How do I cable for 3 way lighting?

[Munkey]

Need a little advice on how to lay cable for lighting in a stairwell. I have 3 floors in total, GF, 1st Floor and Loft. I'd like the ability to have control over the light on each level. How do I wire for this?

I'm planning on running a single cable in a radial circuit, so I would go from the fuse box to the first light switch, then onto the second light switch and onto the third. I would run a 2 core T&E cable from each light switch into the bulb on each floor so my diagram would look something like this,

I've got a sparky coming in to complete the terminating of the connections, all I need to do is lay the correct cable, any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Diddy]

You want to control each light independent of the others. So you can only turn the ground floor on/off from the ground floor. Same for 1st and 2nd ?

 

[Diddy]

looking at your diagram it looks as if you want to control every light from every floor if so the switching circuit gets wired like so -

 

[Diddy]

That's the switching side finished. From there you also want to run a T+E from fuse box to light 1 then from 1-2 then from 2-3 - All in T+E. Just the 1 cable from switch 1 goes to the light.
So at light 1 you have 3 separate T+E cables. 1 from fuse box 1 from switch and then 1 going to light 2........Hope I have explained myself well enough.

*Edit to add - At light point 1 you may need 4 T+E cables......the 4th cable would be called your loop feed/neutral........this cable would be used to feed other independent lights on the same circuit...........I really hope you see this post before you start lol as your diagram is wrong mate.

 

[Diddy]

it seems my links are forbidden.....also i have just realised that the way i was suggesting wiring it was wrong for what you want munkey. i will sketch you out something or i will find you a link to go read. sorry for the confusion mate.

 

[Munkey]

Thanks for your advice mate, yes I'd like to control each light independent of the others in the stairwell.

So is this what you are suggesting?

Apologies, I'm a bit of a dunce at this stuff..

 

[Diddy]

Correct mate apart from the link from fuse box to switch 1....not required. To make things simpler to manage/wire you could just make it a 3 core+E cable between each light....so this would carry your loop feed all the way to the last lighting point. You could then wire on to the rest of your lighting circuit from there.
So At each lighting point you would have a looped Feed, Switch Wire and neutral. Im sorry I can't think of a better way of explaining it....I could do it with my eyes closed lol....but explaining it I find 10* more complicated lol.

**BTW when I say 3 core I mean 3 cores + the earth wire.....just to avoid confusion.

 

[carlos]

@ Munkey, are you wanting to switch say the loft light from any of the 3 switches on the stairwells ??

 

[Munkey]

Correct mate apart from the link from fuse box to switch 1....not required. To make things simpler to manage/wire you could just make it a 3 core+E cable between each light....so this would carry your loop feed all the way to the last lighting point. You could then wire on to the rest of your lighting circuit from there.
So At each lighting point you would have a looped Feed, Switch Wire and neutral. Im sorry I can't think of a better way of explaining it....I could do it with my eyes closed lol....but explaining it I find 10* more complicated lol.

**BTW when I say 3 core I mean 3 cores + the earth wire.....just to avoid confusion.

I think you've explained it well enough mate, here is what I'm going to do,

Can't thank you enough mate, the electrical wiring has been my biggest headache so far.

@ Munkey, are you wanting to switch say the loft light from any of the 3 switches on the stairwells ??

That's right mate, I want the ability to turn off the downstairs and 1st floor stairwell/passage light from upstairs in the loft landing area and vice versa.

I'm armed with 3 core cable so will have a bash at this tonight.

Cheers lads :Cheers:

 

[carlos]

you are going to be needing some intermediate switches then m8 if you are wanting to switch 1 light from 3 switches m8.

 

[Diddy]

@Carlos the wiring in his diagram accounts for the need for intermediate switches. I advised munkey to wire it this way so that the sparky can then fit the switches and do the internal connections which will need doing to suit his needs. Also running a 3 core+E to all points will allow for any emergency lighting ect that may/may not be required. At least the way he is going to wire it now allows for all combinations.

 

[Mick]

Done this for you in paint

Hopefully it helps

Are you doing european style wiring with the power in the switches ?

If yes then this drawing might not be of use to you mate.

PS I had 2 beers on the way home so might be a little out lol.

Uploads not working lol

Mickie

 

[Diddy]

Done this for you in paint

Hopefully it helps

Are you doing european style wiring with the power in the switches ?

If yes then this drawing might not be of use to you mate.

PS I had 2 beers on the way home so might be a little out lol.

Uploads not working lol

Mickie

That was my 1st post lol....But then I realised that he wants to be able to switch lights 1,2+3 from ANY 3 gang switch on any floor,he does not want light number 2+3 comming on just because he has switched light number 1 on and likewise all the other combinations. So therefore he needs to run a sw from each switch ....then when the sparky comes round to terminate he can use whatever cores he needs to do the job. Also running a 3 core around like I suggested incorporates future upgrades...if need be.

 

[Mick]

To be honest as munkey is spending allot on his setup I would not even run T+E

Run Lutron system beldin cable...

Then use lutron to control all your lighting in your house.

Just daisy chain the beldin cable from the main panel to all light switches - and to a point in a cupboard for the power adaptor.

