programming language

[pritesh]

Hi i want to learn how to start programming but im confused as to what language to start with. im a total beginner and have one bit of experience so obviously dont want something too hard to start with. i also dont want to learn something just to find out that its of no real use. my neighbour is a software engineer and told me that java is the best one to learn but have heard mixed things as to whether it is good for a beginner. would something like python be better? but like i said i dont want to learn something if i cant do anything with it.

thanks

 

[yomeh]

to be honest mate i always think visual basic is a good starting point for any programmer its useful and its quite easy to learn there are many tutorials online i started programming with vb and i find you can use it for many different things.

since learning vb i have went on to learn c++ because i found that knowing vb helps you to understand other programming lanuages as well.

Just to say programming is not easy and its not hard you will get stuck sometimes but i found that asking for help and not the answer always the best way to learn

 

[pritesh]

hi thanks for the advice, obviously i no its not going to be easy but nothing is and i dont mind putting the time in. is there any other advice you have, such as recommend readings for example.

so defiantly vb then? like i said before complete beginner

 

[yomeh]

i used a book years ago to learn vb and i found it extremely useful but before that i just used tutorials on the net i'm now at home at the moment so i cant remember the name of the book i'll find out when i get home mate if i still have it you can have it

i'd say go for vb simply because i didnt find it extremly difficult other people might prefer other languages to start off with but i recommend vb

sorry also forgot to mention you will need to download Microsoft Visual Basic 6 should be able to find it somewhere if not let me know i can copy mine and send it out to you

tut

 

[pritesh]

allrite thanks mate, downloaded a few eboks and have found a few sites that have tutorials on them but if you can find the name of the book i would appreciate it.

downloaded and installed visual basic 2005, just going to do some reading and have a go with it.

thanks again.

 

[halt]

VB is very bloated to learn at first. I suggest Python as a training language. It is Higher level code (more human readable). It is also interpreted (Python Interpretor runs scripts that you write, rather than having to compile source code). Python is available on a lot of platforms, quick and useful; it's worth learning.

Visual Basic is good for some things though, for people who like to see things quickly happening. But other than that it is a general mistake

halt

 

[mask]

Python,
http://www.python.org

and forget vb, it's just crap.

 

[halt]

Python,
http://www.python.org

and forget vb, it's just crap.

Well, I was trying to say that in a more diplomatic way

 

[karym6]

python is a nice language to know and I agree with the other posters here on vb, there is no need to learn this unless you really need to know it...

other alternatives to python are perl and ruby. Another good language to have an inderstanding in is Java, understanding this language will give you a good footing with other languages you may wish to learn. Its also quite good for the beginner

 

[TheWakeUpCall]

PHP was my first scripting language to learn. It is both very basic, but can be very advance. It will give you a good foot in software programming in the future if you learn it.

 

[karym6]

hmm, PHP is more of a web based language than python and java. I took it from the languages mentioned in the first post that he/she wished to learn programming and not dynamic website creation.

However, in saying that, PHP can actually be used on the command line. Although I have not seen anyone make use of that feature.

Regardless, many programming and scripting languages work from the same basic logic - if you can master the logic then you will be quite a way down the road to learning to program. All that remains after that is to choose the one you like the best and learn the caveats that go with it. Out of the ones you first mention, Python and Java are good for beginners and will teach you many valuable lessons

 

[MistaMerlin]

Learn C# it's awesome and really easy to get the hang of and with .NET you can use it alongside all manner of things.

I have a PDF copy of C# for dummies, it's a really wicked book. Send me a PM if you want it

 

[Temp]

Learn a language that you are going to use and find useful.

There is no point trying to learn something and never use it.

Java: Popular language, loads of examples, tutorials online and source code. Will teach you what to do and what not to do in OOP. Level: Medium to Hard.

VB: Quickly becoming a classic in its own right, easy to use, lots of examples online, big companies still need VB code maintaining. Its not OOP so you will learn loads of BAD habbits. Level Easy to Medium.

C#: A copy of Java, but the .NET structure makes it a language that will take off. It slow as hell, (just like java) when it comes to GUI, but worth learning. Level Medium to Hard.

PHP/Perl: Extremely simular languages, PHP 4 is procedural, PHP 5 is getting to OOP. Level: Easy to Medium.

OpenROAD: Like VB and its going to make a come back when it goes open source. Level: Easy to Medium.

Pascal/Delphi: Very strict language which will teach you how to code correctly. Not as well used as some of the other mainstream languages. Level: Easy to Hard.

Python: I had a look at stackless python, but never needed to code in it.

ASM/C/C++: Don't bother, unless you really need to. Seriously.

 

[MistaMerlin]

OOP = Object Oriented Programming

Programming that uses "objects" and their interactions to design applications and computer programs.

(just figured the original poster might not know what OOP is)

 

[karym6]

ASM/C/C++: Don't bother, unless you really need to. Seriously.

thats an interesing comment to make, it is also interesting you categorise assembler with c/c++

c and c++ have to one of the corner stones of software programming - they are very popular and powerful languages that are used today in many applications. C++ has had such an impact on programming that you see its heavy influence in other languages such as java, it is also one of the key languages you will be taught about (ussually in concjunction with java) at university.

Its not everyones cup of tea, but it is a very popular and important language.

