Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E (Unknown Beam?)

[Zorch]

Hi again all,

I'm really confused as to which 'Downlink Beam' is actually being used to send the signal for reception of the following transponder/channels...?

Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E

10.832 V [8876] 5/6 DVB-S2 [8PSK] 18.0 Mbps [Unknown Beam?]

Harmonic Package (Conax)

Record Int'l Europa [VPID 1011/APID 1012/PPID 1011] Enc
RTP Int'l Portugal [VPID 1021/APID 1022/PPID 1021] Enc
RTP Africa Portugal [VPID 1031/APID 1032/PPID 1031] Enc
TVM 2 Mozambique [VPID 1041/APID 1042/PPID 1041] Enc
TIM Mozambique [VPID 1051/APID 1052/PPID 1051] Enc
TV Record Mozambique [VPID 1061/APID 1062/PPID 1061] Enc
Gungu Televisao Portugal [VPID 1071/APID 1072/PPID 1071] Enc
MGM Channel Portugal [VPID 1081/APID 1082/PPID 1081] Enc
Soico TV Mozambique [VPID 1091/APID 1092/PPID 1091] Enc
Top TV Mozambique [VPID 1101/APID 1102/PPID 1101] Enc
TVI 24 Portugal [VPID 1111/APID 1112/PPID 1111] Enc
TVI Int'l Portugal [VPID 1121/APID 1122/PPID 1121] Enc
Afro Music Espana [VPID 1131/APID 1132/PPID 1131] Enc


The Official Eutelsat Downlink Beams & Coverage Areas/Footprints

EUTELSAT 10A satellite - downlink coverages - Eutelsat


FlySat lists the beam as 'E10A' (not E10A Wide)

FlySat Eutelsat 10A @ 10° East Beams


KingOfSat lists the beam as 'Europe'

Reception Reports - KingOfSat


Lyngsat lists the beam as 'Wide'

Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E - LyngSat Maps


SatBeams lists the beam as 'SAfrica'

SatBeams - Satellite Coverage Maps - Sat Footprint Eutelsat 10A (E10A, W2A, Eutelsat W2A)


If the FlySat map is to be believed... reception of this transponder should be VERY EASY with a 60-75cm dish.

If the KingOfSat map is to be believed... reception of this transponder should be FAIRLY EASY with a 80-90cm dish.

If the Lyngsat map is to be believed... reception of this transponder should be VERY EASY with a 60-75cm dish.

Well that can't be right because I'm using a Fibo 120cm x 135cm Gregorian Dish an Inverto Black Pro C120 LNB with a TM 5402 HD CI+ Super+ and I'm only just able to achieve a signal lock on this transponder... also I can only achieve the signal lock from about 10.30am onwards...

Below you can see my current (stable) Signal Strength/Signal Quality readings on this transponder... however if the Signal Quality drops below 70% then the signal lock is lost... and sometimes it can take a while for the receiver to re-acquire it...

TM 5402 HD CI+ Super+
Signal Strength 97%
Signal Quality 73%

Finally... if the SatBeams map is to be believed... then reception of this transponder should be ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for anyone outside of Southern Africa... lol


I can think of only three possible explanations...

1/ The signal IS coming from the Downlink Beam as stated by FlySat/KingOfSat/Lyngsat... but the signal is VERY WEAK.

2/ The problem lies somewhere within MY OWN SATELLITE SETUP (Dish/LNB/Receiver).

3/ As stated in the title of this thread... there's an UNKNOWN BEAM in operation.


Has anyone else got any ideas...?

I've attached a few pictures below for anyone who's interested...


Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[saj1985]

i've got a generic 90cm solid dish with inverto ultra black lnb,
and i cant get a sniff on any of those channels lol

flysat etc must be very wrong about the beam lol

 

[mdt]

i think those channels/txp,s in the 10.700 to 10.950 band employ a different beam or the sat operator has ajusted the downlink dish on the bird towards africa and away from europe. i too only get the said transponder now and again and the ORTC txp varies from 40% sq to 65% sq at different times of the day,regards mdt

 

[saj1985]

i think those channels/txp,s in the 10.700 to 10.950 band employ a different beam or the sat operator has ajusted the downlink dish on the bird towards africa and away from europe. i too only get the said transponder now and again and the ORTC txp varies from 40% sq to 65% sq at different times of the day,regards mdt

i forgot about that one,
i do receive ORTC, at about 34% at the moment

 

[Zorch]

Hi again all,

Apologies... not an intentional double posting but...

