Young Brits and their communication skills

[Munkey]

Wrong m8. Education is a 2 way process. Teaching and learning. If a pupil does not want to put the effort in then what the fook can a teacher do?
Its got to be down to the parenting in a lot of cases. If it was poor teaching then the whole nation would be thick.

I agree that education is a two way process and that parents have a huge role to play in help the child through school. However I do also believe that as a nation we are getting left behind by countries with much better education systems than us. I can only speak for the industry that I work in by in, all of the senior position guys that I have hired are all Finns, Japs, Americans and Koreans. All of these guys are academically smarter than their equivalent counter part in the UK.

I have also been interviewing over the last fornight for a junior position that has opened up in my company. The calibre of the candidates coming through the door has been extremely high - I am looking for fresh graduates to fill this position.

So far all of them have been intelligent and articulate, the hardest part has been trying to decide which one to take over the others. As we are an IT company, looks are not important - the skills and potential strengths are much more important...

As IANB says, this has nothing to do with teaching in the UK, his reasons are entirely valid and correct.

Munkey - are you recruiting by yourself or are you using an agency?

I am happy that you have managed to source some successful candidates for your place of work. In my experience IT is one of the areas that we have fallen massively behind in. 4 years ago I had a team of J2ME developers working on a project, each developer earn on average £60k with the team leader much more. These types of rates were unrealistic in the global market for us. Since we moved the most of R&D to S Korea and India I found we could slash costs by 80% and at the same time find a much more motivated and creative workforce. If you take out the cream of IT guys from the top 5 universities the rest of the students are pretty poorly equipped to be working in complex projects which involve a lot of brain power.

Education IS a one way process fella. A 4 year old has to be stimulated because they cannot know what's what at that age. Thats when education starts, not when they are 14, by then it's too late.
Teachers are governed by targets and political correctness. It's not the fault of most teachers, it stems from crap government ministers.
Also there is nothing worse for a child than to have a boring and uninspiring teacher, of which there are some, if a child loses interest he won't learn.
On a separate slant, I am a strong disbeliever in children having to do homework. Because those kids with supportive parents are always going to do better than those whose parents don't care. Grossly unfair.

I'm not sure about the homework part as I always encourage extra circular activities and work outside of school to my 5 year old. I think you spot on however with the level of teaching in this country, IMO it is diabolical. We really are not pushing our children at all (we could learn a lot from the Japanese!)

You should reply in kind & say that your name is:

Ramitin Bawdeep Or
Minjita Punani

Minjita Punani QUALITY! :roflmao:

As a footnote I think we are a nation of dipshits because we have sold out our schools and universities. Universities have become businesses and schools have become a statistic to use in political campaigns. The UK is one of the best places to f*ck someone over and make a quick buck without anybody getting hurt or even knowing about it, our kids are a prime example of this.

 

[karym6]

I dont think I agree with you on the topic of students - you dont hire them and expect them to fit straight into any sort of project team, they just dont have enough real world experience.

We have experienced devs here now who are very weak when it comes to working on a project. But then again, you dont hire a IT graduate to be a good project worker, you hire them to code for you. Afterall, thats what analysts are for?

IT project management technique changes faster than a student can graduate, so it isnt fair to expect them to understand the finer points of the methodology you are using.

I understand your frustration with education in the UK, but it simply isnt that bad - otherwise we wouldnt be getting so many overseas students wishing to attend uni here. Also, do you not think that shifting a lot of your work overseas is helping the situation here?

 

[pipsqueaker]

I dont think I agree with you on the topic of students - you dont hire them and expect them to fit straight into any sort of project team, they just dont have enough real world experience.

We have experienced devs here now who are very weak when it comes to working on a project. But then again, you dont hire a IT graduate to be a good project worker, you hire them to code for you. Afterall, thats what analysts are for?

IT project management technique changes faster than a student can graduate, so it isnt fair to expect them to understand the finer points of the methodology you are using.

I understand your frustration with education in the UK, but it simply isnt that bad - otherwise we wouldnt be getting so many overseas students wishing to attend uni here. Also, do you not think that shifting a lot of your work overseas is helping the situation here?

