Sharia law in UK is 'unavoidable'

[little_pob]

It does look like most people are distancing themselves away from this. There must be an election round the corner

Sharia law catastrophic - Blunkett

Formalising sharia law in the UK would be "catastrophic" for social cohesion, a former Home Secretary has warned, as the row raged over comments by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

David Blunkett said people must not be excluded from the law because of cultural or faith reasons.

Dr Rowan Williams has been at the centre of a storm for claiming the adoption of elements of Islamic sharia law in the UK "seems unavoidable".

He said there was a place for finding a "constructive accommodation" in areas such as marriage which could allow Muslim women to avoid western divorce proceedings.

But his comments have been attacked by Christian and secular groups and a spokesman for Prime Minister Gordon Brown insisted British law would be based on British values, and sharia law would be no justification for acting against national law.

Mr Blunkett told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I think this is very dangerous because the Archbishop used the term affiliations.

"We have affiliations to football clubs, to cricket teams, to all sorts of things that aren't central to our citizenship and the acceptance of that in terms of a common society.

"We don't have affiliations when it comes to the question of the law. And when it comes to equality under the law, we have to be rigorous in terms of making sure people do not find themselves excluded from it because of cultural or faith reasons."

Formalising sharia law "would be wrong democratically and philosophically but it would be catastrophic in terms of social cohesion", he warned.

Dr Williams said on Thursday: "It seems unavoidable and, as a matter of fact, certain conditions of sharia are already recognised in our society and under our law, so it is not as if we are bringing in an alien and rival system."

pa.press.net - 08.02.2008 14:05
http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=7477989

 

[v14]

no one of a sane mind could think this is even a possibility. All Rowan Williams has done with his done his bloody idiotic comments is opened the flood gates for the fanatical element to jump on the bandwagon and support his ill conceived comments.
Hes a fookin idiot.
He should be sacked or whatever you do to a shite archbishop.

FFS what next, should we adopt Polish law

 

[totalgenius]

Q and A: Sharia law explained

The Archbishop of Canterbury has come under fire after appearing to back the adoption of some aspects of Sharia law in the UK. But how does the legal system work and fit into society? What is Sharia?

Sharia law is Islam's legal system. It is derived from both the Koran, as the word of God, and the example of the life of the prophet Mohammed.
But Sharia differs in one very important and significant way to the legal traditions of the Western world: it governs, or at least informs, every aspect of the life of a Muslim.

What does it cover?

Western law confines itself largely to matters relating to crime, contract, civil relationships and individual rights.
Sharia is however concerned with more. Sharia rulings have been developed to help Muslims understand how they should lead every aspect of their lives according to God's wishes.

What does this mean in practice?

All sorts of things in daily life. For example, many young Muslims ask themselves what they should do if colleagues invite them to the pub after work or college.
Many people would of course make up their own mind about the appropriate course of action. But others may turn to a Sharia scholar for advice.
So Sharia covers a lot of very mundane and banal daily issues where observant Muslims want to ensure they act within the legal framework of their faith.

So how are rulings made?

Like any legal system, Sharia is complex and its practice is entirely reliant on the quality and training of experts.

There are different schools of thought, which consequently lead to different rulings.

Scholars spend decades studying the law and, like with Western law, an expert on one aspect of Sharia is no means the authority on another.
Islamic jurists issue guidance and rulings. Guidance that is considered a formal legal ruling is called a Fatwa.

Do people go to court?

Sharia courts exist in both the Muslim world and in the Western world.
In the Muslim world the criminal courts and their punishments are of course drawn from the rules of Sharia.

In the West, Muslim communities have established Sharia courts to largely deal with family or business disputes.

The internet has become a popular way of seeking a ruling with scholars. Some of the guidance to Muslims in the west which has been considered most outlandish has come from these sources, particularly where the scholar has no knowledge of the realities of western life.

Why is Sharia mentioned in the same breath as public executions?

Of all the issues around Islamic law, this remains the most controversial in Western eyes - and its presentation the most infuriating for Muslims.

Called for moratorium on death penalty
​

Muslims say the Western world misrepresents Sharia by focusing on beheadings in Saudi Arabia and other gruesome punishments. The equivalent, they say, would be a debate about the history of Western law focused on America's electric chair.

Some modern Muslim scholars say that while Sharia includes provisions for capital and corporal punishment, getting to that stage is in fact quite difficult.
The most famous Muslim thinker in Europe, Tariq Ramadan, has called for a moratorium on these penalties in the Muslim world.

He argues that the conditions under which such penalties would be legal are almost impossible to re-establish in today's world.

But Muslims can be executed for converting?

