Scotland 'Yes' vote means leaving pound.

[Joe1989]

I dont even think Scotland would qualify for the Euro zone tbh, maybe they could take the BitCoin as their national currency pmsl

We are allready in the eurozone.

Have a read of this: 302 Moved Temporarily

That a UK parliament paper and one of the statements in it are:

"As someone who spent a total of 14 years working in Scotland, I had several discussions with SNP politicians as to whether Scotland would automatically remain a member of the EU if it became independent. Without getting involved in the niceties of State succession, a simple answer used to be that a new Treaty would have to be negotiated to deal with issues eg of representation and voting rights. However, it was suggested in the first section of this Evidence that the Reform Treaty considerably reduces the need for future Treaty amendments with regard to these issues, by removing specific numbers from the Treaty texts. To that extent, the Reform Treaty may be said to strengthen the arguments in favour of Scotland automatically remaining a member of the EU if it were to become independent."

"The creation of a new Scottish state would – if only formally – change the conditions for operation and application of the institutional and financial provisions of
European Union. This cannot be over-emphasised: independence would be adding a new Member State to the EU and this would require formal treaty changes according to the specific rules of EU accession rather than the general and vague rules of international law on succession to multi-lateral treaties. Negotiations would not be about the principle of membership but about the practicalities and details involved. To illustrate, the European Union is premised upon the existence of a particular number of Member States. Voting rights are weighted and numbers of representatives are allocated on the basis of the size of the state. Amendments to those provisions require negotiation of an amending treaty and its subsequent ratification by all the existing Member States and by the newly acceding state."

All the Yes scotland and SNP have ever said would be that we would nogiatate our existence within the EU And a UK government paper supports this.

 

[little_pob]

We are allready in the eurozone.

Have a read of this: 302 Moved Temporarily

That a UK parliament paper and one of the statements in it are:

"As someone who spent a total of 14 years working in Scotland, I had several discussions with SNP politicians as to whether Scotland would automatically remain a member of the EU if it became independent. Without getting involved in the niceties of State succession, a simple answer used to be that a new Treaty would have to be negotiated to deal with issues eg of representation and voting rights. However, it was suggested in the first section of this Evidence that the Reform Treaty considerably reduces the need for future Treaty amendments with regard to these issues, by removing specific numbers from the Treaty texts. To that extent, the Reform Treaty may be said to strengthen the arguments in favour of Scotland automatically remaining a member of the EU if it were to become independent."

"The creation of a new Scottish state would – if only formally – change the conditions for operation and application of the institutional and financial provisions of
European Union. This cannot be over-emphasised: independence would be adding a new Member State to the EU and this would require formal treaty changes according to the specific rules of EU accession rather than the general and vague rules of international law on succession to multi-lateral treaties. Negotiations would not be about the principle of membership but about the practicalities and details involved. To illustrate, the European Union is premised upon the existence of a particular number of Member States. Voting rights are weighted and numbers of representatives are allocated on the basis of the size of the state. Amendments to those provisions require negotiation of an amending treaty and its subsequent ratification by all the existing Member States and by the newly acceding state."

All the Yes scotland and SNP have ever said would be that we would nogiatate our existence within the EU And a UK government paper supports this.

The EU's opinion on automatic entry seems to differ: Scottish independence: Spain blocks Alex Salmond's hopes for EU transition | Politics | The Guardian

 

[Joe1989]

The EU's opinion on automatic entry seems to differ: Scottish independence: Spain blocks Alex Salmond's hopes for EU transition | Politics | The Guardian

Of course it does. Spain wouldnt be helping the Uk out would if it is said come on in!

 

[eon]

Of course it does. Spain wouldnt be helping the Uk out would if it is said come on in!

Why would Spain help us? We are in the midst of a massive argument with them over Gibraltar. Im sure if they help Scotland break up the UK that would give them greater claim to Gibraltar? So it would be in their interest to have you.

 

[little_pob]

Of course it does. Spain wouldnt be helping the Uk out would if it is said come on in!

Yes, it would look sour grapes if the UK rejected Scotland's entry.

