Card Sharing... Ins and Out... ish

[neorage]

With the current loss of a perticular DVB C provider in the UK many have thought to switching to sat and a cardshare..

I will try and explain as simple as possible within forum rules as in what it is how it works and what you can do..

Mods, Experts please correct as necessary just going off top of my head from what ive read.

Cardsharing (C/s) is basically sharing of a subscription card over a network.
In previous times this was possible with a unit similar to a data logger that would transmit it to its client box.. however moost pay cards now have circumvented this.

Basically what happens in a typical home share..
Box1 holds the card, and would make a network accessible share in the form of serial data (similar to how your mobile phones uses serial data to work for the internet for your pc). and allows box 2 to connect to this as if you had plugged a external card reader into your box. In doing so, both boxes send and recieve data to and from the card. fooling the card and the boxes that the card is inseterd at all times..

Now all this is achieved by using a soft cam.. CCam, and Newscam are the popular and easiest to use across most 3rd party STB's

By simply setting an Fline (allowed connection details ) and putting a Cline (the box u wish to connect to. with the correct details) u can share he card available..

now more indepth u can set hops (basically let box 2 share with box 3) but this is something i dunno much about yet

hope that gives u all a basic insite to the pratice.. but remeber keep discussion to a minimum...... no providers or keys to be discussed

 

[neathdrew]

With the current loss of a perticular DVB C provider in the UK many have thought to switching to sat and a cardshare..

I will try and explain as simple as possible within forum rules as in what it is how it works and what you can do..

Mods, Experts please correct as necessary just going off top of my head from what ive read.

Cardsharing (C/s) is basically sharing of a subscription card over a network.
In previous times this was possible with a unit similar to a data logger that would transmit it to its client box.. however moost pay cards now have circumvented this.

Basically what happens in a typical home share..
Box1 holds the card, and would make a network accessible share in the form of serial data (similar to how your mobile phones uses serial data to work for the internet for your pc). and allows box 2 to connect to this as if you had plugged a external card reader into your box. In doing so, both boxes send and recieve data to and from the card. fooling the card and the boxes that the card is inseterd at all times..

Now all this is achieved by using a soft cam.. CCam, and Newscam are the popular and easiest to use across most 3rd party STB's

By simply setting an Fline (allowed connection details ) and putting a Cline (the box u wish to connect to. with the correct details) u can share he card available..

now more indepth u can set hops (basically let box 2 share with box 3) but this is something i dunno much about yet

hope that gives u all a basic insite to the pratice.. but remeber keep discussion to a minimum...... no providers or keys to be discussed

thanks for info....

box 1 does that have to be a particular type of box, or any with i/o port, ie serial, ethernet etc

box 1 is that ur subbed box or a different box using ur subbed card, if not ur subbed box how do u pair card to box?

can this work for cable?

thanks

 

[sakiblateef]

There is already a thread on this by Pinkhelmets.

https://www.digitalworldz.co.uk/index.php?threads/194924/

 

[neorage]

Box 1 would be a dm500s or similar capable of being a card serevr...

box 2 would be any box that is capable of using a compatable soft cam to connect to it..

as for cable.. no.. as the paring system has not been broken to allow c/s

There is already a thread on this by Pinkhelmets.

http://www.digitalworldz.co.uk/19492...rdsharing.html

i completely forgot about this when posting.. lol
with all the chat bout it thought i would make a post.. but PH has done a really good post.. mine is cack in comparison lol

 

[cafe.racer]

So, it seems a good option for a lot of us with a subscription, a FDTV-C and Zeta's would be to, somehow, share the our subscription (N3) card to all the Zeta's?

Am I dreaming?

P.S. I've lost everyone's email address...

 

[Confused Stu]

I think we wouldn't need the Zetas anymore, the box holding the card and hosting the c/s would take the place of the CI & CAM in our current setups.

However, I don't know how we're going to get around the pairing issue and without being able to pair the card to the box holding it, the card won't decrypt a thing.

I'm still trying to get my head around the concept so may be wrong, but I think I've got the basics of the theory at least!

 

[digidude]

an ND$ card will only work in the box that its officially paired to, yet these are working in 3rd party receivers all over the world

 

[Captin]

Does the client box have to have a perminent internet connection to connect with a server box not on the same sub-net or does it only need to sonnect every now and then, say once a month or so.

 

[cafe.racer]

I think we wouldn't need the Zetas anymore, the box holding the card and hosting the c/s would take the place of the CI & CAM in our current setups.

However, I don't know how we're going to get around the pairing issue and without being able to pair the card to the box holding it, the card won't decrypt a thing.

I'm still trying to get my head around the concept so may be wrong, but I think I've got the basics of the theory at least!

I was thinking more like valid bokey on CAM, Subbed Card in CAM, Decryption available over LAN to other CAMs (or via software). Not free cable, but free "multiroom" and saves us junking our setups for something else.

I remember seeing a Diablo wireless.

This is different, I guess, to the kind of c/s everyone else is talking about.

 

[sakiblateef]

Some DT08 Nagra 3 cards exist for satellite which require only the Box key for pairing and not rsa key. It could be a possiblity that some Virgin boxes may get these cards.

They won't work in Newcamd as DT06 cards with rsa key are supported only though another emulator called regast apparently reads these particular N3 sat cards.

