HDD Reducing Network Speed

[cascara]

I have done a lot of Googling and asked this question in a computer forum without being any the wiser.

I have recently become aware that plugging in the Openbox HDD is seriously affecting the working speed of the computers (2 or 3) on the network.

After becoming aware of this I have tested and found that if an HDD is plugged into a computer's USB the same speed reduction takes place. However if a flash drive is used for the storage the speed is not affected.

The HDD intended for the Openbox is a 300GB WD SATA. To use in a USB of course an adapter is required.

The HDD is always found when plugged in and works perfectly - the trouble is everywhere else!

The computers and the satellite are connected wirelessly. The router is an Orange Livebox. The computers use 802.11G USB adapters and the satellite receiver uses a Linksys WGA54G Games Adapter.

The testing I have done - all without removing the problem:

Tried 3.5" PATA HDD's inc WD and Maxtor.
Tried a 2.5" SATA Toshiba (60GB) and while this made the network usable it still affected download speed by up to 50%.
Tried three different types of HDD to USB adapter.
Tried different power supplies to the adapters.
Tried different adapter to USB cables if not fixed cables.

I use IE7 but have no retrieval problems when the external HDD is not plugged in.

Just to clarify the 'slowing' at times is really a 'stop' but normally stays on 'Waiting for...' and will carry on once the USB port is emptied.

Any thoughts will be welcomed.

 

[evan_almighty]

Hi Cascara,

Not really sure I understand your problem.
It's impossible for an USB hard disk plugged into your OpenBox or any other computer on your network to directly affect your network speed.

Can you be a bit more specific please? Why are you plugging the HDD into your computers for instance? Are you trying to share what is on it?

Observations: You're using 802.11G which is the slowest wifi connection speed available, running at a maximum theoretical speed of 11Mbps (Megabits per second) I say theoretical for a reason, even a 10Mbps wired network can only handle approximately 40% of that as traffic, before it is saturated, i.e. slots on the network before things become very error prone which exassibates the problem further. Wireless has the same issues, but also has more overheads. So on an 11Mbps I would assume between 4Mbps and 3 Mbps would be the maximum throughput.

Another observation is that USB connections are notoriously slow, if your device is a USB1 device then you're talking 12Mbits/s whereas USB2 capable devices are running at 480Mbits/s. This may sound quick, but in terms of hard disk speeds it's very slow. The drive itself may be very fast but you're actually constrained by the USB interface itself.

Flash drives will always be faster than a hard disk. A flash drive is basically a chunk of memory setup to be used as a hard drive. It's solid state, so no moving parts. Whereas with a hard disk your're always waiting for the hard disk to turn and get to the right place on the disk before it reads of the information, revolves to find the next chunk reads it off etc.

So, can you elaborate any further?

 

[Exos]

I have to be totally honest, the same as evan I really don't understand where the issue is here. I've added some comments below if you can elaborate:

Cheers:

I have done a lot of Googling and asked this question in a computer forum without being any the wiser.

I have recently become aware that plugging in the Openbox HDD is seriously affecting the working speed of the computers (2 or 3) on the network.


[Exos] How? USB/SATA/IDE Drives have no bearing or relevance to network speed and the transfer of data across a network. Are you sharing the drive in some way across computers? and how is this related to the Openbox

After becoming aware of this I have tested and found that if an HDD is plugged into a computer's USB the same speed reduction takes place. However if a flash drive is used for the storage the speed is not affected.

[Exos] I would expect this at a local level, Flash memory does not suffer the same level of slowness as it is not mechanical


The HDD intended for the Openbox is a 300GB WD SATA. To use in a USB of course an adapter is required.

[Exos] It sounds like here you are using a USB > SATA convertor for a standard drive? Is your drive housed in a casing, is it an external or internal drive?

The HDD is always found when plugged in and works perfectly - the trouble is everywhere else!

The computers and the satellite are connected wirelessly. The router is an Orange Livebox. The computers use 802.11G USB adapters and the satellite receiver uses a Linksys WGA54G Games Adapter.

