Starting Over: Dish alignment

[EMPB]

I'll be re aligning my Dish next month as I am sick of getting nothing from 4W, when I know I used to get and should get some of the Europe Beams (also lost ENTV on 5W).

My East Arc is set up stronger at Present (Badr4 26E superb even in bad weather). But I think the Dish was Aligned in a hurry on 13E and adjusted on 26E last time, need to do it right on 0.8W/1W this time (my reception Satellite Arc is generally 45E to 45W, although 47.5E would be a nice addition).

I seem to remember the Baltic Beams were the weakest receivable ones in the UK at 0.8W/1W but I can't remember the frequencies to use, can anyone help?

I'm using a Triax TD110 & will prob replace the LNB and use a Inverto Quad LNB to supply my Topfield twin tuner, Manhattan twin tuner, Spiderbox HD9000 and Humax HD receivers.

empb

Edit: NB I a'm also considering adding C-Band but it would be an offset LNB ie something like:

don't know what type of arm but would be Ku-Band Prime, C-Band offset, anyone think this would work for 3.1E C-Band in the UK and any other C-Band between 47.5E and 42.5W

 

[jamsb]

Here are some references for you.

This guide is to assist in setting up a satellite dish (motorised or fixed)
53 east to 45 west in DVB-S unless stated
80cm wide x 88 cm high Mesh Dish + ***** DarkGold 0.1 Lnb


Strongest Transponders
Express AM22 at 53.0°E Arezu TV 11660 H 2170
Intelsat 12 at 45.0°E Prima TV 11523 V 5787
Türksat 2A at 42.0°E CNN Türk 11804 V 244444
Hellas Sat 2 at 39.0°E The Voice 12524 H 30000
Eutelsat 36B at 36.0°E Lider TV 12520 H 4340
Eutelsat 33A at 33.2°E TV 8 Mont Blanc 11105 H 2441
Eutelsat 28A at 28.5°E Euronews 11344 V 27500
Astra 2F at 28.2°E Channel 5 10964 H 22000
Badr 4 at 26.0°E Al Manar 11958 H 27500
Astra 3B at 23.5°E TV Noord 11914H 27500
Eutelsat 21B at 21.5°E Yemen Today TV 11601 V 2170
Astra 2C at 19.2°E Das Erste 11836 H 27500
Eutelsat 16A at 16.0°E TVR News 11471 V 29950
Eutelsat Hot Bird 13A at 13.0°E Bloomberg 11137 H 27500
Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E Aljazeera Package 11400 H 7815
Eutelsat 9A at 9.0°E CCTV 9 Docu 11938 H 27500
Eutelsat 7A at 7.0°E TRT Anadolu 11455 V 20050
Astra 4A at 4.8°E RADA 11766 H 27500
Eutelsat 3C at 3.1°E TV5 Europe 12740 H 12622
Thor 5 at 0.8°W BBC World News 11861 H 28000
Amos 2 at 4.0°W Unian TV 10721 H 27500
Eutelsat 5 West A at 5.0°W France Ô 11591 V 20000
Eutelsat 7 West A at 7.3°W Qatar TV 10719 V 22000
Eutelsat 8 West A at 8.0°W NRT 11074 H 3000
Express AM44 at 11.0°W TG Norba 24 11551 1600
Eutelsat 12 West A at 12.5°W Record News 12655 H 4285
Telstar 12 at 15.0°W Zagros TV 10996 V 5090
Intelsat 901 at 18.0°W Data AOL 11605 H 8500
SES 4 at 22.0°W Reuters Live 10985 H 7200
Intelsat 905 at 24.5°W NTA Int 11674 V 27500
Intelsat 907 at 27.5°W Freeview (Encrypted) 11495 V 44100 DVB-S2
Hispasat 1E at 30.0°W Record Europa 10890 V 27500
Intelsat 903 at 34.5°W Data Stream 11027 v 5000 DVB-S2
Telstar 11N at 37.5°W DoveVision 11064 V 1445
Intelsat 14 at 45.0°W RASD TV 11608 H 1852

Weakest Transponders
(Satellites with only strong transponders excluded from this list)
Express AM22 at 53.0°E TRK Nadym 10995 H 3255
Türksat 3A at 42.0°E TRT Müzik 12569 H 2800
Eutelsat 36B at 36.0°E Al Jazeera Channel 12621 V 2893
Badr 4 at 26.0°E MBC tv 11919 H 27500
Eutelsat 21B at 21.5°E Al Falstiniah TV 10978 V 2170
Eutelsat 16A at 16.0°E Albanian Screen 11108 V 2821
Eutelsat 10A at 10.0°E IFilm 12619 V 9000
Eutelsat 7A at 7.0°E TRT Turk 10761 V 30000
Astra 4A at 4.8°E 1st Baltic Music 11843 H 27500
Eutelsat 3C at 3.1°E Speda TV 12671 V 2200
Intelsat 10-02 at 1.0°W Realitatea 12687 H 27500
Amos 2 at 4.0°W Novy Ch 10757 H 30000
Eutelsat 5 West A at 5.0°W Canal Algeria 11059 H 23700
Eutelsat 7 West A at 7.3°W Al-Nahar Sport 12437 V 27500
Express AM44 at 11.0°W Retecapri 11566 H 8000
Telstar 12 at 15.0°W MAC TV 12608 H 19279
This list was compiled by William-1

All credits to William 1.

