then everyone is part fo the military - regardless of their own opinion on the matter
and I am not entirely sure you wish to go down the road of human rights are god given my friend - that way lies the end of all human rights - as can be clearly seen by the amount of human rights actually accorded in countries practising laws as laid out by god
anyway - new passport - horrible waste of time and money - wont achieve what is claimed to the public - but will probably achieve what is wanted by the government
and I am not entirely sure you wish to go down the road of human rights are god given my friend - that way lies the end of all human rights - as can be clearly seen by the amount of human rights actually accorded in countries practising laws as laid out by god
anyway - new passport - horrible waste of time and money - wont achieve what is claimed to the public - but will probably achieve what is wanted by the government
Lol, this seems to have developed into a good post clocking thread. You're all just going round in circles. Why not agree to disagree and pull the plug on it?
How does that figure nara? This seems like quite a good discussion with good points raised on both sides (without the normal slander lol)
Unless you can answer FUBAR69's questions ofcourse which I am intrigued to have an answer for.
FUBAR69
Inactive User
Post clocking thread ? don't think that was a fair comment, thought the point was to put across our opinions in the forum?
Can you honestly say all of your 6.800 odd posts were life changing ?
Can you honestly say all of your 6.800 odd posts were life changing ?
neil1962
Banned
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
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:slaps: very well put
Donnie Darko
Inactive User
FUBAR69
Inactive User
There is a tale of a boy and a Zen Master
When the boy was 14 the boy was given a horse, everyone said "how fantastic"
Zen Master said "We will see"
When the boy turned 16 he fell off the horse and messed up his legs, everyone said "how awful"
Zen Master said "We will see"
When the boy turned 18 a war broke out but because of his messed up legs he could not go, everyone said "how wonderful"
Zen Master said "We will see"
The tale continues for some time, but in short & in answer to your question Donnie Darko is.....We will see......
When the boy was 14 the boy was given a horse, everyone said "how fantastic"
Zen Master said "We will see"
When the boy turned 16 he fell off the horse and messed up his legs, everyone said "how awful"
Zen Master said "We will see"
When the boy turned 18 a war broke out but because of his messed up legs he could not go, everyone said "how wonderful"
Zen Master said "We will see"
The tale continues for some time, but in short & in answer to your question Donnie Darko is.....We will see......
karym6
DW Regular
Fubar - I am actually quite surprised with your post here. I hadnt planned on contributing further due to the fact this would just go round and round and round with the same posts fueled by paranoia and poor knowledge of the issue. That and someone mentioning that it is ok to kill people?!?!? But seeing that there is real discussion here I will try and answer..
Your comments are actually fair and quite well concieved.
My point on the human right you were apparently breaking was just that - a point. It serves to show that the EU convention on human rights really does depend on how you interpret them and this can be influenced by your surroundings. So, when I made that post it was to show how people can interpret these articles and use them to their own advantage - essentially the EU convention on human rights doesnt really mean anything, it only servers to salve the conscious of well meaning people.
To be honest I agree with nearly everything you have posted there. Our interpretation of basic rights will largely depend on where we are at the time and how we feel, and this cannot be put into a law.
The only thing I disagree with is the part about the need for a passport breaks any basic rights we have - again this can be open to interpretation as it could be perceived that owning a passport actually gives you the right to travel. And right now in the UK, you need a passport to travel, may not be a law, but it is definitely required.
As for the need for a biometric passport - I guess the proof of that pudding is in the eating, we shall have to wait and see just how it will turn out. personally, I dont mind having one, I am not completely sure that it will do everything it says it will, but I dont believe there are any cloak and dagger plots here to limit what we can do as a country.
I do think though, and I fell you will agree with me on this, the discussion in this thread is actually quite informative and will enable others reading it to make up their own minds on the topic.
Your comments are actually fair and quite well concieved.
My point on the human right you were apparently breaking was just that - a point. It serves to show that the EU convention on human rights really does depend on how you interpret them and this can be influenced by your surroundings. So, when I made that post it was to show how people can interpret these articles and use them to their own advantage - essentially the EU convention on human rights doesnt really mean anything, it only servers to salve the conscious of well meaning people.
To be honest I agree with nearly everything you have posted there. Our interpretation of basic rights will largely depend on where we are at the time and how we feel, and this cannot be put into a law.
The only thing I disagree with is the part about the need for a passport breaks any basic rights we have - again this can be open to interpretation as it could be perceived that owning a passport actually gives you the right to travel. And right now in the UK, you need a passport to travel, may not be a law, but it is definitely required.
As for the need for a biometric passport - I guess the proof of that pudding is in the eating, we shall have to wait and see just how it will turn out. personally, I dont mind having one, I am not completely sure that it will do everything it says it will, but I dont believe there are any cloak and dagger plots here to limit what we can do as a country.
I do think though, and I fell you will agree with me on this, the discussion in this thread is actually quite informative and will enable others reading it to make up their own minds on the topic.
FUBAR69
Inactive User
Hence the reason for the thread to begin with Karym6, and yes I do agree with most of your points and yes the pudding will be in the eating.
But I do believe that we as a society need to keep a watchful eye on such things and not simply take at face value what is fed to us by the government of the day.
I have also found this thread very informative and hope others have too, I also enjoyed the challenges to my remarks and comments.
Touche'
english
Inactive User
Good pointWhy don't you do that?
Not my thread.
english
Inactive User
what do you mean??
Only the person who started the thread can make a request to end it.
(other than a mod/admin doing it themselves)
english
Inactive User
i meant you ending your input, surely you've stated your point. i'm sick of watching you bash good questions and opinions m8 , that's all
btw i think these things could easily be abused and used as a tracking device. it's obvious
thats me.
btw i think these things could easily be abused and used as a tracking device. it's obvious
thats me.
Donnie Darko
Inactive User
A passport without a chip is in effect a tracking device,surely if you leave/enter a country it must flag somewhere?
karym6
DW Regular
true, but there are so many other ways to track someone as they move around -especially between countries. And they are already here.
For instance, why not track ticket purchases, or track someones mobile phone as they go to airports? If biometric passports are for secret tracking of te populace, it just seems odd that no one worries about the above.
After all, the US government could tell the location of Pablo Escobar based on his mobile phone 17 years ago, and wasnt that Chechen (or Georgian) politician assasinated based on the location given out by his mobile phone?
It just strikes me that biometric passports would be a costly and tricky way of tracking people - again, if the nay sayers here were to be believed, once they have been properly cracked and cloned with stolen ID's, then it would be a pointless system for tracking as you would never really know who it was you were actually tracking....
Oh right! Sorry we were on different wavelengths there. :Sorry:
(having said that, I had ended my input until you asked the question)
