Remember Maggie

Nice to see a debate that hasn't gone way out of line apart from a few removed posts it's been good honest stuff :Clap:

that's what it should be about

I don't even remember the woman, my parents didn't even vote for her they were labour

just wasn't nice to see all the slagging with no real facts, the OP just cut and paste something that wasn't his own from somewhere else

can anyone really name a popular PM in recent times? me personally wouldn't truct any of them lol
 
I don't think many of our English members can quite appreciate just how much this woman was hated and despised north of the border.
was not just north of the border that she messed up
i have not heard anyone mention the mines that were closed due to her direct actions 3 in Sunderland for a start and why ??
coal was the bought and imported to the UK at a much greater cost and what did this give us
more money to heat houses and more villages that relied on them being full of unemployed work force
on top of that what did she do next closed all the ship yards and even sign a redevelopment agreement to say no ships could be built in a set time

yer great lets have the old fart back in and destroy whats left
 
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just been looking through recent posts,(my god) the reason i posted that was not to start arguments between members (far from it) and yes i copied & pasted from another web site i never said it was my writing, the post of mines that got removed on reflection i should not have posted it as it was my own personal feelings but i dont apologize for thinking it.

My feelings towards thatcher for me are justified for many reasons that directly affected myself.
I stayed in the shadows of the Ravenscraig Steel Works, My dad and some family and a load of neigbours that worked there all getting paid off with no other jobs to go to as there was none so bang went the holidays and as for christmas amongst other money problems with 4 of us , wellllll, Thanks Maggie

Being placed on a goverment training program (remember YTS etc.) for 2 years and promised a job after it (aye right), 1st year earning £38pw to which i had to give my parents £20 in digs, weekly bus ticket £9, 2nd year wages went up to about £45 ish digs went up too and i was out the door at 6 am till sometimes after 7pm. (Now kids wouldnt even do that for £100pw)

The Poll Tax was shoved up our Scottish arses first amongst other policies that wee were guinea pigs to, many people became criminalised through that unfair tax, that leads us to the 1991 census when no 1 would fill in any type of form that smelt of government so that fecked that, as to the amount of kids that were born without dads name on the birth certificate because the dads had to pay a bloody fortune in maintenance , im not agreeing with that but it was a fact (do your homework). Not forgetting the Miners who where led by scargil whos motives were aired on a recent program on terrestrial tv about Thatcher, etc. etc.etc.etc.
Thats my last post in this thread as everthing has already been said.

Looking forward to a new thread when she rolls over for the last time
 
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the only good thing I can say about Thatcher is Spitting Image would not have been as good without her,

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2DnW5uC1_A&feature=related]YouTube - Adolf Hitler & Margaret Thatcher Puppets[/ame]

as for the bad things, life's to short to waste on that old boot.
 
There are a couple of things, not saying good to bad that really changed during her leadership.

- Home owning shot through the roof. partially due to the flood of cheap housing on the market when she sold off a large amound of council housing to tentants who would never have been able to afford being a house owner otherwise.

- Privatisation of utilities and industries. TBH, anybody who had worked in those areas would have told you of the vast inefficencies and jobs for the boys (pretty much like council workers today). It did raise billions for the taxpayer though today virtually all those companies are foreign owned.

- Through shares, home ownership and other items, bought in a new group of middle class.

- Broke the unions. Again you could see where the unions were ruining britsih industry so in some cases a good thing. But did it swing too far in favour of companies. In hindsight difficult to say.

As for the recession, to me that was going to happen anyway. I may have been magnified by her policies but much like the recession of the late 90's and late 00's its cyclic.
 
I am and still do live on a working class estate in the midlands, we had it rough in the early eightys like anyone else.The only privilage i've had is to work for a living and when things got tough get off me arse and do something about it. The so called witch your on about took away the powers of the unions,who were on a self destruct agenda,to give real power to the people that wanted to work and try without all the crap that came with it.The real people who hurt the working class was the unions,who frightened people witless,backed by labour non the less.Scargill and his mob of thugs destroyed any hope of the labour working class in the eighties and tarnished the miners for life!!!

It really is quite amusing how people see things differently.
You think Maggie took away the powers of the unions.
i.e
Miners
Steelworkers
Shipbuilders
Car workers

I think that she shut down the industries causing massive unemployment and devastation to communities.
But hey thats just my view.
 