This thread is not about undergraduates.
It is about COMMUNICATION SKILLS, these must be taught as soon as the child goes to nursery.
It's no good trying to get a degree in any discipline and then honing COMMUNICATION SKILLS

 

[ice2004]

This thread is not about undergraduates.
It is about COMMUNICATION SKILLS, these must be taught as soon as the child goes to nursery.
It's no good trying to get a degree in any discipline and then honing COMMUNICATION SKILLS

I knew plenty of well educated and well spoken people who adopted fucking stupid "street talk" probably from people like Ali G, 50 Cent etc so its got jack shit to do with education. These half wits thought it would be cool to be like their idols and speak like fucking rejects.

Just look at kids idols these days: Footballers, rappers and generally any bloody famous halfwit.

If you put them all together you would probably have an IQ of 10 and a language close to caveman. This is where i see a problem.

 

[pipsqueaker]

Hi Munkey
What you said about homework proves my point.
You obviously care about your kid's schoolwork.
Many many don't and then the kids are disadvantaged and possibly feel inferior and the slippery slope gathers pace.

 

[IANB]

Hi Munkey
What you said about homework proves my point.
You obviously care about your kid's schoolwork.
Many many don't and then the kids are disadvantaged and possibly feel inferior and the slippery slope gathers pace.

I think you are missing the point m8. It is a parents resposnsibilty to ensure their child is properly encouraged and supported with home work and study. You can just say because some cant be arsed then no homework should be given and more pressure piled on to teachers. I agree its sad if a child is not suported by their parent and yes they will be dissadvantaged but thats the parents failing not the teacher.

If someone wants a decent education then homework and study is essential.
My Daughter is just going into teaching and has her hounors degree in Maths.
She done really well at school gaining great grades but i know the amount of her own time she put in at home. I was lucky that she was a self starter and didnt need much pushing but i know for sure she would not acheived what she has without home study.

 

[karym6]

This thread is not about undergraduates.
It is about COMMUNICATION SKILLS, these must be taught as soon as the child goes to nursery.
It's no good trying to get a degree in any discipline and then honing COMMUNICATION SKILLS

the thread started off describing how hard it is to get hold of graduates of a certain calibre, this included communication skills.

I think it unlikely munkey will be trying to employ any key stage 3 students just now...

 

[pipsqueaker]

the thread started off describing how hard it is to get hold of graduates of a certain calibre, this included communication skills.

I think it unlikely munkey will be trying to employ any key stage 3 students just now...

Goodness me
What goes on here.
You learn communication when you learn to speak, NOT AT UN IVERSITY

 

[karym6]

Goodness me
What goes on here.
You learn communication when you learn to speak, NOT AT UN IVERSITY

i think you may have rather missed the point a little.

 

[Munkey]

I dont think I agree with you on the topic of students - you dont hire them and expect them to fit straight into any sort of project team, they just dont have enough real world experience.

Also, do you not think that shifting a lot of your work overseas is helping the situation here?

I didn't hire these students because they are very poor communicators. Working in a team and building experience would not change the way they talk, they would naturally become smarter and grow to understand the business model but they would still talk the same way.

Shifting work overseas - I really don't see the relevance to my rant about communication skills or lack of them but here goes. I don't owe an allegiance to anyone except my family and friends. Business has no friends. You go where the money is. I try to help by paying my taxes and plenty of them, if the government decide not to put that back into the country then so be it, I have no conscience about where or who I employ.

I knew plenty of well educated and well spoken people who adopted fucking stupid "street talk" probably from people like Ali G, 50 Cent etc so its got jack shit to do with education. These half wits thought it would be cool to be like their idols and speak like fucking rejects.

Just look at kids idols these days: Footballers, rappers and generally any bloody famous halfwit.

If you put them all together you would probably have an IQ of 10 and a language close to caveman. This is where i see a problem.

Excellent point mate, these 'role models' really don't help much except teach you the virtues of vanity and selfishness, but if you dont naturally talk like Ali G then surely you can put the accent on hold during an interview (or maybe it just becomes second nature). Maybe when our kids grow up they want to be like Tilia fooking Tequila :Clap:..maybe Dirty Sanchez....and all the other losers on MTV.

