Solar Panels...Too good to be true?

MFCGMFC

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hey all

had the guy at the door trying to sell solar panels

so we listened to his selling point and arranged an appointment

today the salesman came out and said

its free to install you dont pay a penny, we fit it give you £1k cashback then the finance company take £120 a month but you wont pay that....

how i ask...

well the electrcity you make goes into the national grid and you will receive cheque from British gas for the electricity you have made and that will cover your finance and leave you in profit, aswell as covering your ever decreasing energy bill

is this all too good to be true? why hasnt everyone signed up to this?
 
Sounds too good to be true mate. There's no guarantee you're going to either generate or get that much cash back from British Gas so you'll be liable for any short fall.
 
Loads round my area have had it done, gotto have a south facing roof i think, mates got them, i'm sure he said that if you pay for them then you get all the money back from government over set time or they install free and you only get a small percentage of the money,
besides do solar panels work in Scotland lol
 
the figures were based on 2.9 hours of light per day so minimum we would make is £736 profit in the first year...?
 
I've got PV panels and AFAIK there are two different methods.
- You buy them outright, paying the fitting fee (you have to get them installed by a FIT approved supplier if you are going to be claiming money back off the government) and all money paid out under FIT (14.9p per KWh), export tarrif (normally 50% of what you generate @ around 4.6p per KWh) and savings on electricity bill (my bill went from around £75 to £45 a month) are all yours to keep.
- Second option is the 'rent a roof' type deal. Basically Install pays for the panels, they keep the FIT and export payments and you make money by saving on your electricity bill.

After doing a load of research my own opinion is stay clear of the 'rent a roof' type schemes. You could have problems went it comes to selling and there are potential issues with insurance and mortgage as effectively you are sub-letting.

If you have the cash (remember, this is a long term tie up, can you use the money better elsewhere ?), can get a good deal and have space for 4KW of south facing panels then buying them outright might still be worthwhile but expect payback period to be 10 to 15 years or more.


Not sure exactly what the deal you were being offered it. Do you own the panels ? Are you getting FIT and export payments, both will be made by your electricity supplier in the form of a quarterly check. Sounds like you are basically doing option 1 but agreeing to use their finance company to fund the purchase ? In which case I would query the £120 a month figure. I don't have it to hand but there is good website you can enter your house details in and it will give an estimate of how much money PV panels would generate. I'll try and post it tonight.
 
We have had ours for nearly a year now and we pay about £120 a month. Our meter was an old one and was going backwards for first 3 months until they changed it. That gave us £300 rebate on electricity and we had nearly £300 last quarter from feed in tariff although we did get in just before they went down this last time. I think with that and what you save on running costs they are well worth it. Cost of loan goes down each year as we pay it off and after 10 years it is all profit. It sounded a no brainier to me and the wife after we researched it. Don't know how much the reduced tariff impacts the viability but should think its still worth it.
 
Hidden costs of the 'free' (i.e. lease your roof for 25 years) deals need to be checked thoroughly!
 
Here are the actual readings of the power generated / used in Kw/h. House faces 19 deg. East, Location in the North East,Solar panels installed 295Kw/h.
Are retired and try to do washing etc during daytime.

GENERATED MONTHLY AVERAGE
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

2012 4.26 9.63 7.98 11.17 9.62 9.87 10.24 9.20 6.32 3.15 2.17
2013 2.01 4.47 5.28 9.83 11.49 12.76 13.85

Panels installed Feb 2012


USED MONTHLY AVERAGE
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec

2009 10.19 10.29 9.94 8.83 7.29 9.42 9.61 9.55 9.43 8.61 10.37 9.67
2010 9.74 7.64 9.38 9.00 7.87 9.47 9.45 9.97 9.93 9.16 9.77 11
2011 11.32 10.43 9.23 9.97 9.58 10.13 10.58 10.35 8.10 10.45 10.43 11.90
2012 10.10 6.00 5.39 6.29 5.63 5.72 6.13 6.33 6.84 7.75 8.29 9.83
2013 8.72 7.62 3.55 6.10 5.92 4.65 6.27


Years 2009,2010 and 2011 added for comparison
 
OK, found the link

Solar PV (Photovoltaic) Feed-In Tariff Calculator - Discover how much a Solar PV System costs to install and the payback profits from the Feed In Tariff

Enter your post code, roof direction and KW size that your installer has said will fit.

