Clone boxes destroyed by gemini

[pt-1]

I may be wrong, but this is an interesting theory.

DMM want greatest profit so go to China for production, rather than EU.

Chinese dodgy entrepreneurs then buy copies of tools/designs from company contracted to DMM.

DMM get bit on the arse, and throw dummy out of the pram.

And what about all the products that are actually manufactured in the UK or Europe/Germany

Don't you think these guys stop from copying them ?

They even clone cars ... BMW X5 or Mercedes Smart car ...

What is you excuse there ?

To all the people out there who bought a fake knowingly or not

DMM have the right to delete their stolen Property (Bootloader) that was installed illegally on copied Hardware.

Every honest buyer who has been affected by this step might get the shipping cost paid or another form of compensation, but we do not know this !!!!

Its is DMM's Software and they can do with it what they want when it is installed on stolen/illegal copied Hardware !

 

[laopai007]

I don't think if all company keep away from it. China still can clone, upgrade their techniques. (or may be you think they are clever enough they can develop without you). See, you train them, teach them.... blah blah .... if without all these do you think, they still can clone? if you say yes, I can only say nothing. come back EU, fight back.. consider the clone lose, you still earn the same..

for the car clone... I think it is a rumour : ) same as they clone nuclear bomb. If they can clone a BMW with the same quality like dreambox clone, I can only say well, they are good enough themselves, they just need the brand.

And what about all the products that are actually manufactured in the UK or Europe/Germany

Don't you think these guys stop from copying them ?

They even clone cars ... BMW X5 or Mercedes Smart car ...

What is you excuse there ?

To all the people out there who bought a fake knowingly or not

DMM have the right to delete their stolen Property (Bootloader) that was installed illegally on copied Hardware.

Every honest buyer who has been affected by this step might get the shipping cost paid or another form of compensation, but we do not know this !!!!

Its is DMM's Software and they can do with it what they want when it is installed on stolen/illegal copied Hardware !

 

[pt-1]

I don't think if all company keep away from it. China still can clone, upgrade their techniques. (or may be you think they are clever enough they can develop without you). See, you train them, teach them.... blah blah .... if without all these do you think, they still can clone? if you say yes, I can only say nothing. come back EU, fight back.. consider the clone lose, you still earn the same..

for the car clone... I think it is a rumour : ) same as they clone nuclear bomb. If they can clone a BMW with the same quality like dreambox clone, I can only say well, they are good enough themselves, they just need the brand.

BMW Clone: http://www.flickr.com/photos/architektur/1360575760/

Smart Clone:

We are talking about cloning but they are nto 100% copies but still the billions Car Makers invest developing a porduct or technologie and someone just copies it ...

 

[ruprect]

surely if you purchased a box that you thought was legit and used it to be fta channels, you are not doing any thing wrong as it is your right to find a unit that suits your needs at an afordable cost. but some one creates a software package to delibritly cause harm to your equipment, that my friends is wrong. shame on those responsible

Thing is DMM own the rights to the bootloader. So it is sort of the same as being in possesion of stolen property. You bought from a person dealing in "stolen goods", you are still liable if you bought a nicked telly down the market from the same guy, and did not know it was stolen.

I had not heard of fully cloned cars before, but certainly counterfeit parts are out there. Our (EU) based electronics company got a load of counterfeit Bussmann fuses in and we had massive costs changing them. Places can use manufacturers tools/moulds to do cheap castings of parts. These could be going in cars and cause death upon failure.

 

[Davido123]

am I still missing the point here??

DMM GAVE for NOTHING/freely....the drivers to the Gemini project coders, which is an Open source project and as such allowed to be changed used freely in any way. the end user sees fit.

I may be wrong, but like other images is gemini not GNU General Public License, you can read about it here:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

A quick paste from it is:

"The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users. We, the Free Software Foundation, use the GNU General Public License for most of our software; it applies also to any other work released this way by its authors. You can apply it to your programs, too."

I not saying DMM dont have copyright on the bootloader. I would like to see evidence, but even if giving the benifit of the doubt. THEY gave it to an opensource project to be shared and used in however the enduser see fit.

Now reading some forums it appears this bootloader delteion has also effected Sat boxes which are not labled or branded in any way to DMM. The manufactuers of these "new" boxes have decided to use open source software on them...why wouldnt they as its freely availble to everyone.

Now the end result now is that manufactuers boxes DUE to the gemini software, maliously and with intent, deleted the bootloader of boxes which have nothing to do with DMM.