Goodness me
What goes on here.
You learn communication when you learn to speak, NOT AT UN IVERSITY

Welcome to the forums..
Its a fair point and I agree with you. However we do go through a lot of changes especially during our teens where we could be heavily influenced by role models that we are exposed to leading to a change in the way that we speak. But you're dead right we don't learn to communicate at university, its a bit too late by them IMHO.



Any ideas on how the whole trend can be reversed or are we screwed as a nation?

 

[karym6]

yes... but business is also about making investment and developing your staff. Without making good use of local talent, you will miss out.

For instance, if my company was only interested in doing it as cheaply as possible, then the whole development would be shipped over to Poland or Romania.

I think your point on teamwork not improving communication is wrong - exposing people to this sort of work cultivates improvements in communication, or not. Essentially, if you want graduates you get what you pay for.

If you are recruiting by yourself, be prepared to put the effort in. If you dont want to do that, then go see a recruitment agency and they will sift the dross out for you.

Finally, pipsqueaker - we learn to talk yes, however communication is an art that we develop over time. You are contradicting yourself to suggest otherwise. University will allow some students to develop greater talent for communication...

 

[Munkey]

yes... but business is also about making investment and developing your staff. Without making good use of local talent, you will miss out.

For instance, if my company was only interested in doing it as cheaply as possible, then the whole development would be shipped over to Poland or Romania.

I think your point on teamwork not improving communication is wrong - exposing people to this sort of work cultivates improvements in communication, or not. Essentially, if you want graduates you get what you pay for.

If you are recruiting by yourself, be prepared to put the effort in. If you dont want to do that, then go see a recruitment agency and they will sift the dross out for you.

Finally, pipsqueaker - we learn to talk yes, however communication is an art that we develop over time. You are contradicting yourself to suggest otherwise. University will allow some students to develop greater talent for communication...

I'm just curious but what experience do you have in running a company and what actual examples are based upon.

I dont think I agree with you on the topic of students - you dont hire them and expect them to fit straight into any sort of project team, they just dont have enough real world experience.

We have experienced devs here now who are very weak when it comes to working on a project. But then again, you dont hire a IT graduate to be a good project worker, you hire them to code for you. Afterall, thats what analysts are for?

IT project management technique changes faster than a student can graduate, so it isnt fair to expect them to understand the finer points of the methodology you are using.

I understand your frustration with education in the UK, but it simply isnt that bad - otherwise we wouldnt be getting so many overseas students wishing to attend uni here. Also, do you not think that shifting a lot of your work overseas is helping the situation here?

What do you mean by the overseas part?

I do appreciate your feedback but what do your above comments have to do with young Brits and their communication skills, how does them having or not having a good understanding of the methodology involved in our business improve their use of the English language. I really don't see the connection

 

[karym6]

running a company, no experience at all, its not something I would like to do right now. As to experience in general, only the experience I have had since leaving university myself. Part of my experience has seen me interview people for roles in all the companies I have worked for, primarliy telecoms and more recently software development.

As to my comment about overseas, well you are commenting that you are hving problems with finding candidates in the UK who are able to engage in conversation with you and that you have moved a portion of your business overseas. I would presume that the communication needs from this arm of the business are not as important as the sales side of things? Once you move sections of you workforce outside the country you work in, communication then becomes very difficult indeed.

My opinion on this? I think you are doing a diservice to many of the graduates based out of the UK. A large number of the ones I have seen over the last few weeks, they have been very able on the generic communications front. Comments such as "we are a nation of dipshits" can rarely be taken out of context.

Also, did you ever find the right person for the job?

 

[Munkey]

My opinion on this? I think you are doing a diservice to many of the graduates based out of the UK. A large number of the ones I have seen over the last few weeks, they have been very able on the generic communications front. Comments such as "we are a nation of dipshits" can rarely be taken out of context.

Also, did you ever find the right person for the job?

