David Cameron unveils sweeping welfare reforms

[Spectre]

We can't have Labour getting back in though as they will have us straight into the EU. The party is full of Europhiles.

Need the Torys to create a law that there will be an EU referendum, which might see them voted back in.

 

[miggy]

Whoever gets the vote never practice what they preach. There are too many major companies shutting down. Shops boarded up because they cannot afford the rates. Cameron needs to help these people not run them out of business. Its not good practice. Create jobs, help industry don't turn your back and watch everything crumble. If Cameron wants people working then that is the only way forward help repair businesses don't close them down. British Aerospace shut down because its surplus to requirements?. BAE Cuts 600 Jobs As It Shuts Down Factory. What happens if and when WW3 breaks out? this country is finished.

 

[D 8 RCS]

No jobs will ever be created while the government makes those on jobseekers do voluntary work or so called work experience where no money is paid by those who get the "volunteers".
Why would a company want to create a paid job when they can get it done for nothing!!
This "slavery" should be stopped.
Next we need to put new "Qualification Levels" on receiving Benefits, Housing and Free NHS services.
We would not receive these benefits if we moved abroad, so we should ensure those coming here are treated the same way we would be treated if we moved abroad.
Make sure "new qualifiers" for the Benefits have paid into the system for a minimum period before they can qualify. This would certainly stop the majority of those intent on coming here and probably make a large number of those already here want to leave. Those left and those who still want to come here will then be genuine people who wish to work and fully contribute to the upkeep of the country. It would also help subside the feelings of dislike/hatred towards those who come here.
Another thing that could be done is something I said about on another thread, and that is for the staff in the JobSeekers Offices to take a look out of their offices/windows and they will see plenty of obvious leadswingers and scroungers there that could be targeted by investigators that could prove they are scrounging and then prosecute them for fraudulently claiming.
This could be funded by scrapping the "Medical Assessments" done by those muppets ATOS and the money used on training and creating real jobs for properly trained DWP investigators - Two Birds With One Stone !!!!
Remember also that some people on Benefit are Genuine and do need that help !!!

 

[miggy]

No jobs will ever be created while the government makes those on jobseekers do voluntary work or so called work experience where no money is paid by those who get the "volunteers".
Why would a company want to create a paid job when they can get it done for nothing!!
This "slavery" should be stopped.
Next we need to put new "Qualification Levels" on receiving Benefits, Housing and Free NHS services.
We would not receive these benefits if we moved abroad, so we should ensure those coming here are treated the same way we would be treated if we moved abroad.
Make sure "new qualifiers" for the Benefits have paid into the system for a minimum period before they can qualify. This would certainly stop the majority of those intent on coming here and probably make a large number of those already here want to leave. Those left and those who still want to come here will then be genuine people who wish to work and fully contribute to the upkeep of the country. It would also help subside the feelings of dislike/hatred towards those who come here.
Another thing that could be done is something I said about on another thread, and that is for the staff in the JobSeekers Offices to take a look out of their offices/windows and they will see plenty of obvious leadswingers and scroungers there that could be targeted by investigators that could prove they are scrounging and then prosecute them for fraudulently claiming.
This could be funded by scrapping the "Medical Assessments" done by those muppets ATOS and the money used on training and creating real jobs for properly trained DWP investigators - Two Birds With One Stone !!!!
Remember also that some people on Benefit are Genuine and do need that help !!!

Good man D 8 RCS Have you ever thought of becoming a politician mate?. Why can't this Government use your approach to this matter?. Its simple logic really but Cameron is too busy sorting every other Tom,Dick and Mohammed out.