It really is quite amusing how people see things differently.
You think Maggie took away the powers of the unions.
i.e
Miners
Steelworkers
Shipbuilders
Car workers

I think that she shut down the industries causing massive unemployment and devastation to communities.
But hey thats just my view.

So you would prefer that these efficent industries kept sucking up billions in tax payers money ? Not sure about the other industries but quality and productivity of UK cars were a joke.

While I am not in total agreement in with the way things went down, drastic changes were needed which included some job losses. From what I understand the unions were not prepared to conceed an inch so maggie decided to take a hard line with them.
 
only one i can comment on is the ravenscraig steelworks

now i dont really know the in and outs for sure but from what i've picked up is

if the steelworks were thriving before the government took them over what went wrong?

The colville family must have been making a fortune then the government bought them out? and the craig slowly but surely ground to a halt?

Cheers
MFCGAVMFC
 
There are a couple of things, not saying good to bad that really changed during her leadership.

- Home owning shot through the roof. partially due to the flood of cheap housing on the market when she sold off a large amound of council housing to tentants who would never have been able to afford being a house owner otherwise.

- Privatisation of utilities and industries. TBH, anybody who had worked in those areas would have told you of the vast inefficencies and jobs for the boys (pretty much like council workers today). It did raise billions for the taxpayer though today virtually all those companies are foreign owned.

- Through shares, home ownership and other items, bought in a new group of middle class.

- Broke the unions. Again you could see where the unions were ruining britsih industry so in some cases a good thing. But did it swing too far in favour of companies. In hindsight difficult to say.

As for the recession, to me that was going to happen anyway. I may have been magnified by her policies but much like the recession of the late 90's and late 00's its cyclic.

Yip she was a great leader sold off all the decent council houses for a fraction of what they were worth, sold off all the industry so by the time everyone realised they had been shafted all the country's assets were gone and the next goverenment had fook all income.

Labour hasn't been great either but be honest if most of your assets are gone how do you balance the books? The bankers have brought the country to it's knees but still they get millions in bonuses.

The only tory policy I agree with is sorting out all the mooching b*stards that are better off sitting on their ar*es than working for a living, the sooner that is sorted the better IMHO
 
Yip she was a great leader sold off all the decent council houses for a fraction of what they were worth,

council housing was supposedly sold off to long term tennants to get them off benefits thus saving money in the long run, however what happened was that everyone bought the houses on the cheap and sold them on.
 
council housing was supposedly sold off to long term tennants to get them off benefits thus saving money in the long run, however what happened was that everyone bought the houses on the cheap and sold them on.

as if no one could have predicited that...

Cheers
MFCGAVMFC
 
council housing was supposedly sold off to long term tennants to get them off benefits thus saving money in the long run, however what happened was that everyone bought the houses on the cheap and sold them on.

Thats exactly what I meant, round here lots of people stayed in them till they could sell them without the penalty then pretended to split up, the wife and kids got another council house, sold the fooker and within a couple of months they were playing happy families in another council house with a big fat bank book.

Most of the council houses that are left round here you would hardly stay in for free TBH
 
Is she any worse than the 2 biggest con men we had for 13 years blair and brown?
 
Is she any worse than the 2 biggest con men we had for 13 years blair and brown?

they have their pros and cons

mopping up the mess from the tories and rebuilding one the biggest economies in the world

on the bad side blair took us into a war that had nothing to do with us but got rid of an evil dictator whilst needlsy ending lives

every prime minister has their pros and cons but it seems to be maggies cons were governing the working class

Cheers
MFCGAVMFC
 
i was one of a number that went knocking on doors to collect for the miners families to try and help to keep them from starving, i saw the police on horse back ridding through British working men who where legally picketing, i remember the sinking of the argie ship killing 1300 young sailors all to help her keep in power (people will always back the leader in the face of adversity), i remember the promises of north sea oil and gas only to see the vast profits given away.she was no leader she was a bigger dictator than Hitler, Blair is not much better getting us into a war we should be nowhere near then bolting when faced with prosecution, then brown who just stand around while 90% of m.p.s. are caught stealing expenses you can bet if some one on benefits was caught fiddling half the amount that certain m.p.s where caught doing they would be jailed then made to pay the money back they would not be able to claim parliamentary privileges.
sorry for the rant but i lived through it all , its not some thing i have read but seen first hand
 
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rip Maggie you were a legend

done a search on google for opression an came across this, seems like historys repeating itself with the conservatives, remember this auld boot


20 REASONS WHY I HATE THATCHER

1. As Education secretary under Edward Heath in a foretaste of what is to come, stops free milk for school children. No chance of the widely praised 'free fruit' scheme ever being Tory policy! She later deregulates school meals so all they have on the menu is burger and chips! The health of the nation was not something Thatcher thought any of her concern.

