Two Scumbags nicked my Car

[ketmp]

Another simple remedy the makers could implement would be a simple motion detector in the fob. No movement = no signal. Seemples.

Don't quote me on it but I'm sure that keyless cars don't require keyfob to be present to keep engine running. They're needed (or relay is needed) to start car but that's about it. At least on my car that's true.

The makers should fix that and after x time of no keyfob detected and car still running, they cut out. Obviously a warning would have to be shown on display to allow those that are driving to safely pull over. Similar option could be they cut out with no keyfob present and only when engine running but no movement detected (ie not driving).

There is obviously a downside to this though.

 

[Spectre]

Don't quote me on it but I'm sure that keyless cars don't require keyfob to be present to keep engine running. They're needed (or relay is needed) to start car but that's about it. At least on my car that's true.

The makers should fix that and after x time of no keyfob detected and car still running, they cut out. Obviously a warning would have to be shown on display to allow those that are driving to safely pull over. Similar option could be they cut out with no keyfob present and only when engine running but no movement detected (ie not driving).

There is obviously a downside to this though.

That's not a bad idea at all. I'm wondering if the keyfob only has one response though (if that's how the relay attack works). If it is one response and it has been captured and can be replayed (like my Wilko doorbell ) then there is no further need for the keyfob.

It got me thinking about how a car remains running essentially without a key.

It's probably not too important to restart the car once started as it will be in a container.

@ketmp idea is an interesting one though. Like:

Car: You still there?
Fob: Still here.
Car: You still there?
Fob: Still here.
Car: You still there?
Fob: .......................................

Car: You still there?
Fob: .......................................


Car: Stopping.

 

[ketmp]

That's not a bad idea at all. I'm wondering if the keyfob only has one response though (if that's how the relay attack works). If it is one response and it has been captured and can be replayed (like my Wilko doorbell ) then there is no further need for the keyfob....

No, my car alerts when keyfob not present but doesn't appear to do anything other than alert so it must continously check for keyfob.

 

[Spectre]

No, my car alerts when keyfob not present but doesn't appear to do anything other than alert so it must continously check for keyfob.

@ketmp thing is what does their conversation look like?

I'm guessing it differs from car to car but imagine it was the same response every time when the car asks for the fob.

It would be something like:

Car: Fob, give me a code.
Fob: 0x012345678
Car: Fob, give me a code.
Fob: 0x012345678
Car: Fob, give me a code.
Fob: 0x012345678

Now, that sort of attack would work as long as 0x12345678 can be replayed to the ECU every time it requests one.

The introduction of a rolling code could do something like:

Car: Fob, give me a code.
Fob: 0x012345678
Car: Fob, give me the next code.
Fob: 0x012345678
Car: NOT VALID!

This brings me back to what sort of capability the fob/transponder has.

 

[gez]

Mine beeps if I move out of range, pretty sure it will stop after a short distance, it's a Nissan pulsar

 

[silverdale]

Does wrapping my key fob in tin foil stop car thieves?

 

[gez]

I tried that and couldn't unlock car from 30 ft away. Not tried to start car yet

 

[cactikid]

Now GEZ please try on your car not on somebody elses

 

[chookey]

A fob and a roll of Baco Foil instead of carrying a key. What WILL they think of next?

Sorry for your loss tlogic

 

[ketmp]

Mine beeps if I move out of range, pretty sure it will stop after a short distance, it's a Nissan pulsar

Stop beeping or stop car? Test it as my Focus beeps for short period then stops beeping but does still display message that key not detected but i've left it for about 5mins and engine kept running.

 

[turner brown]

search hackrf on youtube and see how cheap and easy this is

 

[Spectre]

search hackrf on youtube and see how cheap and easy this is

Do you have a specific link?

I have a HackRF One but I'm sure with rolling codes it isn't as easy as a replay attack. I've cloned a doorbell that I bought .

Some attacks rely on blocking reception of the real fob whilst sniffing what they sent and then replaying that at a later time. I think these attacks that you see in the media at the moment are something to do with a development kit being used as a repeater between a transponder and car in realtime rather than a replay attack.

 

[turner brown]

no just seen a few on there about it and don't own a hackrf
but this is the same type of attack

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[mapman]

that was to fast,keyless is no use.

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