The testing I have done - all without removing the problem:

Tried 3.5" PATA HDD's inc WD and Maxtor.
Tried a 2.5" SATA Toshiba (60GB) and while this made the network usable it still affected download speed by up to 50%.
Tried three different types of HDD to USB adapter.
Tried different power supplies to the adapters.
Tried different adapter to USB cables if not fixed cables.

I use IE7 but have no retrieval problems when the external HDD is not plugged in.

[Exos] Please elaborate how IE7 is relevant to the use of your HD?

Just to clarify the 'slowing' at times is really a 'stop' but normally stays on 'Waiting for...' and will carry on once the USB port is emptied.

[Exos] Where, What, How? Please be more specific over what you are doing

Any thoughts will be welcomed.

 

[cascara]

It's impossible for an USB hard disk plugged into your OpenBox or any other computer on your network to directly affect your network speed.

I know - but it does!

To 'fill in the gaps' - I first of all plugged the HDD into the Openbox. My son then told me his computer was terribly slow in accessing sites. I removed the HDD (safely) and the speed returned to normal.

The obvious suspect was the Openbox USB connector so I then tried plugging the HDD into a computer's port. Exactly the same result also when tried on the other two computers. The HDD was found by all the computers.
All USB's are 2.0.

The flash drive however seems to have no effect on network speed.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[cascara]

@Exos

Thanks for your comments. I shall try to cover the questions you have.

[[Exos] How? USB/SATA/IDE Drives have no bearing or relevance to network speed and the transfer of data across a network. Are you sharing the drive in some way across computers? and how is this related to the Openbox ]

Please see my reply to @Evans's similar point - the illogical reality is that it is happening - but why?

[[Exos] It sounds like here you are using a USB > SATA convertor for a standard drive? Is your drive housed in a casing, is it an external or internal drive?]

No - the 300GB WD is an internal SATA drive which I fitted into an enclosure using the provided adapter. As said originally I have two other stand-alone SATA adapters which I tried. The PATA drives were of course tested with IDE interfaces.

[[Exos] Please elaborate how IE7 is relevant to the use of your HD?]

Trying to avoid the often seen response to a slow access question!

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Exos]

Cascara, I'm sorry but one has nothing to do with the other, there is no possible way in all that is IT that this can happen at a hardware level.

Plugging a USB HDD into another device whether it be a PC or the Openbox cannot affect external network bandwidth (WAN/ADSL/Cable) in any shape or form. There is no interaction with the two unless you specifically set up some form of streaming service/remote access to the drive which the OpenBox cannot do.

If you shared the device across the network and streamed data locally then you might see a performance hit across your LAN, but not WAN. If you then subsequently shared this out to a wider audience such as over the internet, then again you would see a performance hit when it was accessed because you are affecting data passing through your router.

You have something else causing these issues and it may be just co-incidence.

 

[cascara]

You have something else causing these issues

No streaming involved.

Whatever the 'something else' is it is the HDD that triggers it. Having swapped virtually everything I am stumped.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Exos]

Having swapped virtually everything I am stumped

It's totally illogical as has been said and my concern here is that your confusing one event with the affect of another.

You say you have swapped everything, have you tried your router? You do know you don't have to use the one provided by Orange (plus they are usually pretty naff)

 

[cascara]

@Exos

For me I could not justify changing the otherwise trouble free router as I cannot think how it could be the culprit.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Exos]

No streaming involved.

Whatever the 'something else' is it is the HDD that triggers it. Having swapped virtually everything I am stumped.

Thanks for your thoughts.

ADSL/Internet problems are either one of three things, ISP, Router (config, hardware etc etc) or the PC itself (Malware/Spyware etc)...not a HDD.

Hope you sort it out, but for me I would change out the router if your having internet issues.

P.S. This has also probably extended beyond an actual Openbox issue and is probably more suited to an IT forum, however given my experience in IT is beyond 20+ years then you will probably get similar views.

