ghosts

[Utopie]

I think people who have experience 'stuff' should consider themselves lucky that they have had an insight that there is something more to this world.

If I thought all there is to this world was materialist ego driven pursuits, then I would shoot myself in the head right now... Wouldn't you? What's the point to this life, this consienceness if there is f*** all when you die? It's a simple question that far too many people spend a lifetime evading.

I'm not psychic, but have mediumistic potential - apparently - not reading too much into that until it happens, but I have witnessed a spirit being appear infront of me (not in a human form). I knew long before that though and have experience a handful of things before and after.

Like I say, I think I am pretty lucky that I have had personal evidence. Well done to everyone who came forward and spoke about their experiences, took some bollox to do that on this forum, lol.

 

[ManofScience]

If I thought all there is to this world was materialist ego driven pursuits, then I would shoot myself in the head right now... Wouldn't you?

why does there have to be ANYTHING to life? you'd shoot yourself? there's an example of people being scared of reality and fear of dying.

human arogance thinks we should have a higher purpose to our lives. there's no reason to life, we're here because of science and evolution.

 

[Utopie]

why does there have to be ANYTHING to life? you'd shoot yourself? there's an example of people being scared of reality and fear of dying.

human arogance thinks we should have a higher purpose to our lives. there's no reason to life, we're here because of science and evolution.

OK - so you'd understand that everything is energy, and that everything vibrates. You'd also understand that energy never dies, it just changes form.

Think you need to swat up on your quantum physics mate, you're behind the times roud:

 

[Captin]

why does there have to be ANYTHING to life? you'd shoot yourself? there's an example of people being scared of reality and fear of dying.

human arogance thinks we should have a higher purpose to our lives. there's no reason to life, we're here because of science and evolution.

I for one do not think my life is pointless, I know my life has a purpose, I just havent found it yet.

Evolution is just a theory, which is why it's called Dawins Theory Of Evolution, we havent proved it yet. Sure science can say we evolved from monkeys because our DNA is so close. So why is there no human evolution now, why is there no half ape half man beats roaming about, why have humans stopped evolving, where is the proof that half man half ape beings existed. Or did we just go to sleep an ape and wake up a human, with no tails.

Yes we have bones and fossils of other types of humans, but nothing inbetween. Or maybe we evolved from fish, like some belive, then why is there still nothing inbetween.

We can se forms of evolution in other species, but not man.

 

[Thommo]

evolution ummm, nope we are all bastard children of daddy alien and mummy ape.

i dont know but i see where this ghost thread is going, and its nothing to do with ghosts.

 

[señor ding dong]

If I thought all there is to this world was materialist ego driven pursuits, then I would shoot myself in the head right now... Wouldn't you?

No. But I guess that's what makes the faithfuls so delightfully unique, and I guess it's no coincidence that they are the biggest consumers of firearms and ammunition.

What's the point to this life, this consienceness if there is f*** all when you die? It's a simple question that far too many people spend a lifetime evading.

And which even more people spend a lifetime trying desperately to make sense of.

As is evident from your own comments, and as ManOfScience accurately pointed out, it appears that the majority of the faithful are indeed faithful because of fear, and it's never been my experience that theories or conclusions born out of fear have much validity to them, particularly when based on nothing more substantial than fairy tales and wishful thinking of the sort that would probably get you branded a lunatic if uttered out loud in any other guise than "religion".

I can only speak for myself, of course, but the potential absence of an afterlife doesn't concern me in the slightest. In fact, if even half the people who believe they're going to heaven really are, it doesn't sound like a place I'd want to spend eternity. The whole concept of this blissful eternity strikes me as both arrogant and infantile at the same time.

OK - so you'd understand that everything is energy, and that everything vibrates. You'd also understand that energy never dies, it just changes form.

Think you need to swat up on your quantum physics mate, you're behind the times roud:

You might want to brush up on the latest views and theories on quantum physics yourself, if that's the basis for the ghost or afterlife argument. I've seen nothing on the subject that gives any indication that the things that make you you would in any way be sustainable without a physical form. There's certainly far more evidence against such an idea than there is for, which is why faith is required to fill the gap between reality and how we'd like things to be.