 

[Firemouth]

No jobs will ever be created while the government makes those on jobseekers do voluntary work or so called work experience where no money is paid by those who get the "volunteers".
Why would a company want to create a paid job when they can get it done for nothing!!
This "slavery" should be stopped.
Next we need to put new "Qualification Levels" on receiving Benefits, Housing and Free NHS services.
We would not receive these benefits if we moved abroad, so we should ensure those coming here are treated the same way we would be treated if we moved abroad.
Make sure "new qualifiers" for the Benefits have paid into the system for a minimum period before they can qualify. This would certainly stop the majority of those intent on coming here and probably make a large number of those already here want to leave. Those left and those who still want to come here will then be genuine people who wish to work and fully contribute to the upkeep of the country. It would also help subside the feelings of dislike/hatred towards those who come here.
Another thing that could be done is something I said about on another thread, and that is for the staff in the JobSeekers Offices to take a look out of their offices/windows and they will see plenty of obvious leadswingers and scroungers there that could be targeted by investigators that could prove they are scrounging and then prosecute them for fraudulently claiming.
This could be funded by scrapping the "Medical Assessments" done by those muppets ATOS and the money used on training and creating real jobs for properly trained DWP investigators - Two Birds With One Stone !!!!
Remember also that some people on Benefit are Genuine and do need that help !!!

totally agree here.
but i think we are all getting lost and blaming the wrong people.
yes the welfare bill, for the uk, is large.
but the vast majority of recipients and not doleites or scroungers.
they are hard working people with jobs.

should we not be asking why, people working full time, need benefits to survive?
child and working tax credits are no more than a government subsidy to business.
yet they chide those who receive them as scroungers.

 

[miggy]

totally agree here.
but i think we are all getting lost and blaming the wrong people.
yes the welfare bill, for the uk, is large.
but the vast majority of recipients and not doleites or scroungers.
they are hard working people with jobs.

should we not be asking why, people working full time, need benefits to survive?
child and working tax credits are no more than a government subsidy to business.
yet they chide those who receive them as scroungers.

Innocent working people thought they was doing the right thing applying for tax credits. Its simple you fill in your yearly income send it back to the inland revenue and hey presto bonus time. My God my friend you don't know how wrong you are. After getting tax credits since the scheme came out it was a good help for good hard working people until one day that lovely big white envelope comes through your door. I am sorry to tell you Mr So and So we have been overpaying you? and we want that money back?. So for the next Five years I am paying £100.00 per month back and some people I know owe as much as £10,000 pounds (that's thousands mate). Now I bet there are loads of members on here in the same boat. So thank you for the loan Mr Inland fooking Revenue I, like the majority of the hard working people wish to thank You from the bottom of my arse.Now do you think that is fair mate?????

 

[D 8 RCS]

should we not be asking why, people working full time, need benefits to survive?
child and working tax credits are no more than a government subsidy to business.
yet they chide those who receive them as scroungers.

Before the Working Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits came into force this "benefit" used to be part of your Tax Code and married man's allowance (within the Tax Code). This "benefit" was "paid" exactly the same way your Tax Code is still "paid" allowing you to earn a certain amount before tax was deducted.
As this system was standard and took account of all your details that HMRC have on you it was easily done and everyone eligible was credited with it - no nonsense !
By changing the system (So called Do-Gooders said the married men were not using the married man's allowance for their families !!!) the government has managed to incur huge costs by making everyone have to claim for these Tax Credits "benefits" with extra paperwork, checking and of course mistakes !!
As Miggy says this ended up with many people supposedly overpaid and then being told they had to pay back at punishing amounts. This then resulted in many people not bothering to claim the Tax Credits. Hey Presto !! they have managed to cover the cost of the extra paperwork and form filling by not having to pay those people that are too scared to claim in case they end up in debt.
This of course will not affect the large number of new migrant claimants because they have Help Centres set up all over the country by the government (paid by guess who ? - Yes us). These Centres ensure that all their forms are filled in properly for them, so they don't miss out on what they are entitled to. We wouldn't want to have those poor mites miss out would we !!!
Firemouth, I do however agree with you that these "payments" are a subsidy to business, instead of them having to pay a living wage. But how else would the rich become richer and ensure the poor stay poor and so cannot challenge them and just have to kowtow to them as has always been. Always remember to tug your forelock to the Master.
If common sense was used and easily managed policies were put in place the country could soon get back on its feet, but the big companies would soon lose out and the "players" would be insenced and not financially back the Political Parties. Plus, it would empower the ordinary working man who would then be prepared to stand up for each other which becomes a threat to the monied ruling class.
They are worried enough about the ordinary man becoming very well educated en-masse.
Their Solution ------ Make them pay for their further education (University Fees and Student Loans) that way less apply and those that do are in debt for years and cannot afford to speak up. But if you are monied then you can afford to put your priviledged sibling through the education system.