Next click on assumptions because some of the ones they use are widely out,

My daytime electricity rate: £ per kWh (inc VAT) - Enter your KWh price here. Their default is slightly more then most people pay I expect.
Use Standard Export Tariff (4.64p/kWh in July 2013) ... OR ...My energy supplier has agreed to buy back at £ per kWh - Leave the default unless you have a buy back price from your supplier
The install type is: - Pick which ever one applies. I assume it will be first or second option if you already own the house.
% of the energy generated will be used in my home - If you have a lot of stuff on during the day, fridge, freezer, washing machine, computers, etc or people in the house all the time then this will probably be > 50%. Or <50% if you are pretty energy efficient. I would suggest 50% though as a starting point.
I will have an export meter: Depends on your install. I didn't want one as I knew I would be using most of my output. My supplier British Gas assumes 50% if you don't have a meter.
I want to assess the benefits over a year period - Put in whatever period you are interested in, goverment pays FIT for 25 years I think.
Assume RPI of % and annual energy price inflation of % - There default is 10% which I think is crazy high, I change it to 1%. The higher the increase the more benefit you will see.
The roof angle is ° (or panel mounting angle if standalone) - Enter your roof angle if you know it. For the latitude the UK is, 35% is optimal but is quite shallow. Older houses are often over 45%.
Assume panel degradation to % of year 1 output after 30 years. You can get data from the panel vendors but I think most quote around 80% over 20 years so 70% over 30 years would be more realistic.
Assume inverter lifetime of years - Loads of research (and my installer) said to expect 10 to 12 years is more realistic. At the moment inverters cost around £800 though who knows in 10 to 12 years time.
Assume cable/inverter system losses of % of output - This will depend on your install but unless you have really long cable runs or a crap inverter then leave it at 18%

So plug all that information in and see what it pays back per year. The first year figure is in the right ball park for all the years as loss in panel efficency is offset by increase in FIT payment, energy price increases. Don't forget to budget for a new inverter after 10 to 12 years.

So I plugged the data I suggested, 3KW system on a east-south-east facing roof and it gives me a figure of around £515 a year. If I change that to a 4KW system on a south facing roof with all optimal values, that gives me £750 a year so no way is it going to cover a £120 a month loan.

Also if you go directly to an installer, that kind of system is going to cost around £7k plus say another grand in 12 years if you pay all up front. So that would be 8K over the 20 years (though government will pay for 25 years).
Calculate that against the loan the company is offering, you says its £120 a month but how many months is it for ?

If you are getting £750 a year payback (remember, that would be an optimal install), in theory that is 10 years to payback and then £750 profit a year, though of course you need the money up front and you could have used that for investing elsewhere.

Phew, hopefully that makes sense.
 
I always check these posts out as I always think are they worth it myself but its a lot of money and a long time should you get shafted some how in the deal. And the majoirty of people who have them seem split down the middle as whether they are worth it or not. I'm guessing in time as the technology develops then they will defo be worth it.
 
I always check these posts out as I always think are they worth it myself but its a lot of money and a long time should you get shafted some how in the deal. And the majoirty of people who have them seem split down the middle as whether they are worth it or not. I'm guessing in time as the technology develops then they will defo be worth it.

technology develops but at the same time the government is reducing its subsidy. When I got the panels last year, I am getting 45p per KWh, then it was 20'something and now its 15p per KWh (dependant on your council tax band).
 
technology develops but at the same time the government is reducing its subsidy. When I got the panels last year, I am getting 45p per KWh, then it was 20'something and now its 15p per KWh (dependant on your council tax band).

Typical Government out to bum you every which way they can! Would just be nice for the tech to get better and the prices to come down enough to justify buying it to power only your own house. Not having an electric bill ever again would be great even if it meant just paying for the solar for a few years instead of quarter of a century. But thats never going to happen as the money the Government and power companies would loose would be to much so I think they'll do there best to hold this tech back.
 
Typical Government out to bum you every which way they can! Would just be nice for the tech to get better and the prices to come down enough to justify buying it to power only your own house. Not having an electric bill ever again would be great even if it meant just paying for the solar for a few years instead of quarter of a century. But thats never going to happen as the money the Government and power companies would loose would be to much so I think they'll do there best to hold this tech back.

Price could actually be going up, there is a EU court case happening at the moment with some German panel manufactures asking for import duties on Chinese panels who they are saying are dumping panels in the EU below cost.
 
clones lol

sorry just had to
 
After doing a load of research my own opinion is stay clear of the 'rent a roof' type schemes. You could have problems went it comes to selling and there are potential issues with insurance and mortgage as effectively you are sub-letting.

The ShadeGreener lot are 'mortgage friendly' as I've remortgaged with them in place and if you decide to sell then the new owners have the choice of keeping them or they will remove them free of charge.
 
The ShadeGreener lot are 'mortgage friendly' as I've remortgaged with them in place and if you decide to sell then the new owners have the choice of keeping them or they will remove them free of charge.

I have filled out a form with shade greener to see if my property can get them installed and ask them to come over and have a proper chat. Looking at thier website and FAQ's you dont lose out on anything to all questions mortgage etc.
 
Just watching the videos on shade greener website and it is very tempting!! Just the sceptic in me as it certainly seems to good to be true.
 
Lol. Im gona go in with an open mind get the quote talk to em see the contract etc and then decide what the best options are 22,000 people cant be wrong or can they ?
 
Lol. Im gona go in with an open mind get the quote talk to em see the contract etc and then decide what the best options are 22,000 people cant be wrong or can they ?

Keep us posted on how you get on...and if you find out the catch...let us all know lol
 
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