But Spain's reasons aren't selfless - they'd expect the UK, however the vote goes, to veto entry of Catalonia to the EU if it ever seceded from Spain.

 

[Firemouth]

Why would Spain help us? We are in the midst of a massive argument with them over Gibraltar. Im sure if they help Scotland break up the UK that would give them greater claim to Gibraltar? So it would be in their interest to have you.

Again no real grasp of what you are talking about. it seems you only read what you want to not what's written.

Oh wait..... everybody already knew that already.

as you cant be bothered to learn anything:
Spain will, likely, to object to Scotland's entry into the EU, because it will set a president which MAY allow Catalonia to do the same.
nothing to do with helping the UK.
but then everybody. knew that already. except you apparently.
still struggling with your spelling i see.

 

[danforth]

Again no real grasp of what you are talking about. it seems you only read what you want to not what's written.

Oh wait..... everybody already knew that already.

as you cant be bothered to learn anything:
Spain will, likely, to object to Scotland's entry into the EU, because it will set a president which MAY allow Catalonia to do the same.
nothing to do with helping the UK.
but then everybody. knew that already. except you apparently.
still struggling with your spelling i see.

"still struggling with your spelling i see"................ People in glass houses?:LOL:

 

[mdt]

im english but would prefere scotland to stay in the uk as i feel we are stronger together,regards mdt

 

[Firemouth]

"still struggling with your spelling i see"................ People in glass houses?:LOL:

yep guilty as charged. I even checked before posting, D'ho.:Mad2:

One off though, in my case.

@Joe1989, you say that Scotland can have the Pound even if the UK says no.
How so?

I confess I have an open mind here (best characterised as "not giving a toss" But on the whole I follow the view of mdt), Its seems that it's up to the Scots (not the Whiskey cough).
so why are we English/Welsh even getting into discussions on it?

surly, if the Scots can have the Pound is up to the Bank of England and the Chancellor.
not something that needs the approval or participation of the great unwashed.
especially considering the vast majority neither understand, nor want to understand the intricacy involved.
but only by understanding them, could you make any determination, either way.

 

[Joe1989]

Hi FIremoth,

Its a bit like Argentina use the USA dollar. Its a floating currency so it means anyone can effectively trade it.

There are disadvantages in that there would need to be additional things put in place like a grantor but when you look at our economy and value then its easy to see that that wont be a problem - Also after today's speech from AS consider that we would have no debt if the assets (Including the pound) are not willing shared.

Bare in mind though, this will cost the UK as much if not more than it does to scotland if they refuse a currency union with us - that was suggested and proven by a number of different experts as the senciable option and as a result i think that int he event of a yes vote common scene will prevail.

On the EU issue you need to remember there are all sorts of behind the scene politics going on here, DC has unboudblety gotten other member states to object to scotland being independent but can you honestly see them keeping it up if we get it? Again pritty sure common scene will prevail! Although i relies this isn't an absolute answer and unfortunately that's what the better together campaign is all about - trying to make sure you are worried into a no vote!

 

[Firemouth]

Hi FIremoth,

Its a bit like Argentina use the USA dollar. Its a floating currency so it means anyone can effectively trade it.

There are disadvantages in that there would need to be additional things put in place like a grantor but when you look at our economy and value then its easy to see that that wont be a problem - Also after today's speech from AS consider that we would have no debt if the assets (Including the pound) are not willing shared.

Bare in mind though, this will cost the UK as much if not more than it does to scotland if they refuse a currency union with us - that was suggested and proven by a number of different experts as the senciable option and as a result i think that int he event of a yes vote common scene will prevail.

On the EU issue you need to remember there are all sorts of behind the scene politics going on here, DC has unboudblety gotten other member states to object to scotland being independent but can you honestly see them keeping it up if we get it? Again pritty sure common scene will prevail! Although i relies this isn't an absolute answer and unfortunately that's what the better together campaign is all about - trying to make sure you are worried into a no vote!

Cheers man, with you now on the Pound thing, fair comment.
I do feel you are wrong on the EU, though.
lol, it won't even help if the UK comes onside with the Scots, might hurt though.

Anyway, should this have been sorted out (in principal) before the campaign even started?
this and the currency issue seem to me vital before you can vote.