I've just posted the majority of the following as a new thread in the Technomate (Standard) receivers section... but I then realised it's relevance to this thread also because the transponder/frequency (below) resides within the 10.700 GHz ~ 10.950 GHz band in question...

I noticed a new transponder/frequency had been found on a Blind Scan about 5 days ago and the download from this transponder/frequency produced a feed/channel... it's still active today and I've got no idea how long it's been active before I came across it... so it may actually be a proper channel... however the feed/channel is behaving rather strangely... I really don't know what's going on with it...?

The picture is pixelating heavily and there is no sound on the feed/channel either... and the only reference I can find for this frequency with exactly the same symbol rate is an Internet/Data stream...??

View attachment 75418(click on image to enlarge)

FlySat Eutelsat 10A @ 10° East

Thanks to FlySat

Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E

10.748 V [4000] 5/6 DVB-S2 [8PSK] ACM/VCM [E10A Wide Beam]

Internet/Data Stream

Feed ID: EN8000 [VPID 4031/APID 4032/PPID 4031] FTA

TM 5402 HD CI+ Super+
Signal Strength 97%
Signal Quality 92%

The feed/channel/data stream has stayed exactly the same the whole time I have been monitoring it... i.e. showing TLN Network (Mexico)...this channel is only available on...

Eutelsat 36B at 36.0°E (DSTV Africa)
Intelsat 11 at 43.1°W (Televisa Networks)

TLN Network - LyngSat

TLN Network - LyngSat Address

If it is the actual Mexican TV Channel that is being streamed... it'd be nice to get it working properly... if that's possible...

Any ideas guys...?

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[mdt]

cant get a lock here although only using TD110,regards mdt

 

[Zorch]

Hi again all,

I've been doing a bit of digging... and I wonder if this could explain things...

Quote from: Gunter's Space Page

Satellite: Eutelsat W2A → Eutelsat 10A

The 12-meter-diameter S-band antenna aboard the Eutelsat W2A satellite has suffered an anomaly that prevents its ability to provide service across Europe as required by its regulatory license.

Source: Eutelsat W2A → Eutelsat 10A

Thanks to: Gunter Dirk Krebs

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[mdt]

is that refering to its ability to provide s-band coverage 2-4ghz across europe? or the entire payload s,c and Ku. personally i think they have ajusted the dish that downlinks 10.7 to 10.95 or it isnt as powerfull or it employs a widerbeam footprint. i guess the only way we will know is ask eutelsat directly,regards mdt

 

[Zorch]

Hi again mdt,

I was under the impression that the S-Band antenna on this bird was designed to be two-way... for the reception of/re-transmission of satellite signals... if the S-Band antenna is receiving a weak/weaker signal from certain ground stations... would I be correct in thinking that this would then have a 'knock-on effect' and thereby affect the strength of the re-transmitted signal via the satellites' Ku-Band Beam...?

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[Merliin]

The S band antenna was damaged on deployment so no S band service,

The 12-meter-diameter S-band antenna aboard the Eutelsat W2A satellite has suffered an anomaly that prevents its ability to provide service across Europe as required by its regulatory license.

Eutelsat

 

[digi247]

Referring to Post #5 from Zorch and the feed channel the parameter is ACM/VCM which you would need a Sat PC card able to properly decode this information, as i am now back in action with my 1.2m and just back from holiday i will give this a go later with my TBS6925 card and let you know the outcome, if i can pick it up that is

 

[digi247]

Update from Post #5 i scanned in the EN8000 channel and get a good stable lock of around 90% on the 5402 but as zorch reported the channel picture/sound breaks up but is fine on the TBS6925 card probably due to it being able to decode the ACM/VCM stream




Also thanks to zorch on post #1 i also get all the channels listed at around a steady 80% quality

 

[cappuccino99]

Had a quick look at that data feed EN8000 on 10.748 V 4000 5/6, it was on/off raining but measured 93% quality on a TM5402HD on a 1m offset North West when it cleared for a while. It looks very strong but it's got such a high breakup threshold level of just under 80% on a 5402 if you nudge off sat, that it's quite low margin, I think you need about 77-78% to see it.

 

[digi247]

The EN8000 channel will never work correctly on any receiver that is not equipped with ACM/VCM standard as i stated earlier this plays absolutely fine on my TBS6925 PC Sat Card which has this standard built in

 

[cappuccino99]

The EN8000 channel will never work correctly on any receiver that is not equipped with ACM/VCM standard as i stated earlier this plays absolutely fine on my TBS6925 PC Sat Card which has this standard built in

I know & that 'could' effect the break up level on a receiver that isn't fully equipped for that modulation but newer clever dvb-s2 stuff often also has a higher break up, easy to test that though, with the pc card on loop through, move the dish to below threshold on the TM5402HD, does the pc card keep it locked or also lose it at the same level.