Apostasy, or leaving the faith, is a very controversial issue in the Muslim world and the consensus of scholars believe it is punishable by death.

But a minority of Muslim thinkers, particularly those engaged with Western societies, argue that the reality of the modern world means the "punishment" should be left to God - and that Islam itself is not threatened by apostasy.

The Koran itself declares there is "no compulsion" in religion.
Egypt's most senior cleric has faced a storm in the Middle East after floating some of these ideas but the debate may well continue for many generations to come.

So what kind of Sharia are we talking about in the UK?

The key issues are family law, finance and business. In practice many Muslims do turn to Sharia guidance for many of these day-to-day matters, particularly family disputes.

And how does this work in practice?

Muslims are increasingly looking to the example of Jewish communities which have long-established religious community courts.

These "courts" are legally recognised in English law as a means for warring parties to agree to arbitration. The law sees this as a practical way of helping people to resolve their differences in their own way, without clogging up the local courts.

But what about incorporating Sharia into British law?

In two important areas British law has incorporated religious legal considerations. British food regulations allow meat to be slaughtered according to Jewish and Islamic practices - a touchstone issue for both communities.

Secondly, the Treasury has approved Sharia-compliant financial products such as mortgages and investments. Islam forbids interest on the basis that it is money unjustly earned. These products are said by supporters to meet the needs of modern life in a way that fits the faith.

Has any western nation allowed Sharia to be used in full?

Not at all. Canada is widely reported to have come close - leading to protests in 2005.

But in reality the proposals were little different to the existing religious arbitration rules here in the UK.

Experts considered establishing Sharia-related family courts to ease the burden on civil courts - but said these would have to observe the basic human rights guarantees of Canadian law.

What about Sharia and women?

Some Muslim women in Britain are concerned about how their rights are protected. Take marriage for example.

Muslims only consider themselves truly married once they have conducted the Islamic ceremony, known as the nikah. In some cases, this means that there is a cultural view that the British civil ceremony, which enforces legal rights under the law, is not important.

Some mosques are alive to this issue and now demand to see a marriage certificate as a condition of the nikah. Others do not. Many women want Muslim leaders to do more to ensure their rights are protected under British law.

So women have reservations about Sharia?

Some Muslim women in the West would be worried about protection of their rights in Sharia courts where there is discrimination against them because of patriarchal and cultural control in their communities.

This does not mean that they are necessarily opposed to Sharia - only there are live concerns about the fairness of its application.

It's fair to say that many leading Muslim women are more concerned about how existing British equality measures and human rights laws can be used to improve their position and voice in society.





By Dominic Casciani
BBC News home affairs reporter
h**p://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7234870.stm

 

[K]

I think what Rowan Williams needs to remember is that the law of this land is made by MP's and law lords, not clerics.
These MP's are elected by you and I, the members of the public.

Curly

But we never had the chance to vote for Brown? the way this goverment is set up reminds me of a communist state, Every law, Leader etc is brought through the back door. The general public didnt have the option to vote for the current priminister, this was set by tony blair (wheres he gone) who promised a mate "you can have a go" i know gordon but "ill leave mid term and let you stand the rest"... there is no law to stop this??

I dont understand why people in this country is scared of speaking out.. i speak out and love to express my discruntled vision of other cultures..

 

[v14]

But we never had the chance to vote for Brown?

you dont vote for a PM you vote for your local mp

 

[Gunner786]

even though im a mislum,
i really dont care wether a sharia law is established in the uk,
i hope it isnt in a way too

 

[K]

you dont vote for a PM you vote for your local mp

Yes true but you vote you local mp in the hope that his party will take power.

Anyway I suggest another tactic. Anyone dumb enough to vote Labour should be shot in the face or otherwise disposed of There is no excuse for voting for these ****s. Enough is enough.

 

[v14]

Yes true but you vote you local mp in the hope that his party will take power.

Anyway I suggest another tactic. Anyone dumb enough to vote Labour should be shot in the face or otherwise disposed of There is no excuse for voting for these ****s. Enough is enough.

the fact is that this has got sod all to do with the government, it was [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams who made these stupid remarks[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

[K]

the fact is that this has got sod all to do with the government, it was [SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams who made these stupid remarks[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Yes, and the other fact is the goverment will consider it.

 

[v14]

Yes, and the other fact is the goverment will consider it.

i dont think so

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1304518,00.html?f=rss

 

[nara]

Yes, and the other fact is the goverment will consider it.

Bollocks! The Government didn't consider it for a nanosecond. This thread has got s*d-all to do with politics, and your comments about people who vote labour (shot in the face??) is highly offensive to a large section of the British population. This is not a politcal thread or a political forum. Please keep your political prejudices to yourself.