Hope this helps. jamsb.

 

[EMPB]

So is William 1's Dish set up in the same location as me North West England? (I should have stated my location in my first post of this thread!!!)

Otherwise list is useless for me. What may be one persons weakest transponder at there reception area, for someone else living at a different location in Europe it will be different for them.

thanks

 

[jamsb]

Cant say where William 1 location is.

Its simply a pointer as to what is weaker/stronger on different sats which is pretty much universal given there are no obstructions at your location..

I use diseq to setup on differing sats as i find usual's not so accurate.

I hope this helps it is only a pointer. jamsb.

 

[Zorch]

Hi EMPB & jamsb,

Cant say where William 1 location is.

My friend william-1 is located in Essex, SE England

I hope this helps...

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[Zorch]

Hi again EMPB,

Perhaps digi247 & mdt can help you mate... they are both VERY knowledgeable in this regard... and they are both located in your general area...

I hope this helps...

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[Abu Baniaz]

It would be handy to have a dish alignment bouquet.

 

[mdt]

hi m8 for aligning intelsat 10-02@1west i use 11.862.H to find it and 12.687.V to peak the signal. atm im using a TD110 and smart titanium and recieve about 300 channels from amos@4west although only those in the 10.7 to 10.95 sub band. entv@5west on the streerable beam comes and goes. you should recieve some stuff in c-band on 20east,3east,5west and 40west but dont expect a great deal. as long as you have line of site you should get 62e to 58w on a usals motor as i get 57e to 45w here. the inverto black ultra quad isnt as good as the single or twin,regards mdt

 

[EMPB]

So which LNBs do you recommend. If feeding two receivers only.....

Or which Quad if feeding four receivers....

and which C-Band LNB do you recommend?

 

[mdt]

So which LNBs do you recommend. If feeding two receivers only.....

Or which Quad if feeding four receivers....

and which C-Band LNB do you recommend?

for feeding 2 recievers a black ultra twin but if using a quad personally id go with a smart titanium... the black ultra quad isnt a bad lnb its just not as good as the single or twin. theres the octagon optima lnb,s that are also getting good feedback. can you not fit a fixed for the twin tuner stb,s or are they hooked up to the motorised aswell?. the c-band lnb,s available are just the ones you see on google at about £45 for lnb,bracket and c-band scalar feed, they are just shipped from america or prc and they are the ones all the c-band enthusiasts use and are about 17 to 20k nf. i have my own personall favourites and recommendations for fixed,multi-lnb or motorised wheras others will have theirs. ive tried halve a dozen lnb,s on my td110 but im getting the best results from a 10 year old smart titanium,regards mdt

 

[cappuccino99]

Ku-Band Prime, C-Band offset, anyone think this would work for 3.1E C-Band in the UK and any other C-Band between 47.5E and 42.5W

you shouldn't miss, and a good one to start with.

I'd forget the c band lnb's feedhorn even if it is an offset one, just don't fit it so you can get them as close as possible as you are pushing it on C Band on a 1.1. Also cover the C Band lnb's cap with plastic to make it waterproof as C Band lnbs are designed for prime focus dishes which means they always face down so only usually have drain holes but on offset dishes they point upward.

You can make a second lnb holder easy enough for a c band lnb with a U bolt - 65mm I think (can't remember tbh).

In offset on a motorised it isn't as good as you move away from the top of the arc as if you use an inclined actuator & fit it above the ku lnb so you get all the focus (not easy on a Triax ) & at 1.m- 1.05m you are already on the limit. There's a lot of C Band up there though, don't forget there's circular & linear so access to swap the dielectric plate's not a bad idea either.

 

[killdeer]

mdt, you say you're getting the best results from a 10 year old Smart Titanium lnb, I was wondering how much of an improvement the third generation one would be over yours

I bought one of these recently but haven't got round to trying it out yet as it always seems to be really windy. At present I'm using a Black Ultra and I intend to compare the two ensuring that the weather conditions are exactly the same when doing the comparison.

I'm not too concerned for the stronger satellites but aim to see which lnb performs best on say Nilesat at 7 west etc.

 

[mdt]

mdt, you say you're getting the best results from a 10 year old Smart Titanium lnb, I was wondering how much of an improvement the third generation one would be over yours

I bought one of these recently but haven't got round to trying it out yet as it always seems to be really windy. At present I'm using a Black Ultra and I intend to compare the two ensuring that the weather conditions are exactly the same when doing the comparison.