Pisses all over regular wiring and is low voltage, and you can make any switch do whatever you want.

Mickie

 

[Munkey]

Wow, thanks for that Mickie. I appreciate your time in helping me out :Cheers:

I did look into Lutron lighting and other similar brands but as I'll be moving soon I didn't want to go overboard with any fixtures and fittings that I'd have to leave behind.

Next year I'll be installing some of the nicer gear into the new house and will be fully automated. This house has been quite a test bed for future projects.

Diddy, cables are in as per the diagram, I really couldn't have pulled this off with any degree of confidence without your help. Thanks again :Clap:

The electrical cabling part for the loft and first floor is finally complete, tonight I will sleep easy.

 

[Diddy]

This is doing my head in lol. FWIW I have been a fully qualified spark for 20+years and yet I still get some stuff wrong lol.
Right Munkey - you need to run another 2 3 cores between each of the switches. And secondly run a 2nd 3 core between lighting points 1-2-3.
The way we have wired it just now would work but each light would not switch independently of the other.
I am so sorry about my error on this mate. But it's not too much out. so -
1. Run 2 more 3 cores between each switch 1-2-3
2. Run 1 more 3 core between each lighting point 1-2-3
Honest mate that is it. That is deffo correct to suit what you want/need.
Be good if you could mark each cable with perm marker just put a 1,2,3 on the end of each cable at the switch. I would also write sw on the cable that goes from switch to the light.
In my defence this is quite a simple/complicated piece of house wiring. But this will deffo work when you add them last few cables. Once again im really sorry for the confusion.
BTW the way it is wired at the moment will work in that all 3 lights will switch off and on together at each point, but they will not work independently of each other. That is where I got confused.

 

[Munkey]

This is doing my head in lol. FWIW I have been a fully qualified spark for 20+years and yet I still get some stuff wrong lol.
Right Munkey - you need to run another 2 3 cores between each of the switches. And secondly run a 2nd 3 core between lighting points 1-2-3.
The way we have wired it just now would work but each light would not switch independently of the other.
I am so sorry about my error on this mate. But it's not too much out. so -
1. Run 2 more 3 cores between each switch 1-2-3
2. Run 1 more 3 core between each lighting point 1-2-3
Honest mate that is it. That is deffo correct to suit what you want/need.
Be good if you could mark each cable with perm marker just put a 1,2,3 on the end of each cable at the switch. I would also write sw on the cable that goes from switch to the light.
In my defence this is quite a simple/complicated piece of house wiring. But this will deffo work when you add them last few cables. Once again im really sorry for the confusion.
BTW the way it is wired at the moment will work in that all 3 lights will switch off and on together at each point, but they will not work independently of each other. That is where I got confused.

Hey no probs mate, even if it were wrong I'd still be able to change the wiring as I've left access for all of the electrics until it's tested and working.

I still appreciate your help mate, even if it meant I'd have to turn the hob on in the kitchen to switch the lights off upstairs.

I'll draft your suggestions in a diagram tonight and post here.

Kinda lucky I spent the whole day bonding and hardwalling bents bits of wall lol.

 

[Mick]

why not go for rako then its wireless and will do everything that lutron will do.

I think putting 2 x 3 cores and a T+E was extreme lol.

fooking hell lmao make sure you use deep back boxes.

47mm would be nice back boxes for any switch with potentially 19 or so wires inside (intemediate switches).

I mean if you are moving just make them all work together mate ffs lol independent and two way lmao... what a night mare.

I also have the feeling without relays you might come short with this idea pal...

Am I right?

You want to have one switch in each section of the hallway turn off/on the light in that area independent ? and at the same time be able to turn off/on that light from anywhere on the 2way circuit ?

Mickie

 

[Munkey]

Got it!

I'd say that it seems straightforward enough but I'd be bullshitting. Nice one Diddy, you saved me a good few quid not too mention I've learnt how to cable up 3 way switches :Cheers:

@Mickie, erm relays hey, isn't that an olympic sport? Damn I really should have done some more reading before starting.

Tell you what mate, I'll just run two cat5 cables alongside the 3 core cables from switch to switch just in case I'd like to change to a different system further down the line. Rako gear is always coming up on the bay and some of the prices are not too bad either so it's an option that'll always be available.

The thing is, Mrs Munkey has fallen in love with these particular switches and plug sockets (all matching of course) and I've been instructed to use the same throughout the house. Apparently I'm a philistine according to her, although I'm from Essex and not Palestine :err:

That's right I'd like one switch in each hallway to be able to turn off the hallway lights on any floor, it is overkill but I didn't think that yesterday. It's not that bad though, the whole house is being renovated and running cables is about the only job that I'm qualified to do.

 

[Mick]

Well I would not like to wire that intemediate switch pmsl... you know you will have 24 cable ends in that one lmao rofl

But to be honest I just realised what you wanted to do and its pretty easy mate but plenty of cables.

You do not need the cables between the light mate.

If I am right lol

you have one switch on the left turn on the upstairs - on all switches.

You have one switch in the middle turn on all the middle floor - on all switches

You have one switch in on the right turn on the bottom floor - on all switches

Let me draw you an example.