Assembler on the other hand, is machine code for wont of a better word. When programming in assembler, you talk directly with the cpu. This increases the speed of whatever you are trying to write and decreases the size of the program. However, it isnt the best thing to get started with and you will need a lot of reference books in order to figure out the commands needed. The only relationship I can see between assembler and c/c++ is that you can actually use blocks of assembler in the code.

The comment on pascal was quite good - it is a common language used to introduce someone into programming and was the first one I was ever taught in. However, these days it wont be so good. Pascal is a linear language, which means it executes line by line and sections of code need to be in the correct order to run. It is related to Delphi after a fashion and there are still Delphi developers out there, but this is in the decline.

If you have no direct need to learn a particular language, and are just doing it out of interest then one good way to find a starting point would be to check the prospectus of universities. They often describe what languages they will show to first years, find this out and take it from there

 

[mask]

forget assembler, it's machine-specific.
if you try to learn it you will need to understand more dialogs than C3PO

and avoid .NET, C#, VB, delphi and any other microsoft only crap.
if you learn c, c++, python, or java your skills can be used on windows,linux,mac, cellfones, even some handheld games.

stick with open languages that arent tied to windows and you cant go wrong.

 

[karym6]

forget assembler, it's machine-specific.
if you try to learn it you will need to understand more dialogs than C3PO

and avoid .NET, C#, VB, delphi and any other microsoft crap.
if you learn c, c++, python, or java your skills can be used on windows,linux,mac, cellfones, even some handheld games.

stick with open languages that arent tied to windows and you cant go wrong.

a few points to make.

assembler isnt machine specific, its chip specific. So assembler in x86 will work on pretty much all the current Intel (apart from Itanium) and AMD chips not to mention a good prtion of the cryix embedded chips.

.Net is an application framework into which you can use a huge amount of programming languages including C/C++, Java, VB, C# etc. If you do choose to work towards being a .net developer then the internet is your playground and you wont be tied to any type of OS at all...

Delphi has nothing to dow ith Microsoft, its owned and maintained by a company called Borland who also pioneered C/C++ development evnironments.

When it comes to gaming, most mobile games are written in either java or symbian. Most video games for consoles are written in C++.

 

[Temp]

thats an interesing comment to make, it is also interesting you categorise assembler with c/c++

They are only categorised in the "Don't bother" category.

c and c++ have to one of the corner stones of software programming - they are very popular and powerful languages that are used today in many applications. C++ has had such an impact on programming that you see its heavy influence in other languages such as java, it is also one of the key languages you will be taught about (ussually in concjunction with java) at university.

Yes I was taught C/C++ and Motorola 68k ASM at University. I still write software in C/C++, but we are talking about specific stuff here. No one really wants to write GUI based programs in C/C++ when they have other options like VB/C#/Java.

Its not everyones cup of tea, but it is a very popular and important language.

I never said it wasn't important, I said don't learn it if you really don't need to.

Assembler on the other hand, is machine code for wont of a better word. When programming in assembler, you talk directly with the cpu. This increases the speed of whatever you are trying to write and decreases the size of the program. However, it isnt the best thing to get started with and you will need a lot of reference books in order to figure out the commands needed. The only relationship I can see between assembler and c/c++ is that you can actually use blocks of assembler in the code.

Assembler is not machine code; Assembler is the lowest form of language which is "Assembled" into machine code. (Machine code is binary, which the cpu can understand)

I advised against C/C++ because it requires more programmer skill, experience, effort, and attention to detail than is required for some other programming languages.
Don't talk to me about memory leaks.

Relationship? What language was used to create C?

The comment on pascal was quite good - it is a common language used to introduce someone into programming and was the first one I was ever taught in. However, these days it wont be so good. Pascal is a linear language, which means it executes line by line and sections of code need to be in the correct order to run. It is related to Delphi after a fashion and there are still Delphi developers out there, but this is in the decline.

Pascal is not a linear language, structured imperative computer programming language.
It has procedures and functions like any other language. I am sure the Delphi developers out there will hang you for that comment.

If you have no direct need to learn a particular language, and are just doing it out of interest then one good way to find a starting point would be to check the prospectus of universities. They often describe what languages they will show to first years, find this out and take it from there

There are lots of college courses where you can learn Java or .NET.

 

[mask]

a few points to make.

assembler isnt machine specific, its chip specific. So assembler in x86 will work on pretty much all the current Intel (apart from Itanium) and AMD chips not to mention a good prtion of the cryix embedded chips.

wrong, because it's not just the cpu but the platform.
when you use assembly you need to know the memory-map and the pheripheral registers.
i know, i'm an assembly expert on microchip & 6502 and to a lesser extent z80 architecture.

.Net is an application framework into which you can use a huge amount of programming languages including C/C++, Java, VB, C# etc. If you do choose to work towards being a .net developer then the internet is your playground and you wont be tied to any type of OS at all...

.NET library's only work in windows.
the MONO project is almost dead too.

Delphi has nothing to dow ith Microsoft, its owned and maintained by a company called Borland who also pioneered C/C++ development evnironments.

When it comes to gaming, most mobile games are written in either java or symbian. Most video games for consoles are written in C++.

delphi only compiles on windows, it's dll's only run on windows.
the Linux version "kylix" is discontinued and it never ran on mac.

 

[Temp]

the MONO project is almost dead too.

That would be a shame...
Why do you think its dead when they have just released 1.2.5 five days ago.