Thanks for your comments karym6 and whilst I appreciate your ideological thoughts, with respect I feel you are a little naive in your thinking as you lack the experience of running your own business.

So far as doing a disservice to the students of the country - :err: Wow that comment is such a load of rubbish. Your thoughts are completely irrational and have no ground what so ever. Do you ever think about what you write here as some of the stuff is hilarious and offensive at the same time? I wont even bother discussing this point with you as I'd make you feel a fool for making such a ridiculous comment.

I feel you don't have the experience in working within the industry to make any comments even though you claim to work in telecoms R&D. South Korea and Finland and the global leaders in telecoms R&D, the level of undergraduates knowledge and all round performance is much higher there than over here. The people we have working for us over there have better technical and communication skills than the vast majority of people we have working for us over here (in fact they speak better grammatical English than most people in this country) Have you ever compared candidates from different countries? If you had you wouldn't be indulging yourself with the thoughts that us Brits are smarter than others or have better communication skills than others from around the world as this simply is not the case.

Unfortunately I haven't found the right candidate for the job. It looks like I may have to go down the import route if something doesn't come up very soon

Heres a thought - Ever wondered why our favorite exported programs such as Eastenders need to be broadcasted with subtitles when shown in English speaking countries?

 

[karym6]

I am not actually saying that british graduates are any better than the rest of the worlds, that was a silly comment to make. I was merely pointing out that many british students work incredibly hard to get their qualifications, without a doubt all students do from all over the world. But to discount them all in one fell swoop, thats just not fair.

I knew you would instantly discount anything I cared to contribute to this thread, thats ok - its a rant about you not being able to find the right person for the job you have on offer so whatever I had to say you wouldnt agree with it.

You dont need to run your own company in order to be able to recruit people, in fact for all of the companies I have ever worked for I have only met the supreme leader once. I was interviewed and hired by HR employees.

As to actually finding the right person - did you ever consider using a recruitment consultancy? Its the fastest and easiest way of find the person you need, if it is that important you wont need to worry about the fees, as long as you are able to get someone in.

 

[Munkey]

One of my biggest strenghts is finding the right man for the job and since we are a small company it is in my best interest to to do as much as possible myself, especially hiring as it is so vital to our survival.

I knew you would instantly discount anything I cared to contribute to this thread, thats ok - its a rant about you not being able to find the right person for the job you have on offer so whatever I had to say you wouldnt agree with it.

Sometimes your signal to noise ratio is a little low and I have merely pointed that out on a few occasions.

Obviously you and I disagree on the level of spoken English in this country, I guess time will tell but some of us are starting to feel the effects already.

 

[karym6]

I guess my vitriol got the better of me there unfortunately.

However, I think I am correct in assuming that regardless anything I say, this is still your rant. So anything I add would largely be pointless.

Unless of course I agree with you on the point.

As for the level of English in the country right now, I think that is largley subjective. I am not going to say that the langauge capabilities of some of out graduates is poor, because I know my english isnt perfect all the time (lol!).

 

[hawkish]

Well the english language is going to change over time, especially as the UK is now home to many whom do not speak english as a first language. The children of today all learn in the same classroom and the language changes over time. The thing is this slang and abbreviations are fast becomming part of the english language and american english and canadian english etc can never be more correct because we are english and this is how we speak and spell.

Quiet you! your just trying to justify spelling it's as ITZ in your username lol

 

[tlogic]

Hmm they cant even concentrate for longer than 3 mins let alone maintain eye contact.

The funniest line I heard on a few occasions was

'you know dem ones'

to which I would reply shaking my head

'I have no idea what you're talking about, please explain'

What I really wanted to say was

'I fooking know but explain it to me!'

you know dem ones lol.... man use to use that line bares back in da day lol... I know where your coming from Munkey, My parents has spent a lot of money sending my little sister to private school however even though she is smart she talks like she from jamaica, one of the recent lines I keep on hearing from her is ' am I bothered' or wagwan (hello) , when ever I try explain something to her all I get is 'am I bothered', I try to explain to her that 1) your not black and 2) if you keep talking like that later on in life you will carry on talking like that thinking thats its normal english and you won't get far. It's ghetto english these kids speak now days thinking its cool I ain't going to lie I speak ghetto english to friends because thats how they all speak where I live but when I am at work I speak professional english none of that ghetto crap I leave that at home. I Think kids need to read books on a regular basis to help them stop talking like that.