The liablity could be argued to lay with DMM for making the virus. They released rights to the bootloader once they gave it to an open source project for free sharing.

Gemin team could also be liable, even though they have a "we take no responcibility for what our software does to your equipment"

Alas, no other company that I know off has went such a malious route.

Rant over

 

[mozr]

And what about all the products that are actually manufactured in the UK or Europe/Germany

Don't you think these guys stop from copying them ?

They even clone cars ... BMW X5 or Mercedes Smart car ...

What is you excuse there ?

I don't have one. I probably left my head up above the parapet with my theory. I'll except the rib kick. However, I still think going into the vipers den of copyright theft probably made them more visible. Again, just a theory.

To all the people out there who bought a fake knowingly or not

DMM have the right to delete their stolen Property (Bootloader) that was installed illegally on copied Hardware.

Every honest buyer who has been affected by this step might get the shipping cost paid or another form of compensation, but we do not know this !!!!

Its is DMM's Software and they can do with it what they want when it is installed on stolen/illegal copied Hardware !

Firstly IT IS NOT 'stolen' hardware. It is stolen intellectual property.

Ok. Here we go. BsKyB are allowed to stop you from using your own hardware to watch their subscription channels. Because they have invested money in satellite TV, they have decided to only allow the use of their own proprietary hardware. They have the right to do so legally.

If you disagree with that statement you are being directly hypocritical. You know why? Because if you believe that DMM should be allowed to stop people from using their software with stolen intellectual property, then you have to abide by Sky's terms of service, because they are in place to protect their interests as a business, just like DMM.

I know you are sticking up for your friends, and that is a gallant gesture. So lets agree to disagree, k?

 

[wiggy9906]

am I still missing the point here??

DMM GAVE for NOTHING/freely....the drivers to the Gemini project coders, which is an Open source project and as such allowed to be changed used freely in any way. the end user sees fit.

I may be wrong, but like other images is gemini not GNU General Public License, you can read about it here:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

A quick paste from it is:

"The licenses for most software and other practical works are designed to take away your freedom to share and change the works. By contrast, the GNU General Public License is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and change all versions of a program--to make sure it remains free software for all its users. We, the Free Software Foundation, use the GNU General Public License for most of our software; it applies also to any other work released this way by its authors. You can apply it to your programs, too."

I not saying DMM dont have copyright on the bootloader. I would like to see evidence, but even if giving the benifit of the doubt. THEY gave it to an opensource project to be shared and used in however the enduser see fit.

Now reading some forums it appears this bootloader delteion has also effected Sat boxes which are not labled or branded in any way to DMM. The manufactuers of these "new" boxes have decided to use open source software on them...why wouldnt they as its freely availble to everyone.

Now the end result now is that manufactuers boxes DUE to the gemini software, maliously and with intent, deleted the bootloader of boxes which have nothing to do with DMM.

The liablity could be argued to lay with DMM for making the virus. They released rights to the bootloader once they gave it to an open source project for free sharing.

Gemin team could also be liable, even though they have a "we take no responcibility for what our software does to your equipment"

Alas, no other company that I know off has went such a malious route.

Rant over

I don't agree with what DMM have done, but to clarify, the bootloader is not part of a image. The Dreambox is sold with it preinstalled on the DMM hardware. Other box manufactures ripped the bootloader and added it to their hardware.

Wiggy

 

[ruprect]

Firstly IT IS NOT 'stolen' hardware. It is stolen intellectual property.

I think he was saying the same thing... read it again

DMM have the right to delete their stolen Property (Bootloader) that was installed illegally on copied Hardware

but to clarify, the bootloader is not part of a image.

From the little I have read I thought this was the case, and so...

They released rights to the bootloader

I presume this never happened.

 

[tradmusicman]

Get a load of this. For Irish members, this article was in the Evening Herald today about UpeeC crackdown on our so called illigal box's. Looks like DMM are not the only ones who have an eye on dodgy boxes. Zoom in on it to reveal. Hope I've attached it ok.


Tradman

 

[glic83]

they had a similar articale in the star today also

 

[tradmusicman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is illigil about owning 1 of these box's. Surely its classed as just another server running linux. Never mind the software thats running on it.

