Help please with UPVC front door,

[scudo]

Hi all,

Front door is dropping towards the latch end, I have managed so far to get the beading off and play around with the `packing` however I still cant manage to get the main frame square and the door still catches at the lock/latch.

How do I start from the beginning to get this correct. Should I take the panel out and have a square frame to start with and then insert the panel OR does the packing correct the `square` of the main frame?

Any advice would be appreciated.
thanks

 

[hoponbaby]

They can normally just be adjusted using an allen key on the hinges

 

[scudo]

I have already tried adjusting the hinges but still did not get enough clearance. I got a slight improvement though.

 

[kojidon]

Try to get a fixing through the top of the frame into the wall it might pull the whole thing square if ok add a few more screws further down but dont overtighten just nip or else other fixings you done will become loose.

 

[scudo]

As I not sure of the terminology used in double glazing can I just confirm that the frame that is attached to the wall is square and it is the frame of the door (the bit that opens) that is off square so although I understand what you have said this would still leave the main frame of the actual opening door off square which I had assumed should be corrected with packing. I think I have got that right, sorry if I sound confusing.
scudo

 

[digidude]

look at the hinges, you should have a small grub screw in the side of the hinge, loosen that, now look at the top of the hinge, youll see an allen key hole with a line, turn this so the top hinge line points towards the frame, and tighten the side grub screw, this unig pin is egg shaped to pull or push the door itself within the frame for adjustments like this

 

[scudo]

The hinges dont have a grub screw, I have tried adjusting by turning the `cam` with a screwdriver but as mentioned above it didnt give enough clearance.
(pic below)

 

[oneman]

Can you get the door to close OK without the glass and panel in there, i.e. with just the frame ?

 

[friendzi]

i think the terminaollogy in "toe & heel" sometime the door isnt square to the frame. this can be sorted with inner door panel being packed. and aligned with the door frame.

http://alexanderwindows.com/pdf/toeandheel.pdf

hope this helps

 

[scudo]

Thanks Oneman,
I will give that a go tomorrow when hopefully the rain goes off.

scudo

 

[scudo]

I took the panel out and the door still catches (at the latch part, not the top or bottom), I can see that it is still dropping at the latch end. I pulled the frame upward from the bottom of the door, I get some upward movement but it still stays off plumb, I then put the panel back in situ, adjusted the hinges as much as I could, put packing where I thought it should go and tightened every visible screw, it is a slight improvement but still catching.
I am beginning to think this has been a badly fitted/made door and is possibly been made a couple of mm to wide, even if this is correct I still need to try and correct the droop.

 

[oneman]

If you can't get it to close without the panels in there then I don't think you have much chance with the panel in there so 'heel and toe' (which is the correct expression I believe as I just had all my windows repacked) won't help. So either adjustment in the hinges or get a professional in. They should be able to check it for free and then let you have an estimate of what's required.

 

[scudo]

Playing around with it I have got some more slight improvement, still not perfect but just skimming the latch now.
One issue I think there is is the hinges I kind of noticed after setting them they eventually moved back.
Correct me if I am wrong but the pic of the hinges (page 1) has a cap on it which I removed for the picture, I believe this cap locks the setting, however on the underside of the hinge there is a similar adjusment but no cap (probably fell off at some point) so with no cap underneath any adjustment will go belly up after the door has been opened and closed a few times.

Does this sound feasible?

 

[oneman]

Not sure about the locking mechanism for the hinge but I think I forgot to mention, you can get a better idea if the frame is square if you measure corner to corner.

 

[edogg]

this looks like the frame has warped in the middle to me as it is not the corners that are catching could you drill through the frame above and below the lock and pull it into the wall tighter

edogg

 

[scudo]

drill through the frame above and below the lock and pull it into the wall tighter

I dont think as there is a glass panel to the side.
You can see the `sag` from the pic below especially along the top of the door.

 

[digidude]

the window to the side is a seperatly fabricated unit m8, the strip down the middle hids the join, but, i doubt itd be strong enough to pull the frame for what youre trying to do. looking at the welds in the door compared to the frame, it looks like the whole door is a few mm too close to the opposite side of the frame. the only way to properly sort this, would be to adjust every hinge cam (i couldnt remember the word during my last post lol) to pull the door backwards as much as possible, is the bottom welds on the door out of alaignment with the frame as much as the top welds? has it always been like this? in a worst case, itd need a new frame with the hinges set back about 2-3 mm on the frame itself, another possibility would be to remove one hinge from the frame AND the door, drop it on the door by about 5mm and screw it back onto the frame about 2mm back (if that makes sense)

 

[scudo]

looking at the welds in the door compared to the frame

I will check that out tomorrow, I see what you mean I never noticed that before.

I thnk you maybe right about the hinges as when I look at them internally there is probable not enough room to move them back 2/3 mm so it was a tight fit at installation, when I turn the cams to max only about a mm to spare bertween the hinge and the wall / frame it is attached to.

I dont know how long they have been like this as I have only been in the house a few weeks so just discovering all the problems

 

[scudo]

Yes the bottom is also out of alignment.
I have tweaked some more and it is now just skimming the frame so a vast improvement although with all the comments on this forum and checking on their info I think it has been badly fitted (whenever that was) and probably needs a new door frame. With the adjusments made and me having a better understanding of it I can probably live with it while I get other issues sorted and think about a replacement next year.