That 10832v 8876 tp also has a higher break up, not quite as high but still very high at about 70% q on a 5402 due to it being dvb-s2/8psk & then they gave it an fec of 5/6

 

[digi247]

I tested this again earlier on the 5402 and my TBS6925 card and it really does show that the Tuner in the 5402 has a Crap cut off point as cappuccino99 stated although i knew this already as any FEC over 1/2 on the 5402 will cut off at around 48-50% the higher the FEC the higher the cut off point. The TBS6925 really does show up the 5402

After moving off a little from 10° east the 5402 loses lock completely



The TBS6925 card happily plays along still after the 5402 lost signal at just under 80%



And back again to normal position and the 5402 is a happy bunny again




After quite a few different receivers i have found that any FEC over 1/2 can create problems for some but not others the Solo2 i had could hold some with an FEC of 1/2 at around a cut off point of 23% snr pretty impressive for a linux receiver but just goes to show how STB manufacturers build tuner integrity at differing levels

 

[Merliin]

Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E

10.832 V [8876] 5/6 DVB-S2 [8PSK] 18.0 Mbps [Unknown Beam?]

There are only 2 Ku band beams on Eutelsat 10A FlySat Eutelsat 10A @ 10° East Beams so the transponder signal must be reduced in power just as they do with some APTN feeds at times on this satellite,

Just bouncing red signal quality bars here on 10832 v 8876 on my 100cm set up.

 

[cappuccino99]

I tested this again earlier on the 5402 and my TBS6925 card and it really does show that the Tuner in the 5402 has a Crap cut off point as cappuccino99 stated although i knew this already as any FEC over 1/2 on the 5402 will cut off at around 48-50% the higher the FEC the higher the cut off point. The TBS6925 really does show up the 5402

..

The 5402 doesn't have a crap cut off point, they have one of the most sensitive stb tuners which is all about cut off, side by side with other receivers they either match or beat most receivers, I've had TM5402s down to the low 20s (maybe lower) fully locked & glitch free on fecs of 1/2, that would translate to about 10-15% on a Linux E2 box, they are just numbers.

DVB-S2 and the new tricks that can be done with it have unfortunately also brought with it higher break up problems that are well known, these are not standard transmissions adopted by most receiver manufacturers yet,

it's surprising the 5402 actually even shows a picture as well as it does since it's dynamic, must just keep picking up the new dynamically altered stream & that must still be in the same readable format, doesn't look that far away from doing it with the right software rewrite.

 

[digi247]

The 5402 doesn't have a crap cut off point, they have one of the most sensitive stb tuners which is all about cut off, side by side with other receivers they either match or beat most receivers, I've had TM5402s down to the low 20s (maybe lower) fully locked & glitch free on fecs of 1/2, that would translate to about 10-15% on a Linux E2 box, they are just numbers.

DVB-S2 and the new tricks that can be done with it have unfortunately also brought with it higher break up problems that are well known, these are not standard transmissions adopted by most receiver manufacturers yet,

it's surprising the 5402 actually even shows a picture as well as it does since it's dynamic, must just keep picking up the new dynamically altered stream & that must still be in the same readable format, doesn't look that far away from doing it with the right software rewrite.

Pray do tell which Transponder the 5402 can lock at 10-15% the proof of the pudding is the without a doubt screenshot i took above nothing to do with any fancy tinkering with DVB-S2 TP's at all its to do with primarily SR and FEC, S2 has been with us for over 25 years.

Just for the record the DrHD F15 beats the 5402 hands down again as i have tested both side by side and they both share the same internals, Again its the Software which beats it the DRHD guys seem to have cornered the Sensitive/Feed market.

As for a software re-write on the 5402 for ACM/VCM no chance its hardware related and not software

 

[trevortron]

These are all interesting comparisons, but I don't think it is fair to 'write off' a particular brand or model based on one sample. I have regularly seen different results from 'identical' models- both in terms of meter readings and pure performance. For instance: The old Pace BSlyB 2600C1 was reputed to have the best Digibox tuner- they were good but fringe performance did vary between boxes from the same batch. I discovered this by testing on ever-smaller dishes, trying to pick up Astra 2A North beam.
These things are made to a price and tolerance. As long as it (or one of the batch) passes the benchmark tests, out they go.