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2. Shamelessly uses the 'race card' to get elected PM in 1979! (Though I wont claim her to be the first Tory leader to use this and certainly not the last!) "We are being flooded!" she asserts despite figures showing emigration higher than immigration and immigration at its lowest post-war level. Her idols are Keith Joseph (who ruined his own chance of being leader with a demon eyed rant on TV about sterilising the poor (I jest not!!)) and Enoch Powell (the 'intellectual' racist). She promotes Keith 'Eugenics' Joseph to Education Minister!

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3. Monetarism! Disastrous policy of trying to control money supply. In the first of her two recessions (the worst since the 1930's), one fifth of our industrial base is wiped out and unemployment is more than doubled, there are summer riots in every inner-city in the country. Not bad for her first 2 years in office! In the first of many U-turns (see point on 'myth of strong leader'), she abandons monetarism. Polls predict Labour landslide and despite the resolute support of the press, she is the most unpopular PM on record. How could she possibly get out of this one?

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4. The Falklands! In a gross piece of incompetence (or was it deliberate?) fails to avert the Falklands crisis by ignoring intelligence on the Argentine preparation for invasion in early 1982. Indeed she seems to positively encourage it by proposing scrapping the only warship we have there and having her defence secretary Nicholas Ridley openly say we didn't want the Falklands, thereby giving the impression we are not bothered about the islands! In 1978 when faced with the same intelligence, the Labour government quietly averts a war through diplomatic channels by threatening to send a taskforce. It's the classic tale, to divert attention from disastrous economic policies at home a crooked leader engages in a foreign war (except I'm not talking about Galtieri!). Perhaps Thatcher was getting advise from some of the brutal dictatorships she helped prop up in South America, "Would you like some more tea Mr Pinochet?". Number of British soldiers killed, 278, Argentines, 3000+. Blood on her hands anyone?

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5. Destruction of local democracy. The beauty of not having a written constitution, having the backing of the press, having a massive majority in parliament (despite only getting 42% of the vote, less than 1 in 3 of the electorate) and having a permanent inbuilt Tory hereditory second chamber is that Tory PMs can do whatever they like. If you dont like local democracy because they vote for someone else, just abolish it like Thatcher did and centralise everything from Whitehall and unelected Quangos who you carefully select. (Yes, Thatcher invented Quasi Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisations.) The popular GLC was scrapped despite over 80% of Londoners being opposed. Londoners have to wait over 13 years before getting an assembly back and electing Livingstone as its leader once again.

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6. Politicising the civil service. See point about QUANGOs above. Also if you dont like what statistics the statistics office is publishing, make sure you stop them collecting the statistics and stop them publishing them. The figures that were published on individual wealth and earnings each year were abolished in this way. The Office for National Statistics like the Bank of England was made independent by this Labour government and yes they have started publishing the wealth and earnings figures again.

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7. Regressive Taxation. Under Thatcher VAT increased from 8% to 17.5% and was also levied on utility bills for the first time as well. What she gave the rich in income tax cuts she took from the poor in indirect taxation. The proportion of GDP spent by the government under Thatcher stayed fairly static at around 40%. The difference was that rather than spend it on the NHS, housing or education she spent the money on defence, a massive expansion of the civil service (see point 6), paying the huge unemployment bill, and rising police salaries to keep them loyal in the face of massive civil unrest. The best part of all was that she shifted the burden of payment for all this onto the poor from the rich.

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8. The widening gap between rich and poor. This might not be such a bad thing if the gap had not been so massive in the first place. How can the richest 50% owning 97% of the wealth be fair? This was her starting position she moved wealth almost exclusively to the richest 10% at the expense of the poorest 50%.

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9. Spend, spend, spend! Abolishing credit controls seemed such a good idea, the economy booms on a consumer spending bubble....cue second crippling recession. Thanks Margaret! Not to mention the misery caused to millions of people suckered into debts and negative equity! Spend, spend, spend also applied to government borrowing which despite claims of financial prudence increased massively under Thatcher to fund income tax cuts for the rich.

