Looks like you have 3 faces now my friend
Tm twin Release date ?
- Thread starter stav8124
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Looks like you have 3 faces now my friend
i agree but im sure the cost of the box to them would mean they may make little profit and no company would do that, i have a 800 and i HATE it and cant wait until i can afford to replace it, i was unfortunate to be uneducated when i purchased my box as i was new to that sat scene and spent over £400 on the tm800 (my fault alone) taking an easy option with a site that is no longer available, had i known what i know now i would not of gone for the box but i am not put off by TM as a brand i have other items that work fine that are branded by TM. I am interested about the Twin but will wait until its released before i even think about purchasing it and if the price is the same as a vu+ then i would most likely got for the vu+
Indeed...but the TM-TWIN was at one time announced to be £299 ... It's suddenly in the last few weeks had a price increase . So I agree it will be intresting to see what exactly the TWIN is competing on.
- It's not competing on price, the DUO is cheaper.
- It's not competing on reputation, DUO is well respected and established in the Linux reciever community despuite being a releative newcomer. TM on the other have a great rep for older patchable non linux recievers, 1500CI etc...unfirtuately the Linux recievers have all been pretty rubbish...
- Is it going to compete on support ??? Time will tell DUO has official support from at least 2 teams VIX and Blackhole Team. So far TM Linux have only been supported by UR/IQ/DS...with other modded imaged like DW and Andromeda for the TM800 as UR/IQ/DS have never released the complete source code . I've also seen a couplwe of attempts to port Dreambox images for the TM500/600 like Gemini which never really worked properly...
- Will it compete on hardware spec, features and performance VS the DUO, again this will be intresting to see. We will have to wait until release.
Theres probably no doubt that the VU DUO has set the benchmark for twin tuner linux recievers in the marketplace. The DM8000 HD being the ultimnate but way too ridiciously priced. Theres also now Extrends etc on the market that are slowly gaining acceptance. So these are the recievers that the TWIN has to be better than if it's going to be a success.
ive not posted for a while, as i dont want to be seen as 'supporting' TM over any other brand, i own and use on a daily basis Vu+ and dreamboxes, as well as TM receivers
as has been pointed out, the Vu+ receivers are now an established receiver with teams supporting very good images and the support from the teams are excellent. just like the DMM receivers.
and just like nealrly EVERY other receiver, they have undergone a long line of beta testing, behind closed doors, in the case of things like the DM800, this went on for about 2 years, the 7020HD went on for over 18 months, the Vu+ duo went on for about 18 months, and id imagine the 'next generation' of receivers is undergoing the same tests as i type
THIS is one of TMs biggest mistakes, trying to shout from the rooftops 'whats coming' then constantly being let down by their 'team of experts'
just from goolge, via a leaked video that ANYBODY can find, ive known about the TM-TWIN since the middle of last year, so its been 'in production' since before that, and being tested
'the team' have taken an open source project that was released, and 'modified' it to run on the hardware, just like Vu did with the DMM code, just like DMM did with the Dbox code which came from tuxbox code?? anyway, you get the point
im not standing up for TM, their PR is totally shite, but, their aftersales are second to none, the best ive come across, their faith in their 'team of experts' is...., well, i wont comment on that one
like others have said, there WILL be people interested in the source code, but, we DONT want a set of files to ONLY build an image based upon the openViX image, this is what the ViX image will be, iQ should 'build' their own image, just like most teams have done for other receivers
as good as the ViX images are, all i want from the source is working drivers to implement into another type of image, the ViX team worked hard to create all the little addons that make a vix image what it is, its not fair for iQ to 'release' work thats not theirs to release, just to say 'heres OUR source code'
side by side (yes, i have a Duo and a TWIN) the duo has more functionality than the twin, but, a lot of this IS down to the ViX introduced features of the image, which should be removed before a public release, but, for some things the TWIN does seem a lot faster and more fluid, but, with some work from a team like ViX, this receiver has the potential to create a storm for the right reasons
IF 'the team' listen to other teams, and release just the drivers to implement into other codes as well as openViX
as has been pointed out, the Vu+ receivers are now an established receiver with teams supporting very good images and the support from the teams are excellent. just like the DMM receivers.