 

[miggy]

Before the Working Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits came into force this "benefit" used to be part of your Tax Code and married man's allowance (within the Tax Code). This "benefit" was "paid" exactly the same way your Tax Code is still "paid" allowing you to earn a certain amount before tax was deducted.
As this system was standard and took account of all your details that HMRC have on you it was easily done and everyone eligible was credited with it - no nonsense !
By changing the system (So called Do-Gooders said the married men were not using the married man's allowance for their families !!!) the government has managed to incur huge costs by making everyone have to claim for these Tax Credits "benefits" with extra paperwork, checking and of course mistakes !!
As Miggy says this ended up with many people supposedly overpaid and then being told they had to pay back at punishing amounts. This then resulted in many people not bothering to claim the Tax Credits. Hey Presto !! they have managed to cover the cost of the extra paperwork and form filling by not having to pay those people that are too scared to claim in case they end up in debt.
This of course will not affect the large number of new migrant claimants because they have Help Centres set up all over the country by the government (paid by guess who ? - Yes us). These Centres ensure that all their forms are filled in properly for them, so they don't miss out on what they are entitled to. We wouldn't want to have those poor mites miss out would we !!!
Firemouth, I do however agree with you that these "payments" are a subsidy to business, instead of them having to pay a living wage. But how else would the rich become richer and ensure the poor stay poor and so cannot challenge them and just have to kowtow to them as has always been. Always remember to tug your forelock to the Master.
If common sense was used and easily managed policies were put in place the country could soon get back on its feet, but the big companies would soon lose out and the "players" would be insenced and not financially back the Political Parties. Plus, it would empower the ordinary working man who would then be prepared to stand up for each other which becomes a threat to the monied ruling class.
They are worried enough about the ordinary man becoming very well educated en-masse.
Their Solution ------ Make them pay for their further education (University Fees and Student Loans) that way less apply and those that do are in debt for years and cannot afford to speak up. But if you are monied then you can afford to put your priviledged sibling through the education system.

Plain and simple good man :thumbsup:.So now we know the majority of people are paying all there tax credits back because of no fault of there own. Mr Cameron can now sleep sound in his bed tonight knowing he doesn't have to do a stroke to help immigrants after all why should he? when we the general public are already making a mighty fine job of doing it for him?.

 

[Him Her]

Ah, but that would be sensible so it would never work!

It would be simple so we'd all understand it and that would never do would it? A bit like trying to figure out if you should change electricity supplier, since you can't compare anything how can you figure out which one gives the best deal? Go Compare and try it...

NHS treatment entitlement - simple card from your doctor's surgery like the EHIC but stick a photo on it. Security card making stuff is cheap enough. Sure, there'd be a few fakes around but that's a given anyway.

Working Tax Credits? It can't be that hard to slightly amend the tax code system to vary the allowances for salary breaks and hours worked surely???

Of course, I'm such a cynical tw@t I'll be trying to convince you it's a conspiracy next...

 

[Spectre]

What's an average yearly claim for housing, jobseekers etc. worth?

370,000 migrants on benefits - Telegraph

Some interesting links under "related articles" too, particularly: Labour didn’t care who landed in Britain - Telegraph

 

[miggy]

Ah, but that would be sensible so it would never work!

It would be simple so we'd all understand it and that would never do would it? A bit like trying to figure out if you should change electricity supplier, since you can't compare anything how can you figure out which one gives the best deal? Go Compare and try it...

NHS treatment entitlement - simple card from your doctor's surgery like the EHIC but stick a photo on it. Security card making stuff is cheap enough. Sure, there'd be a few fakes around but that's a given anyway.