I do like the proposed new Union Flag though (yes I know its only one of many)

 

[Him Her]

Erm, small point, the proposed flag. After a few bevvies looking at that is gonna make most feel quite ill!

 

[buzzer]

is the uk proposing a merger with Germany? lol

plus

might look like:

 

[eon]

Again no real grasp of what you are talking about. it seems you only read what you want to not what's written.

Oh wait..... everybody already knew that already.

as you cant be bothered to learn anything:
Spain will, likely, to object to Scotland's entry into the EU, because it will set a president which MAY allow Catalonia to do the same.
nothing to do with helping the UK.
but then everybody. knew that already. except you apparently.
still struggling with your spelling i see.

Well for starters the president has ALREADY been set with the UK allowing and recognizing Scotlands right to vote on independence. Unlike Spain that does not recognize Catalan's right to vote and will not accept any vote passed by Catalonia people when they do vote. Spain has said it will use all force necessary to stop any Independence as the quote below explains,

"The state is prepared for any scenario that may occur. The law will be enforced. There will be no referendum that calls into question the sovereignty of the Spanish people. There will be no independence of Spanish territory while I'm president [of the government],"

Mariano Rajoy

You may think this just the Spanish prime minister but he has broad support across all party's, then you have to think about France? Will they also allow a vote for regions Catalonians see as theirs? We know that is not gonna happen and i think we can say it wont happen in Spain for the foreseeable future.

So is this a big upset for Spain when Scotland piss off, no i don't think so because the president has already been set.

Next Spain has NO love for the UK and would nothing better than to see the UK's power diminished in anyway that would benefit their claim over Gibraltar as would Argentina to see their repatriation of the Falklands. And hey ho would you believe it,

Argentina and Spain 'to team up over Falklands and Gibraltar' - Telegraph
Argentina embarrassed as Spain DENIES pact to force UK to leave Falklands and Gibraltar | World | News | Daily Express

So please don't tell me i don't know what i am going on about, if you want to do character assassination on me please get your shit together and get it right.

And for the spelling part, really? Is that the best you can do

 

[Him Her]

Watches...

 

[little_pob]

is the uk proposing a merger with Germany? lol

plus

might look like:

Belgium surely?

Oh wait, isn't Brussels in Belgium

 

[Firemouth]

Well for starters the president has ALREADY been set with the UK allowing and recognizing Scotlands right to vote on independence. Unlike Spain that does not recognize Catalan's right to vote and will not accept any vote passed by Catalonia people when they do vote. Spain has said it will use all force necessary to stop any Independence as the quote below explains,



You may think this just the Spanish prime minister but he has broad support across all party's, then you have to think about France? Will they also allow a vote for regions Catalonians see as theirs? We know that is not gonna happen and i think we can say it wont happen in Spain for the foreseeable future.

So is this a big upset for Spain when Scotland piss off, no i don't think so because the president has already been set.

Next Spain has NO love for the UK and would nothing better than to see the UK's power diminished in anyway that would benefit their claim over Gibraltar as would Argentina to see their repatriation of the Falklands. And hey ho would you believe it,

Argentina and Spain 'to team up over Falklands and Gibraltar' - Telegraph
Argentina embarrassed as Spain DENIES pact to force UK to leave Falklands and Gibraltar | World | News | Daily Express

So please don't tell me i don't know what i am going on about, if you want to do character assassination on me please get your shit together and get it right.

And for the spelling part, really? Is that the best you can do

Honestly man you live in a dream world, worse still it's on that some else has told you to have!

Seriously, you think the President (right one this time) of the EU does not know what he is talking about?
more poignantly, do you really think that you know more about it than him? (though he only alluded to the problem)

The Spanish will do NOTHING that would assist the independence of Catalonia.
And seeding to Scotland's request for entry, would be just that.

Oh god, the Region of Catalonia in exclusive in Spain.
They are not asking independence for Catalan people just the region of Catalonia.
France couldn't give a hump. because with an independent Catalonia, they already have a country.
And you really should learn the difference between a NEWSPAPER, and or, political propaganda artificial and FACT.