and just like nealrly EVERY other receiver, they have undergone a long line of beta testing, behind closed doors, in the case of things like the DM800, this went on for about 2 years, the 7020HD went on for over 18 months, the Vu+ duo went on for about 18 months, and id imagine the 'next generation' of receivers is undergoing the same tests as i type
THIS is one of TMs biggest mistakes, trying to shout from the rooftops 'whats coming' then constantly being let down by their 'team of experts'
just from goolge, via a leaked video that ANYBODY can find, ive known about the TM-TWIN since the middle of last year, so its been 'in production' since before that, and being tested
'the team' have taken an open source project that was released, and 'modified' it to run on the hardware, just like Vu did with the DMM code, just like DMM did with the Dbox code which came from tuxbox code?? anyway, you get the point
im not standing up for TM, their PR is totally shite, but, their aftersales are second to none, the best ive come across, their faith in their 'team of experts' is...., well, i wont comment on that one
like others have said, there WILL be people interested in the source code, but, we DONT want a set of files to ONLY build an image based upon the openViX image, this is what the ViX image will be, iQ should 'build' their own image, just like most teams have done for other receivers
as good as the ViX images are, all i want from the source is working drivers to implement into another type of image, the ViX team worked hard to create all the little addons that make a vix image what it is, its not fair for iQ to 'release' work thats not theirs to release, just to say 'heres OUR source code'
side by side (yes, i have a Duo and a TWIN) the duo has more functionality than the twin, but, a lot of this IS down to the ViX introduced features of the image, which should be removed before a public release, but, for some things the TWIN does seem a lot faster and more fluid, but, with some work from a team like ViX, this receiver has the potential to create a storm for the right reasons
IF 'the team' listen to other teams, and release just the drivers to implement into other codes as well as openViX
It's going to be very hard to compete at that high price. Only time will tell when it's released and proper users have played and objectively compared it like for like with boxes such as Vu Duo and with clones of that are appearing as well. I would think it'll have to hold it's own against those and get 3rd party images going on it and it'll probably slowly start dropping in price to a point where it's considerd a competitor. I wouldn't be surprised it TM even end up breaking even or losing on it as long as it repairs some of that reputation.
i wont work with a clone receiver when im comparing things m8. with a clone receiver, the build quality is ALWAYS inferior, as well as the components used, this is what makes them so cheap, you then also have to mess about with what images etc you load onto a clone to ensure you dont end up killing it
yes people moan about the price of things like dreamboxes, but, if the high price of dreamboxes wasnt paid by real enthusiasts over the last few years, then there wouldnt have been the funds available to create the DM8000, which probably wouldnt have seen the Vu+ Duo and clarktech receivers born from the same hardware and also wouldnt have seen the tm-twin come along either.
EVERYONE is moaning about the prices, and buying clones, coupled with commercial servers, the satellite 'hobby' has 8-10 years left, if its lucky
theres no money for R&D into new projects, as the majority of the money is being spent on clones
in 10 years time, if anything at all is available, itll be basic shitty things like openboxes, for about £22 each, along with a CCcam server line, and everyone moaning 'i wish i could change the skin' or 'i wish i could add something that will do.......' just like the dreambox and linux receiver days
Im not convinced with the arguement that all clones have inferior hardware...The Chipsets and CPU at least are the same as originals. yes they probably due use cheaper capacitors , power supplys, plastics and metal for the casing and remotes.
The point is clone manufactures are still making profit wven by selling at much lower prices than originals. The question is how much of a profit margin/markup is there on hardware applied by the manufacturers of original equipment ??
Clone manufacturers are able to sell at low prices because they dont have to pay high prices for software development and R&D they only pay for workarounds/patching of original images and software.
If China clones of a DM800SE are 150 quid delivered and theyre still making profit...imagine the markups DMM are making on RRP of 429 !! Same for VU DUO + clone = 180 original = 329 ...
The point is clone manufactures are still making profit wven by selling at much lower prices than originals. The question is how much of a profit margin/markup is there on hardware applied by the manufacturers of original equipment ??