The particular bio-electric elements of your brain that make up your memories, your decision making process, etc, etc, would probably not be magically beamed to heaven the moment you expire. Much like your physical body gradually deteriorates and changes form after death, it seems likely that the energy in your brain would do the same thing, unless you buy into this somewhat vague and fanciful concept of the "soul".

As for energy, the current that runs into your stereo and makes it play the music stored on your CDs has a very different effect when it's run into your kitchen blender instead, but there's no other universally magical component to it, and when it no longer runs into the stereo, isn't the music essentially dead? And doesn't the CD, and thus the music, eventually cease to exists when the CD one day rots and deteriorates? Btw, if you counter this with the claim that you took a back-up, I'm going to slap you.

Evolution is just a theory, which is why it's called Dawins Theory Of Evolution, we havent proved it yet. Sure science can say we evolved from monkeys because our DNA is so close. So why is there no human evolution now, why is there no half ape half man beats roaming about

Ironically, many scientists believe that George Bush was actually the missing link the theory of evolution required.

 

[sargie]

I for one do not think my life is pointless, I know my life has a purpose, I just havent found it yet.

Evolution is just a theory, which is why it's called Dawins Theory Of Evolution, we havent proved it yet. Sure science can say we evolved from monkeys because our DNA is so close. So why is there no human evolution now, why is there no half ape half man beats roaming about, why have humans stopped evolving, where is the proof that half man half ape beings existed. Or did we just go to sleep an ape and wake up a human, with no tails.

Yes we have bones and fossils of other types of humans, but nothing inbetween. Or maybe we evolved from fish, like some belive, then why is there still nothing inbetween.

We can se forms of evolution in other species, but not man.

And what happened to all of our strength apes are 4 times stornger than us, Thats a step backwards not forwards.

 

[Thommo]

mirc.net

dw.mirc.net#


#thommohawk: changes room title from ghosts to evolution#













.

 

[señor ding dong]

And what happened to all of our strength apes are 4 times stornger than us, Thats a step backwards not forwards.

Evolution isn't necessarily about what one might arbitrarily deem to be a step forward or backwards, it's about adapting. I do agree that it's a theory which so far has more than a few holes, but it's at least born out of a reality-based approach. I don't think scientists came up with this theory because the idea of not having evolved from hairy little feces-flinging, flea-picking critters would make them blow their own brains out. This is rational stuff, not fear-induced wishful thinking.

And for the record, evolution seems appropriate to the subject of ghosts. Surely going from a physical to a non-physical form constitutes some sort of evolution... or devolution, depending on your perspective.

 

[Utopie]

No. But I guess that's what makes the faithfuls so delightfully unique, and I guess it's no coincidence that they are the biggest consumers of firearms and ammunition.

And which even more people spend a lifetime trying desperately to make sense of.

As is evident from your own comments, and as ManOfScience accurately pointed out, it appears that the majority of the faithful are indeed faithful because of fear, and it's never been my experience that theories or conclusions born out of fear have much validity to them, particularly when based on nothing more substantial than fairy tales and wishful thinking of the sort that would probably get you branded a lunatic if uttered out loud in any other guise than "religion".

I can only speak for myself, of course, but the potential absence of an afterlife doesn't concern me in the slightest. In fact, if even half the people who believe they're going to heaven really are, it doesn't sound like a place I'd want to spend eternity. The whole concept of this blissful eternity strikes me as both arrogant and infantile at the same time.

You might want to brush up on the latest views and theories on quantum physics yourself, if that's the basis for the ghost or afterlife argument. I've seen nothing on the subject that gives any indication that the things that make you you would in any way be sustainable without a physical form. There's certainly far more evidence against such an idea than there is for, which is why faith is required to fill the gap between reality and how we'd like things to be.

The particular bio-electric elements of your brain that make up your memories, your decision making process, etc, etc, would probably not be magically beamed to heaven the moment you expire. Much like your physical body gradually deteriorates and changes form after death, it seems likely that the energy in your brain would do the same thing, unless you buy into this somewhat vague and fanciful concept of the "soul".