Working Tax Credits? It can't be that hard to slightly amend the tax code system to vary the allowances for salary breaks and hours worked surely???

Of course, I'm such a cynical tw@t I'll be trying to convince you it's a conspiracy next...

H ffs Doctors have not got the time to see patients let alone pish about with medical cards. In any case that would be a fiddle as well, Doctor Patel will see you now?? No sorry mate the answer is to have a barcode embedded on your forehead fiddle that you slimy barstewards. Synical tw@ hmm leave it :Laugh:

 

[Firemouth]

What's an average yearly claim for housing, jobseekers etc. worth?

370,000 migrants on benefits - Telegraph

Some interesting links under "related articles" too, particularly: Labour didn’t care who landed in Britain - Telegraph

see, there you go, looking for scape goats, and in the wrong place too..falling for the same "half arsed" rhetoric that marks the Tory's as the vile pieces of work they are.

yeah, lets scrap/cut benefits. and ignore the 1.5 million plus who are both, in need and totally innocent of any wrong doing. except of course for not being able to find a job. and at a time when its clear the government has no intention of trying to help create any. quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[Spectre]

370000 immigrants on the dole is somewhat of a problem don't you think? It's maybe £7bn a year.

Labour done its best to open the country to migration.

There are more people to compete for jobs.



Source: France in London | Chomage au Royaume-Uni : la fin d'un El Dorado?

 

[Firemouth]

370000 immigrants on the dole is somewhat of a problem don't you think? It's maybe £7bn a year.

Labour done its best to open the country to migration.

There are more people to compete for jobs.

View attachment 67261

Source: France in London | Chomage au Royaume-Uni : la fin d'un El Dorado?

I both understand and agree.
but 7billion is a piddling figure compared to the un collected tax, in the UK.
this type of xenophobic rhetoric is designed to deflect our attention, from the real problems, and causes of our current problems.
its not Labour, nor migration. its the current governments attempt to blame others for the results their own spiteful plan.
they are actively repressing the attempts to create jobs. and will do so as long as the think we are THICK enough to swallow their dross.

one point, on the NHS. until the Torys got in, we had the most efficient (in terms of GDP spend) health service in the developed world. in less than 2 years its slipped to amongst the most inefficient.

this government is full of spiteful, slimy excuses for humans. and nothing will be fixed till they are no more than a bad memory.

now i fully agree we need to address, all, the problems with welfare, immigration, nhs and the like. but they are a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

 

[Him Her]

An interesting graph, but a decade out of date. Immigrants fall into two basic categories, those we are required to accept (relaxed EU borders) and those we are not (African/Asian). But no effort goes into motivating people to go into areas required does it? That would be a longer term solution to immigration - higher costs for 'useless' education and breaks for the useful.

Wonder how long before a 'UK Spring' or is that an impossible dream.

No matter, the revolution will have to wait until after Wimbledon and the strawberries and cream run out...

 

[miggy]

I both understand and agree.
but 7billion is a piddling figure compared to the un collected tax, in the UK.
this type of xenophobic rhetoric is designed to deflect our attention, from the real problems, and causes of our current problems.
its not Labour, nor migration. its the current governments attempt to blame others for the results their own spiteful plan.
they are actively repressing the attempts to create jobs. and will do so as long as the think we are THICK enough to swallow their dross.

one point, on the NHS. until the Torys got in, we had the most efficient (in terms of GDP spend) health service in the developed world. in less than 2 years its slipped to amongst the most inefficient.

this government is full of spiteful, slimy excuses for humans. and nothing will be fixed till they are no more than a bad memory.

now i fully agree we need to address, all, the problems with welfare, immigration, nhs and the like. but they are a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

How can you say its not migration that is causing the problem mate?.When the minute these people land they are instantly shown the benefit office. To which they are greeted by a translator who then fills all the relevant forms out to make sure these people are set up for life IE housed, and every benefit possible?. Those that do decide to contribute to this Country quickly gain experience on the taxpayers expense and then move back to there own Country fully qualified.???

 

[Him Her]

Statistics are crap.