Clone manufacturers are able to sell at low prices because they dont have to pay high prices for software development and R&D they only pay for workarounds/patching of original images and software.
If China clones of a DM800SE are 150 quid delivered and theyre still making profit...imagine the markups DMM are making on RRP of 429 !! Same for VU DUO + clone = 180 original = 329 ...
and this is what will end up destroying the whole 'hobby'
more people buying clones means less people spending money on the R&D for newer equipment, no funding for new equipment also means NO new equipment to clone, so the ONLY people making any gain from the clones, are the clone manufacturers, who dont actually put anything back into the hobby in the way of advances
Problem being is the "hobbyist" scene is very small.... The majority of people are TV freeloaders just want a share to a server to allow them watch cheap premium content TV. Ther dont really care about skins, plugins etc as long as then can watch sport and p0rn...
Which is why cheap no frills boxes like Openbox etc are all doing so well. There never has been much R&D in the Linux Scene it started of as a hobbyist thing with old school cable and tx box Commando images etc... It's only really DMM who have invested heavily in Enigma2 development, paid image teams etc.
Everyone else to an extent are "clones" and have just leached off DMM's R&D... Even still theres no real benefit in terms of R&D from other manufacturers OK they release E2 images...but theyre really just DMM images made to work on alternate hardware...so wheres the development to the scene...It's similar to just lining the pockets of Extrend, VU+, TM, Clarketch etc.. instead of clone manufacturers.
I would call R&D something along the lines of if a manufacturer released their own linux codebase not based on Enigma2 but their own devleoped platform and developed new features that DMM recievers dont have that would be progress...
Which is why cheap no frills boxes like Openbox etc are all doing so well. There never has been much R&D in the Linux Scene it started of as a hobbyist thing with old school cable and tx box Commando images etc... It's only really DMM who have invested heavily in Enigma2 development, paid image teams etc.
Everyone else to an extent are "clones" and have just leached off DMM's R&D... Even still theres no real benefit in terms of R&D from other manufacturers OK they release E2 images...but theyre really just DMM images made to work on alternate hardware...so wheres the development to the scene...It's similar to just lining the pockets of Extrend, VU+, TM, Clarketch etc.. instead of clone manufacturers.
I would call R&D something along the lines of if a manufacturer released their own linux codebase not based on Enigma2 but their own devleoped platform and developed new features that DMM recievers dont have that would be progress...
renwich
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Components for original or clone boxes are probably not much different in costs or the labour/ tooling to build the components into the final product , I think you will find the main costs are for licensing HDMI, DRS etc, etc, wouldn't surprise me if the original manufacturers wernt behind some of these clone products saving themselves the licensing costs and making a quick buck on the side .
plus the Cam side of the hobby, if CS gets stopped the same as Cable suddenly became a cropper then the like of Dream, TM, VU+ stand to lose out big time
plus the Cam side of the hobby, if CS gets stopped the same as Cable suddenly became a cropper then the like of Dream, TM, VU+ stand to lose out big time
The original code was the tuxbox boys code enigma, neutrino and lcars were all developed by the tuxbox boys and they were all hobbyists.
I accept that DMM have put a lot of money into R&D but they still copied the tuxbox boys in the 1st place and as such all their recievers go back to this hobbyist development.
The clone manufacturers are now making modifications to the dm800se hardware which while minor are still improvements so they are investing in the market. This is how dmm started copying/improving the dbox2 hardware and using the tuxbox boys code, even the clone dm500's are an improvement on the last models to be made by dmm themselves.
As far as i'm concerned the dmm company started as a clone company who started early and with the forsight to invest to become the market leader, this doesn't mean that they started the linux scene just that they came out on top at this current time.
All the knocking of TM as if they are the only ones that made a bad box is shortsighted as most dmm boxes had big problems when they were originally released. vu+ had the forsight to make sure their box was stable before release and got a decent team to do the coding, once/if tm realise that their team are crap they can go on to get a decent foothold in the linux scene as they have in the non linux market. Their aftersales is 2nd to non but their software team keep letting them down.
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