 

[hawkish]

But we never had the chance to vote for Brown? the way this goverment is set up reminds me of a communist state, Every law, Leader etc is brought through the back door. The general public didnt have the option to vote for the current priminister, this was set by tony blair (wheres he gone) who promised a mate "you can have a go" i know gordon but "ill leave mid term and let you stand the rest"... there is no law to stop this??

I dont understand why people in this country is scared of speaking out.. i speak out and love to express my discruntled vision of other cultures..

Not just this government - tories did that too though - John Major was self elected mid term

perhaps this is going off topic a bit

 

[K]

i dont think so

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1304518,00.html?f=rss

If your going to back your claim up use sources which can be trusted..

Ie

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3640949.stm

Did i miss this?? if i did please tell me when this happened???

 

[K]

Bollocks! The Government didn't consider it for a nanosecond. This thread has got s*d-all to do with politics, and your comments about people who vote labour (shot in the face??) is highly offensive to a large section of the British population. This is not a politcal thread or a political forum. Please keep your political prejudices to yourself.

So what exactly is this thread??

Its not race, its not politics so what exactly are we discussing??

Sorry but this is exactly that, Politics...

And for the offensive comment.. i will not keep my comments to myself... That is exactly what is needed well not to that extreme but people do need to speak up..

 

[gooner71]

I like the post by totalgenius - it certainly explained how Sharia law works!!

I would say though its one thing ammending UK Law to cover issues regarding food processing to ensure Halal and Kosher practices are allowed to be followed but would the general public be happy for the law to be changed to allow mulitple marriage?

The UK is the most tolerant society in the world, as has been proved over many years, since the 1970's especially British society has bent over backwards to ensure everyone no matter what their country of origin or religion is treated fairly. The trouble is if things start to go too far against traditional UK beliefs there will be an uprising.

I for one think it would be a step too far to allow Sharia Law to be incorporated into UK Law - The UK has already surrendered its status as a Christian country and is these days known more as a secular state? I dont remember this being debated or voted on - it just happened? I dont care about that - infact it makes things a lot clearer to ensure that religion and matters of state are unconnected!!

If by any slight chance Sharia Law is adopted I for one will be first in line to stage a coup and seize control of parliament until elections could be arranged and I imagine there would be thousands standing beside me of every walk of life and more importantly "faith".

I cant think of one Muslim I know who wants Sharia Law to be enshrined in UK law. They follow the moral code but are happy to live and abide by UK Law. If it was that important to be under Sharia then Muslims would feel obliged to never live in the UK and as can be seen this just does not happen.

Rowan Williams is talking rubbish as usual - great stuff coming from the Archbishop of a religion created to allow the former Roman Catholic King of England to divorce his wife?? And this man is seen as an authority??

 

[v14]

If your going to back your claim up use sources which can be trusted..

Ie

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3640949.stm

Did i miss this?? if i did please tell me when this happened???

lol...so so an official No 10 spokesman didnt say that then?
what are you on?

maybe the telegraph made it up too

 

[K]

lol...so so an official No 10 spokesman didnt say that then?
what are you on?

The thing is the goverment would have known about this well before rowan said it.. for him to go.. to then be rejected as it wouldnt be the right time...

If the goverment can lie about their wages and who they take donations from etc they can lie about anything.. im not asking you to believe what i say but all im saying is be a little more opened minded... as this current goverment is corrupt as hell.. and so will the govt after and the govt after that..

 

[nara]

Not just this government - tories did that too though - John Major was self elected mid term

perhaps this is going off topic a bit

Possibly, but it's a fact completely ignored by numerous posters. Many Prime Ministers have come to office in exactly the same way as Gordon Brown. There is nothing constitutionally unusual about it, but suddenly it's an issue. I just wish people would get their facts right before mouthing off.

 

[nara]

The thing is the goverment would have known about this well before rowan said it..

More nonsense, stick to the facts please, unless you have some inside information you want to share.

 

[v14]

The thing is the goverment would have known about this well before rowan said it.. for him to go.. to then be rejected as it wouldnt be the right time...

If the goverment can lie about their wages and who they take donations from etc they can lie about anything.. im not asking you to believe what i say but all im saying is be a little more opened minded... as this current goverment is corrupt as hell.. and so will the govt after and the govt after that..

again with the politics.
i doubt that Dr Rowan Williams clears the contents of his speeches with GB before he makes an arse of himself.
RW made the speech and No10 rightly IMO shot it down, end of story.

but heres a thought, can you imagine the uproar if it was suggested that The American Constitution be ammended to accommodate Sharia Law?