When new Virgin cards are more widespread then we can begin to experiment.

 

[Parad0x]

as for cable.. no.. as the paring system has not been broken to allow c/s

It has

Also, VM engineers in Essex are giving out rom 180 cards as of today...

 

[nozzer]

Some DT08 Nagra 3 cards exist for satellite which require only the Box key for pairing and not rsa key. It could be a possiblity that some Virgin boxes may get these cards.

From what I understand, this only works because the CAM writer has hardcoded the rsa keys for certain providers.

In order to decrypt an a DT08, you must have the IRD_N rsa key, the CamId, the IRD No and the relevant boxkey (which doesn't have to be the same as the N1 boxkey).

The algorithm to decrypt the DT08 is relatively well known and can be found by examing the source code for many Softcams. Stangely, the public softcam sources dont contain the above mentioned provider rsa keys !

They won't work in Newcamd as DT06 cards with rsa key are supported only though another emulator called regast apparently reads these particular N3 sat cards.

DT06 is a different method of transfering the same information as the DT08 transfers. In both cases, you need the relevant rsa modulus. The DT06 actually transfers more info as its manipulation generates a full rsa pq pair from which both public and private exponents as well as the modulus can be derived. Again, it may be useful to refer to the public softcam sources for a better understanding of the algorithms involved with DT06 decryption.

btw, because the card takes no part in the encryption/decryption of DT08's (the card simply stores the information and returns it to the stb when requested) it is theoretically possible for a provider to encrypt them in any way it chooses. If, for instance, a stb was too slow to run rsa decryption then its possilbe a DT08 could be, say, DES, encrypted or any other algorithm they fancy. The weak spot with the DT08 though, is always going to be the fact that its the stb that decrypts/interprets them and stb's are relatvely easy to get into !

 

[sakiblateef]

From what I understand, this only works because the CAM writer has hardcoded the rsa keys for certain providers.

In order to decrypt an a DT08, you must have the IRD_N rsa key, the CamId, the IRD No and the relevant boxkey (which doesn't have to be the same as the N1 boxkey).

The algorithm to decrypt the DT08 is relatively well known and can be found by examing the source code for many Softcams. Stangely, the public softcam sources dont contain the above mentioned provider rsa keys !



DT06 is a different method of transfering the same information as the DT08 transfers. In both cases, you need the relevant rsa modulus. The DT06 actually transfers more info as its manipulation generates a full rsa pq pair from which both public and private exponents as well as the modulus can be derived. Again, it may be useful to refer to the public softcam sources for a better understanding of the algorithms involved with DT06 decryption.

btw, because the card takes no part in the encryption/decryption of DT08's (the card simply stores the information and returns it to the stb when requested) it is theoretically possible for a provider to encrypt them in any way it chooses. If, for instance, a stb was too slow to run rsa decryption then its possilbe a DT08 could be, say, DES, encrypted or any other algorithm they fancy. The weak spot with the DT08 though, is always going to be the fact that its the stb that decrypts/interprets them and stb's are relatvely easy to get into !

Very informative post mate.

Do you think all Virgin cards will be DT08 or just some?

 

[nozzer]

Very informative post mate.

Do you think all Virgin cards will be DT08 or just some?

tbh, its doubtful they will all be DT08. I'd guess it will be mostly a mixture of DT08 and secondary key methods with the odd sprinkling of DT06 on certain boxes, similar to whats happened in Ireland.

The method used partly depends on the manufacturer of the box and its age/capabilities. VM obviously have this info and select the correct information for the card based on this info.

btw, if you have a card, then its relatively easy to use NagraEdit etc to dump the DT06/DT08 tiers so you can make a good guess as to which pairing method is used. You just use a script to send standard tier requests to the card, exactly like the stb does at startup.

 

[2tone]

out of intrest if you use tier info lite dose it show this if its dt06 or dt08 and would this be what we would be looking for Data Type $08 or am i looking it the wrong way

 

[nozzer]

out of intrest if you use tier info lite dose it show this if its dt06 or dt08 and would this be what we would be looking for Data Type $08 or am i looking it the wrong way

TierInfoLite is really only for N1 cards but you can use a similar technique to get the tiers on N2/N3 cards.

There was a quick and dirty NagraEdit script posted on another forum last night (and then removed) that asked the card for DT06/DT08 tiers and told you how to interpret the results so you could decide what your card/box pairing method was.

Anybody that can write a few lines of NagraEdit script should be able to duplicate this prety easily.

 

[sakiblateef]

TierInfoLite is really only for N1 cards but you can use a similar technique to get the tiers on N2/N3 cards.

There was a quick and dirty NagraEdit script posted on another forum last night (and then removed) that asked the card for DT06/DT08 tiers and told you how to interpret the results so you could decide what your card/box pairing method was.

Anybody that can write a few lines of NagraEdit script should be able to duplicate this prety easily.

I saw that post as well it was very informative though I don't understand why it was removed as it wasn't breaking any laws. Anyways I've spotted the same post now duplicated on another forum the scripts will be useful for experimental purposes when my area goes to N3.

 

[2tone]

Ok can under stand that being only for n1 cards was just thinking when i saw the post aboput tiers and remember using that know therer was some thing like that done for n2 cards before sort of the same as TierInfoLite not sure if there was anything done before for n3 but as you say there is a script doing the rounds