When selfish greed and apathetic bullsh1t meet, pain follows...

...as has been said, immigration is a symptom.

 

[Spectre]

I both understand and agree.
but 7billion is a piddling figure compared to the un collected tax, in the UK.
this type of xenophobic rhetoric is designed to deflect our attention, from the real problems, and causes of our current problems.
its not Labour, nor migration. its the current governments attempt to blame others for the results their own spiteful plan.
they are actively repressing the attempts to create jobs. and will do so as long as the think we are THICK enough to swallow their dross.

one point, on the NHS. until the Torys got in, we had the most efficient (in terms of GDP spend) health service in the developed world. in less than 2 years its slipped to amongst the most inefficient.

this government is full of spiteful, slimy excuses for humans. and nothing will be fixed till they are no more than a bad memory.

now i fully agree we need to address, all, the problems with welfare, immigration, nhs and the like. but they are a symptom of the problem, not the cause.

Oh, I know it's not all Labour's fault and that immigration is not the root of all evil . Labour are still europhiles though and they shouldn't get back in to finish handing sovereignty to the eurocrats. I was just looking there and it seems EU immigration has declined a bit in the last few years.




Source: BBC News - Q&A: UK immigration cap


I won't be voting Tory either, not unless there is an incontrovertible in/out referendum on EU membership.


This surely can't be helping, not sure why it says "2050" on this chart.



Source: English Democrats on Immigration « Dean Lacey English Democrats

An interesting graph, but a decade out of date. Immigrants fall into two basic categories, those we are required to accept (relaxed EU borders) and those we are not (African/Asian). But no effort goes into motivating people to go into areas required does it? That would be a longer term solution to immigration - higher costs for 'useless' education and breaks for the useful.

Wonder how long before a 'UK Spring' or is that an impossible dream.

I know but it showed the interesting bit. National Statistics should have some graphs on their poor site (http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm:77-235198).

Heres a slightly more up to date one:




Now I can't help but feel that having the prospected number of incoming migrants here may have somewhat of a negative impact on the quality of existence in the UK.



"The impact of an increase in UK population over the next 10 years by 7.7% is expected to continue to feed Britain's INFLATIONARY MEGA-TREND for the next decade as rising population puts extra pressure on Britains capacity constrained infrastructure, pressure on consumer and asset prices, especially house prices and associated costs as well as contributing economically to an increase in nominal GDP growth. Whilst maintaining the expected trend that UK unemployment will remain high for the duration of the next 10 years, no matter what job creation initiatives the government attempts to implement to reduce stubbornly high unemployment levels as between 70% and 80% of new jobs created will go to migrant workers as was the experience under the last Labour government."

Source: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article21565.html

 

[Him Her]

As I said, if employers were taxed to pay for the translation services that public sector provided, migrant workers would not look so great...

 

[D 8 RCS]

one point, on the NHS. until the Torys got in, we had the most efficient (in terms of GDP spend) health service in the developed world. in less than 2 years its slipped to amongst the most inefficient.

And the simple answer to that is how many Managers are there now ?
Jobs for the boys at inflated salary rates !!
For every new manager they put in they probably lost 2-3 ordinary workers (nurses etc) these managers then out sourced as many services as possible to cut costs which in turn cut standards which in turn caused more infections, errors and uncleanlyness which equaled inefficiency.
The out sourcing meant an increase in low paid jobs which usually means workers being part-time or casual labour who are usually migrants and often illegal migrants. This it turn also means those employing them are making larger profits but not paying national insurance for the "casuals" who are usually also not paying tax. This is a lose lose situation for the nation's systems but a win win situation for the out source companies who in turn are no doubt the companies supporting the political parties.
In the old days it was a Matron and Sister who ran the wards and all that was required on them. Now there is a Ward Manager, an Admissions Manager, a Bed Manager, a Hygiene Manager, a Catering Manager, a Shift Manager, an Administration Manager, a Statistics Manager, a Managers Manager and probably a Manager of F**k Ups Manager, then there is the 2 people below them !!!!!