As for energy, the current that runs into your stereo and makes it play the music stored on your CDs has a very different effect when it's run into your kitchen blender instead, but there's no other universally magical component to it, and when it no longer runs into the stereo, isn't the music essentially dead? And doesn't the CD, and thus the music, eventually cease to exists when the CD one day rots and deteriorates? Btw, if you counter this with the claim that you took a back-up, I'm going to slap you.

Ironically, many scientists believe that George Bush was actually the missing link the theory of evolution required.

Mate, I've come across too many cynics in my life, and they are all largely the same. Very Earthbound people who they themselves are fearful of anything they can't claim any scientific evidence to, lol.

I always thought Scientology was the religion of cynics, not as I now know it to be, but, these people who put all their faith into the community of scientists and their 'evidence'. Funny how they all squable over their theories and can't internally agree on anything themselves - evolution being one.

I don't know mate. There are people reading this thread who have the evidence, myself being one, and you can't handle that because you can't touch it. That's the only fear on display here, your fear of your iron-clad beliefs being challenged. The likes of which make you feel comfortable and safe that everything in the world is categorised, labled, boxed off and theriosed with nothing left unexplained... What a boring world!!!

I think taking your outlook on life is the easy way out - personally. It would be so easy just to be flippent about life and paddle in the shallow rock pools you are encouraged to these days. Play keeping up with the Jones', strive so hard to get a faster car than Fred Blogs who I used to go school with, get a nice suit and prance around town on a Friday night thiking that everyone is looking at me and then go into the bogs and check my hair, roll into bed and do all again the next day, every day, until I die.

Get married, have kids, love feel the joy and pain of love only to know that when I am on my death bed all that love I gave and received will amount to a worthless dead end. Yeahhhh right mate, have a word....

Just for the record, I am far from scared of death, wasn't raised in Devon by a bunch of hippies or any other steriotype you want to scientificly box me off with.

I have all the evidence I need, and you can't take that away from me mate.

 

[nara]

why does there have to be ANYTHING to life? you'd shoot yourself? there's an example of people being scared of reality and fear of dying.

human arogance thinks we should have a higher purpose to our lives. there's no reason to life, we're here because of science and evolution.

Couldn't have put it better myself. :Clap:

OK - so you'd understand that everything is energy, and that everything vibrates. You'd also understand that energy never dies, it just changes form.

Think you need to swat up on your quantum physics mate, you're behind the times roud:

Sorry, but that reads likes an extract from some sort of "New Age" pamphlet.

 

[señor ding dong]

I don't know mate. There are people reading this thread who have the evidence, myself being one, and you can't handle that because you can touch it.

I can touch it? I'm not sure what you mean, but I'd be perfectly happy to yield, if you did indeed have evidence. In fact, it would be terrific if someone could indeed answer these unresolved questions about the supernatural.

That's the only fear on display here, your fear of your iron-clad beliefs being challenged.

I think you've misunderstood something. I don't actually align myself with any particular theory. I'm quite happy to just say "I don't know", and in my previous post, I specifically said I don't find the theory of evolution to be particularly iron-clad, but if someone wants to bring up quantum physics to support their views, I think it's important that they actually understand it.

Just for the record, I am far from scared of death

Well, not death as you see it, of course, but your comment quoted below paints a very clear picture.

"If I thought all there is to this world was materialist ego driven pursuits, then I would shoot myself in the head right now... Wouldn't you?"

I have all the evidence I need, and you can't take that away from me mate.

I can't take what you don't have, and the above is quite an ironic statement from someone who just claimed that not everything should be proven or iron-clad. That's the problem with belief in the supernatural. It's so poorly thought out and full of contradiction.

 

[Utopie]

Couldn't have put it better myself. :Clap:



Sorry, but that reads likes an extract from some sort of "New Age" pamphlet.

Lol, nah mate, that's science... Have you ever read anything about quantum physics? I don't just ocupy myself with estoterica.