 

[tlogic]

Below is a list of slang kids of today uses on a daily basis, should they be included in the oxford dictionairy?

WHIP - a mode/form of transport

SICK - a positive expresion which could highlight a desirable event

BRE/BRUV - a brother of the race you belong to

MAN DEM - the male homosapian

ON ROAD - varied translations e.g. sickest bre on road. meaning sickest guy around

LOCK DOWN - an event/person/thing which is considered to be under control/in good hands

BUTTERS - ugly

BUFF - good looking

TONK - Muscular/ fat people

OHHH SHITT - expression showing concurence/happyness/sadness or any other expression desired by the user.

HIT THAT - To do something

BRAPPPP - an expression showing great excitment/ mimiking the actions of the gun community

BARE - alot

THE GAME - everyday life/sport/womenising/anything e.g. your a serious guy in the game....but what is the game....bruv i am the game

BANGING - sick/good or a descpriction an attractive girl

5-0 - the police

YOU KNOW THAT - when an observation has been made and agreed upon.

GIRL DEM - a desired women

BABYLONS/RACK - two features of the female upper body located in the chest region. in context.....check dem babs

TO FEEL IT - to want to do something/ to desire someone....in context..shit, u feel that girl dem.

GAS/RAPS - extremely fast e.g dave is fucking raps, he's a gas man.

YOU BEST RECOGNISE - you better understand what i am saying.

SERIOUS CAT - man on his chirps game; a great white in the sharking game.

CHIRPS - to chat up or flirt with a desired individual.

POTENT/AGG - a descriptive word showing a strong positive feeling/fact. in context........that is absolutely potent/agg.

GASH - a female genital area

SHANK - to knife someone

BANG HIM OUT - to knock someone out

EASY - a common greeting in everyday life in london. in context.....easyyyyy now

WOOD - the male genital sex organ

SPARK - to punch some one

TAP THAT - To have sexual relations with the opposite sex.

BRUCK UP - objects being destroyed. in context.....that shit got bruck up

SKET - undesirable member of the female gender/often diseased and a carrier of viruses

CHI CHI MAN - a homosexual

CLOCKED - to have observed and/or taken note of something

PIECE - male genitalia

SKEEN/SEEN - when an observation has been understood.

LATER - a remark made after seeing something extraordinary

DOUG or DOUGGY - to imply that something is shit or a person is a looser eg, 'that breh was so doug'

CREASE - to find something amusing/to laugh

MERKED - when someone or something is destroyed. In context.......Shit that bre got merked..OR, in sexual context...That girl got merked.

MILITANT - meaning stern, difficult or hard

BATTY - word of a descriptive nature, often used in relation to someone with homosexual tendencies. In context....batty bre...OR, can be used to describe a females' rear end.

COTCH - to relax

YARD - a place of residence

BLUD - a gangster london term for mate

RINSED - an over use of a particular activity/to be mimicked to an extreme level

HOODRAT - a commonly used phrase for a male/female who roam the streets often sporting reebock workouts, hoodies and burberry caps.

BOYD - when someone has been verabally or physically defeated, either through an insult or violent behaviour.

BIG - an emphatic statement of positive approval

ARMS - to possess the power overide any desired individual

WASTEMAN - an all around loser,a sad character, a bad egg, a failure, a burden on society

TOOLED UP - carrying weapons capable of destruction

WASTEGASH - female version of wasteman

CHAPPING - Cold.Often preceeded by "bare"or "pierre"

SHOOK - scared or nervous. e.g "Man got shook" or "Girl got shook"

SECKLE-wait a second

BAIT - when something is obvious

SAFE - either a greeting (e.g. safe blud) or meaning something or someone's positive/ good (e.g. he's bare safe)

LONG - To be complex, time consuming or arduous in nature

MERKALISATION - the process of being destroyed