Regards

 

[evan_almighty]

Hi Cascara,

Apologies for this, but I have to agree with Exos on this one, there is no possible connection apart from coincidense.

OK, when this occurs, what web browsing is going on?

Is the drive new, when was it last formatted. When you say connecting it slows things down, do you mean that connecting it to a PC slows that particular PC down or the whole lot?

What is your openbox connected to the lan for? i.e. are you sharing a providers cline? if not why are you connecting it?

I did notice that for the openbox you're using a 54G adapter, what is your router/access point speed rating?

Am not saying I can help you resolve this with these questions, but if you can eliminate the obvious then.........

 

[cascara]

Thank you both for your further thoughts.

I have a similar length of experience in IT to Exos but only the last couple of years on 'networking'.

It was only by my installing the HDD into the Openbox during the daytime did I run against this 'impossibility'. Normally the Openbox would only be running when the computers were idle. Also when plugging the HDD into a computer I would normally just be working on the HDD not accessing the internet.

The Openbox can be ruled out as the cause because the symptoms can be reproduced without it being on. Each computer can similarly be ruled out.

All the drives are visible to Windows and viewable in Partition Magic.

If and when I track down the cause I shall post again.

Thanks again.

 

[evan_almighty]

Like I said previously, a USB attached drive is constrained by the USB port. An internal EIDE/SATA drive will be very much quicker, so that's the cause of your PC slowdown whilst you have it attached, especially if you are working on the USB drive itself.

I suspect the reason your PC is running slow when the OpenBox is switched on is because you have a cline on the Openbox.
Therefore your OpenBox will be constantly interacting with the cline server over the internet, getting and refreshing the decryption codes required.
It is a known issue over a slow internet connection and it's adviseable not to be doing any downloading whilst you are watching something on the OpenBox.

Does that help?

 

[cascara]

@evan almighty

Thanks for your help in trying to make sense of this!

Agreed your reason for slowness when the Openbox is involved but when the Openbox is completely disconnected? If the Openbox is involved but uses a flash drive or the 2.5" 60GB SATA HDD instead of the 3.5" 300GB SATA all is clear or improved respectively.

The only parallel I can think of is when there is an impedance mismatch or a device draws too much current and upsets its own operation and associated devices.

Thanks again

 

[evan_almighty]

@evan almighty

Thanks for your help in trying to make sense of this!

Agreed your reason for slowness when the Openbox is involved but when the Openbox is completely disconnected? If the Openbox is involved but uses a flash drive or the 2.5" 60GB SATA HDD instead of the 3.5" 300GB SATA all is clear or improved respectively.

The only parallel I can think of is when there is an impedance mismatch or a device draws too much current and upsets its own operation and associated devices.

Thanks again

I would think your issue lies with the USB Adapter/Drive Caddy then!

 

[cascara]

I would think your issue lies with the USB Adapter/Drive Caddy then!

Used three different makes of adapter - same result - but thanks anyway!

 

[edogg]

is your internet modem a usb adapter or a cable/adsl modem if the former what kind of usb hub are you using to get the connection for the usb modem and usb hdd

edogg

 

[Spectre]

Is it worth trying analysing the network traffic with Wireshark? It would show any activity which might be useful, it sounds an odd one though.

You'd need to take care unless you have a switch with a special uplink port, borrowing a hub would be better.

You can see all of the traffic on the wireless interface but you'll need a wireless card that can be put in promiscuous mode.

 

[edogg]

is your internet modem a usb adapter or a cable/adsl modem if the former what kind of usb hub are you using to get the connection for the usb modem and usb hdd

edogg

i just re read your original post and unless i am mistaken all your connections are wireless and usb adapters try a powered usb hub to connect everything because i think you are overloading the usb power supplies and the wireless connections with 3 computers and a openbox maybe changing the channels for each computer on the router would help

edogg

 

[cascara]

@Spectre

Thanks for your thoughts but I think I would be out of my depth!

(Being facetious - I am too old to go into 'promiscuous mode').

Thanks anyway.