"New Age" is just another lable, something to be flippent towards spiritual people. I think you'll see that cynics spend far more time thinking they are some how superior and snigger like children looking down their noses at the open minded. It's actually 'Old Age' mate, all this Science stuff is 'New age'.

I quote Albert EInstine: "Imagination is more important than knowledge"

 

[davidh]

nothing wrong with a little hope,

my wifeis a full believerme on the other hand i'm a little sceptical 50/50
show me some proof .....we watch all the most haunteds and all that sort of stuff but yet i'm stillnot convinced.........

do you do readings over the net???????....i've seen some of the wifes done over the net

like i say we allneed a litle hope in life.

the most haunted are bullshit
made to order mediumship

derek accora is a good medium but he has to make it look more for the tv
me and the wife have given message to the stars from coranation
street
we stud in for billy roberts and othe well know medium from liverpool

but sorry no i dont do reading over the net
a reading is a private thing

 

[nara]

Lol, nah mate, that's science... Have you ever read anything about quantum physics?

No, it's garbled science, and yes, I do have a pretty good grasp of Quantum Physics, although, as Niels Bohr said "If somebody tells you that they understand quantum mechanics, they're lying."

 

[davidh]

Digi, your lad probably had a vivid dream or has got a over active imagination which is healthy at his age.

and with the fob watch, did you see a death certificate, the bloke probably felt pressured to appease you.

Half of these mediums are just leeching of the most venerable, they are better off completing the grieving process and moving on with there lives imo.

i think his greaving had been over a long while it was 1936
this was about 7 yrs ago
and as he was a regular to the church he wasnt under any pressure
i did forget to mention that most of my work is in churches
which i get a fee
of about £6
this is to cover my transport to the chirch and most of the churches i covered was manchester

 

[Utopie]

I can touch it? I'm not sure what you mean, but I'd be perfectly happy to yield, if you did indeed have evidence. In fact, it would be terrific if someone could indeed answer these unresolved questions about the supernatural.

I think you've misunderstood something. I don't actually align myself with any particular theory. I'm quite happy to just say "I don't know", and in my previous post, I specifically said I don't find the theory of evolution to be particularly iron-clad, but if someone wants to bring up quantum physics to support their views, I think it's important that they actually understand it.

Well, not death as you see it, of course, but your comment quoted below paints a very clear picture.

"If I thought all there is to this world was materialist ego driven pursuits, then I would shoot myself in the head right now... Wouldn't you?"

I can't take what you don't have, and the above is quite an ironic statement from someone who just claimed that not everything should be proven or iron-clad. That's the problem with belief in the supernatural. It's so poorly thought out and full of contradiction.

I edited the post after you replied with "can't" - and various other comments... sorry... feel free to read the edit.

Both schools of thought will always exist, becasue we need each other. If we knew all the answers, then there would be no point in living - or maybe you can tell me the point?

It's funny how you can't grasp what I am saying about my killing myself if I thought there was nothing else to life, most cynics don't, but can't explain their desire to eat, shit and breath for 80 years only to completly seise existing at the end of it.

There is as much evidence for all this as you say there is against it... Life after Death experience studies, subtle energy studies, organ donna phenomena etc etc...

 

[nara]

It's funny how you can't grasp what I am saying about my killing myself if I thought there was nothing else to life, most cynics don't, but can't explain their desire to eat, shit and breath for 80 years only to completly seise existing at the end of it.

Eat, drink, and be merry; for tomorrow...............







(sorry mozr)

 

[Utopie]

No, it's garbled science, and yes, I do have a pretty good grasp of Quantum Physics, although, as Niels Bohr said "If somebody tells you that they understand quantum mechanics, they're lying."

Garbled, no, largely unknown, oh yes. So you are saying that science knows everything already, LOL, now that's some superiority complex.

Mate, some of the worlds greatest minds are working with it.

 

[davidh]

has anybody thought what life is
have ui looked at a body after passing
to see that all the worry lines have gone
it looks like a blank book
now my interpritation of it is the spark of life has gone from the body