 

[trackermut]

This thread was a good open discussion on the clone dm500,

And so... To backup post from wiggy and rupert,, there totally correct, the bootloader aint part of your image. All the 'virus' first and last time il use that word, because its not a virus, its a clever flash and bootloader wipe.
So how is that open source? no image changes your bootloader on your dreambox. its been there all the time,
So in conclusion again, your still trying to find a way out the fact, they have done nothing illegal, they are protecting there dealers as much as thereselves with the action... and the comparisions to other large companys is a joke, as dont know any other company that wouldnt move in such a way if it that bad in this type of cloning situation...the blame CANT be shifted from the guys who sold the clones,, the guys who use clone boxes with dmm bootloaders( and yes that does include the Eagle box etc.. ) ,, time people woke up and realised thats whos doing and have been doing the duping.

 

[velvitjester69]

note to clone users,do not use gemini images and when you want to try a new image,make sure someone else with a clone has checked first

 

[trackermut]

note to clone users,do not use gemini images and when you want to try a new image,make sure someone else with a clone has checked first

#

Glad too see now also want to kill all clones! :Clap::Clap:

 

[sharps]

i see that a fixed image is out of the same clone bomb image, does anyone know how this was done?
want to fix the one we have here on dw with au mct, as no other image out there can do this, unless some one knows different?
been trying to get the files out of the au mct one but no luck!

 

[velvitjester69]

#

Glad too see now also want to kill all clones! :Clap::Clap:

no,I want to make sure my clone is working A+,so i let someone else check first

Why would I wan to kill clones?they cost half the price.

Dream also have the hard prspect of selling to a market that are already too cheap to pay for tv,so if a cheaper box thats identical is available that does the same thing...................

i see that a fixed image is out of the same clone bomb image, does anyone know how this was done?
want to fix the one we have here on dw with au mct, as no other image out there can do this, unless some one knows different?
been trying to get the files out of the au mct one but no luck!

What are you saying,what other images have the clone bomb?

 

[TravelHead]

Channel 4 had a 2 part docu a month or two ago called "The Fake Trade" focussed on China. It gave a reasonable overview of the industry.

If you are going to do business in China expect this to happen. Tacit consent exists for this side of the industry. They’ll probably only take it seriously when it is Chinese companies on the receiving end.

Part 1 can be found on google video

 

[sharps]

no,I want to make sure my clone is working A+,so i let someone else check first

Why would I wan to kill clones?they cost half the price.

Dream also have the hard prspect of selling to a market that are already too cheap to pay for tv,so if a cheaper box thats identical is available that does the same thing...................




What are you saying,what other images have the clone bomb?

no, as i said "a fixed version of the clone bomb image" ie the image that gemini released, someone has found the file/exe that kills the flash on your 500. would be great to know what and where so i can use the gemini 4.31 thats here on dw, it au mct and redlight etc

 

[pt-1]

I don't have one. I probably left my head up above the parapet with my theory. I'll except the rib kick. However, I still think going into the vipers den of copyright theft probably made them more visible. Again, just a theory.



Firstly IT IS NOT 'stolen' hardware. It is stolen intellectual property.

Ok. Here we go. BsKyB are allowed to stop you from using your own hardware to watch their subscription channels. Because they have invested money in satellite TV, they have decided to only allow the use of their own proprietary hardware. They have the right to do so legally.

If you disagree with that statement you are being directly hypocritical. You know why? Because if you believe that DMM should be allowed to stop people from using their software with stolen intellectual property, then you have to abide by Sky's terms of service, because they are in place to protect their interests as a business, just like DMM.

I know you are sticking up for your friends, and that is a gallant gesture. So lets agree to disagree, k?

The Bootloader is like the Bios of your PC !

This Bios (Bootloader) on the DMM is not GNU ! It is DMM's property and has been stolen/copied
The Image is Open Source (GNU) but the Hardware still needs drivers and they are again closed source !

The Comparrison with BSlyB is a different one, I am if I would use other Technology violating their Contract and they can cancel their Contract with me but depending on what technology I use to do so I am not violating any copyright law.

 

[mozr]

I think he was saying the same thing... read it again

I was referring to his last sentence:

Its is DMM's Software and they can do with it what they want when it is installed on stolen/illegal copied Hardware !

Which syntactically implies that the hardware is both illegal and stolen hence the slash.

But I take your point. I think sometimes his (pt-1's) grasp of English sometimes falters (although I must admit it is very good most of the time).

I wish you would respond to my logical proof that pt-1 would like his cake, and then to eat it regarding my BskyB comparison. Basically because DMM is a small business started by friends of his, he wishes to apply different rules to them than for instance the position he takes against sky's monopoly and their terms of service. Yes I am comparing copyright with a contract, but they are still both articles protected by law, that both companies use to defend their investment.

The pigs are more equal than others it seems.