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10. Homelessness for the young. Why should homelessness be the preserve of ageing tramps who remember the 1930's. No! Thatcher thought the opportunities should be open to all. Young beggars on the streets were Thatcher's invention. The legacy of massive youth unemployment and crime no-go areas for the police are still being fought today. There is a whole generation of people where crime and welfare culture was their only way of surviving and it became their mindset.

11. The Poll Tax! Regardless of how you view this in theory, apart from its regressive nature, it quite plainly was unworkable. They knew that it was going to be ridiculously expensive to collect, that there was overwhelming opposition to it (it ruined the 1991 census) and was going to mean massive non-payment and it was responsible for some of the worst rioting ever seen in central London but they pressed ahead anyway. Another U-turn inevitably came!

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12. The myth of the strong leader. This was a total invention of the press. Thatcher's only strength (if you could call it that) was that she had no principles at all! She was an anti-smoking campaigner who ended up on the payroll of British American Tobacco. She had to do a U-turn on her 'flagship' economic policy after 2 years because she had wrecked the economy (see point 3) (This was just one year after her famous speech in 1980 where she assured the party faithful she was going to stick to monetarist policies-"You turn if you want to...the lady's not for turning"-yeah right!!). The Poll Tax was a disaster which she had to U-turn on (but too late to save her from being stabbed in the back!). She went to Europe saying she was against federalism but signed its most federalist law (the Single European Act in 1986). She later claimed she was tricked on this. Did she even know what she was doing? Some strong leader that is! And to top it all off, even in departure she was weak. "I fight on, I fight to win" she said in her pompous way before quietly resigning hours later when confronted by Ministers like Geoffrey Howe!!! It was the final U-turn from a weak puppet leader whose only qualities (as far as the Tories were concerned) were she did what she was told.

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13. Degradation of the social professions. Social workers were virtually denounced as criminals! Teachers were so derided and there pay so eroded it barely survived as a profession and things like mental health, just loose them out on the streets, Thatcher's government didnt care what they did!

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14. Victorian Values. Yes before its Back to Basics successor under Major, Thatcher promised to take us back to Victorian morality and she nearly succeeded. We were not far away from child labour and seething slums of humanity and disease. I reckon Thatcher needed one more term for that!! She also took care to defend to the hilt her countless Ministers who were caught with their trousers down or hands in the till or both in some cases! Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer (3 times), Jonathon Aitkin (twice)... etc. etc. the list goes on.

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15. "There is no such thing as society". Did Thatcher foresee the 'playstation' generation? Selfishness as a virtue seemed to sum up her warped sense of morality to me.

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16. Over-privatisation and overt corruption. Oh the beauty of it, a totally dominant monopoly privatised at a discount price to big business (lots of it foreign owned) so they can cream off profits to their hearts content. Who can do without Water, Gas, Electricity? We can charge what we like! Plus we get the bonus of nice jobs on more Quangos OfWat, OfGas, Of-with taxpayers cash we go. With Ministers interchanging between the boardrooms of the newly privatised companies and the regulating boards on massive salaries. Even husband and wife teams, remember Mr and Mrs Howe, one a consultant with a privatised firm, his wife the regulator. Anyone for insider dealing calls out Mrs Archer! Oh jolly good show! Even industries that plainly werent feasible for privatisation like bus and rail, go for it, it wont hurt. And what shall we do with the money my dear? Well my son Mark has shares in a nice defence firm! Rather, still some left over for a nice reduction in the top rate of income tax as well.

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17. Even public service broadcasting couldnt escape. Relentless bullying of the BBC was started by Thatcher, she took this to a new level with Tebbit and various other ministers calling it the Bolshevic Broadcasting Company because it failed to replicate Sun editorial lines in its news broadcasts. In one of her last acts she even managed to wreck Channel 4' s public service commitment by changing its funding situation from one of subscription from ITV who sold its advertising space to total dependence on advertising.

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18. The divisiveness of the North-South divide in wealth. Look at the political map and you can still see where the Conservatives win most of their seats in the South East because of this.

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19. Regular winter crises in the NHS became the norm. The Tories argued these were inevitable because we couldnt afford to fund the NHS properly. There are no winter crises anymore!

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20. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher. This is probably the most surprising statistic of the lot when you consider the Tories so called strong standing on law and order. It just goes to demonstrate why we need a history lesson about Thatcher and not the lies printed in the right wing owned press.
 
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