I'm not too concerned for the stronger satellites but aim to see which lnb performs best on say Nilesat at 7 west etc.

i have had nothing but problems with inverto black ultra lnb,s... 1 didnt work at all and the other 2 (1 brand new and 1 used) both give me 5-6 db loss on cbs action 11.222.h on eutelsat 28a and a couple of transponders on hotbird gave no signal at all. the mk1 smart titanium ive found better than the mk2 or mk3 but only marginally. im only using the 10 year old lnb as i have a few of them off an old visiosat toroidal dish i once had. i am getting about 1db more on some txp,s but less on some stronger birds. the only way you will find out is try it yourself if you have easy access to your dish. as for c-band using a td110 is only good for experiments and for serious c-band a minimum of 1.5m but more like 1.8m is needed but thats the fun of it all seeing what you can get with your set up. regards mdt

 

[mdt]

the 6 degree offset does work on a td110 although reception site is down south. thanks to satellites.**.**/@vipersan for the picture. regards mdt

 

[cappuccino99]

the 6 degree offset does work on a td110 although reception site is down south. thanks to satellites.**.**/@vipersan for the picture. regards mdt

No one said it doesn't work, but getting the C band closer to the KU in the focus by losing the feedhorn is a better trade off on a smaller dish, I've fitted several of the C Band offset feedhorn designs & tested them with or without feedhorns and unless you have a serious interference problem you'll be better off on a small dish without it to get closer to the focus, you make a feedhorn that has a cut out for the ku though, even better.

 

[mdt]

so your saying drop the scalar feed on a off-set arrangment for better results then? what about as a prime focus? ive been toying with the idea and have done alot of reading on it and results seem to vary with dielectric plate or no plate, pre-made scalar ring/home made scalar ring. ive got an old iss 1m here and im considering adding a c-band lnb for experiments as personally i dont like the off-set idea and adding an inclanation jack,v-box to my gibby 1.25 or td110 is beyond me although ive never seriously looked into it. what do you mean by make a feedhorn that has a cut-out for the ku? is it so you can add your ku lnb and c lnb on the same feed? regards mdt

 

[cappuccino99]

on a smaller offset dish with a c band in offset - yes, just drop the feedhorn or do a cut out version- the hole that the ku band lnb's feed horn fills will do more or less the job of the bit that's missing anyway & cut a bit of the c feedhorn's scala rings away to make sure the ku can still see all the dish, should do 80%-90% of the original shielding wise - it would be the same for a prime focus & you had a side by side ku/c setup but obviously it's a flat feedhorn.

They wouldn't be in the same feed but still side by side, touching, although it's an idea & you do get combi's but they usually lose too much.

A dielectric plate converts the C Band LNB which is by default linear (H & V like a universal lnb) to circular (L & R). If you just put a 13k C Band LNB with or without feedhorn on the ISS 1m taped on the lnb holder focused & skewed correctly & aimed it at 3e (I'd use a ku band LNB to get the right aim 1st) you should pull in the horizontal C Band on there quite easily. The circular on there goes somewhere else otherwise you'd get that too with the plate inserted.

 

[EMPB]

So as the majority of C-Band in the UK (on the Satellites mentioned earlier in this thread by mdt) have L / R circular polorization I would need to leave the dielectric plate fitted. Or remove it to get alignment with strong Linear 3E C-Band transmission and then re-fit it as I would want to get the circular L / R channels?

 

[mdt]

So as the majority of C-Band in the UK (on the Satellites mentioned earlier in this thread by mdt) have L / R circular polorization I would need to leave the dielectric plate fitted. Or remove it to get alignment with strong Linear 3E C-Band transmission and then re-fit it as I would want to get the circular L / R channels?

i remember back in the analogue days at 11 or 14 west i used to get apna tv (analogue ntsc)on 11.525r on a standard set up with h/v poloriser and it will pull them in although you should use the plate from what i can gather as it gives you that extra 1/2db you need. you can make your own plate from synthetic chopping board as this seems to give good results although trial and error is the best way. i havent tried it yet so cant give you a concrete answer for our neck of the woods. im sure @cappuccino99 will tell you his findings with or without the plate installed. regards mdt

 

[cappuccino99]

i remember back in the analogue days at 11 or 14 west i used to get apna tv (analogue ntsc)on 11.525r on a standard set up with h/v poloriser and it will pull them in although you should use the plate from what i can gather as it gives you that extra 1/2db you need. you can make your own plate from synthetic chopping board as this seems to give good results although trial and error is the best way. i havent tried it yet so cant give you a concrete answer for our neck of the woods. im sure @cappuccino99 will tell you his findings with or without the plate installed. regards mdt

You can receive circular or linear in an lnb with or without a dielectric plate if you can get enough signal in it, it will still impart so much of it's energy on the antenna and at that point it's the same to the lnb & receiver just as a horizontally polarized signal on a vertical antenna, if there's no conflict & it's strong enough to lock you can receive it.
There can be quite a difference with or without a dielectric plate for circular though & using a 1m dish you need every last drop but inserting a dielectric plate has it's own associated losses & leaving it in for linear is a bit like putting a pencil in front of the feedhorn, I think it's about 1/2 or -3dB, I'd just start with 3e linear c band, best place to start & that should come in next to a ku lnb on a motorised 1m.