 

[Firemouth]

Hi FIremoth,

Its a bit like Argentina use the USA dollar. Its a floating currency so it means anyone can effectively trade it.

There are disadvantages in that there would need to be additional things put in place like a grantor but when you look at our economy and value then its easy to see that that wont be a problem - Also after today's speech from AS consider that we would have no debt if the assets (Including the pound) are not willing shared.

Bare in mind though, this will cost the UK as much if not more than it does to scotland if they refuse a currency union with us - that was suggested and proven by a number of different experts as the senciable option and as a result i think that int he event of a yes vote common scene will prevail.

On the EU issue you need to remember there are all sorts of behind the scene politics going on here, DC has unboudblety gotten other member states to object to scotland being independent but can you honestly see them keeping it up if we get it? Again pritty sure common scene will prevail! Although i relies this isn't an absolute answer and unfortunately that's what the better together campaign is all about - trying to make sure you are worried into a no vote!

Forgive the double post, I'll deal with the thread now.

If you just adopt the Pound, you will not have currency union.
Salmon does not want the Pound per say but the monetary union.

Thing is you won't even debt free.
As you will need to borrow from day one and for several years, just to keep the country going. even taking into account gas and oil revenue.

Please, Please I'm not arguing (I'm largely ambivalent of the outcome) I'm just trying to work through the possibility's. as I would if I were amongst the electorate.

You know what, i foresee disaster.
I honestly believe the First Minister and his pals are not really up to the job.
They have not though of anything except Monterey Union.
Even the best made "A" plan, needs a "B" plan backup.
The lack on said "backup" does not inspire me with to confidence.

Perhaps i have not done enough research.
But in a very short time of looking in depth at this.
To use a Gridiron analogy, your Fullback may make the yards, but there is a good chance he will fumble.

Independence may well be the best thing for Scotland. I'm just not sure this lot are up to it.
However if the vote is YES, I'll be happy if I'm wrong.

is the uk proposing a merger with Germany? lol

plus

might look like:

You aint seen nothing mate

 

[eon]

Honestly man you live in a dream world, worse still it's on that some else has told you to have!

Seriously, you think the President (right one this time) of the EU does not know what he is talking about?
more poignantly, do you really think that you know more about it than him? (though he only alluded to the problem)

The Spanish will do NOTHING that would assist the independence of Catalonia.
And seeding to Scotland's request for entry, would be just that.

Oh god, the Region of Catalonia in exclusive in Spain.
They are not asking independence for Catalan people just the region of Catalonia.
France couldn't give a hump. because with an independent Catalonia, they already have a country.
And you really should learn the difference between a NEWSPAPER, and or, political propaganda artificial and FACT.

What are you going on about?

The president of the EU 'José Manuel Barroso' has said 'Scotland joining EU would be difficult' which i totally agree i have not argued otherwise??????? So no i dont know better than him. Is that cleared up for you?

Why would the Spanish not do anything? The president of Spain has already said

"The state is prepared for any scenario that may occur. The law will be enforced. There will be no referendum that calls into question the sovereignty of the Spanish people. There will be no independence of Spanish territory while I'm president [of the government],"

Mariano Rajoy

So with that logic what president would he scared of setting when he wont be giving the Catalonian people a say on independence in the first place ffs. The president has already been set, the UK has allowed a referendum giving hope to the Catalonian cause. But from the statement above that wont be happening any time soon.

And for Catalonian independence i will refer to the wiki

The Catalan independence or separatism (Catalan: Independentisme català; Eastern Catalan: [indəpəndənˈtizmə kətəˈɫa], Western Catalan: [independenˈtizme kataˈla]) movement is a political movement, derived from Catalan nationalism, which supports the independence of Catalonia or the Catalan countries from Spain and France.

Take note of the last few words Spain and France. Once they ave got what they want off Spain and setting a president whats to stop the french regions asking for the same.

So on that note the Catalonian people WONT be getting a referendum, or a legally binding one. Simples.

And you really should learn the difference between a NEWSPAPER, and or, political propaganda artificial and FACT.

Blah d blah d blah and you are some expert? please pssssssss