Motorbike Protest - 25/9 - M25 Other way round ...

[Bennage]

Hello all!
Thought I'd add a little bit to the discussion...

Ellie & Jaffa: you say why should a bike pay when cars have to. My answer is:

Why does a car have to pay? If you say traffic managment, then why are we (I'm a car driver as well) charged per vehicle rather than per space?
In the recent court case the protest campaign brought against Westminster, they asked WCC to justify charging bikes to park (and in essence why anyone should have to be charged). Their response (and subsequently how they got off) was "we don't have to justify it".

According to these figures the council is now making a £430,500 LOSS on the motorcycle charging scheme. Yet the private company that operates the pay-by-phone system, 'Verrus', is making a healthy profit. If you really want a laugh, have a look at the connections between WCC councilors and this company.

Everything is dearer than 20 years ago it's called inflation.

If car parking charges in Westminster had gone up with inflation, it would now cost 45p per hour to park. Yet it actually now costs £5 every hour. That's a 10,000% increase.

If you are going to win anything, it will be better areas to park, marked out better and even a reduced fee as you are using very little space but I cannot see fees being abolished for bikers.

It was promised at the introduction of the charge that this would happen. Two and a half years later, and there is nothing. In fact, there is now a reduction in the number of spaces available to bikes and scooters.

According to info gained by FoI requests (as a result of being blanked by WCC officers & councilors), only 4% of bike bays now have ground anchors. They promised to roll them out across the entire borough. Since the introduction, not one single anchor has been installed.

It is precisely this sort of blatant lie that has resulted in a lot of people rising up and saying "we're not going to take this anymore."

Indeed, a lot of people feel the same as you - "why shouldn't they pay when we have to?" But I ask again,

Why do you pay?

 

[Joe1989]

If a car has to pay then why not a bike ?.



How can I not notice when it's in a thread I was interested in ?. I do swear myself but not here as any age group can read the posts.

If 12 year olds are on here then they need to get a grip


Anyways thats no the point


But you have just prooved mine - I can see no valid reason for making a bike pay - apart from " well we need to pay for a car so why shouldnt they" Which is bull imo.

But i can see many valid reasons for not making a bike pay - For example, the parking conditions are hurrendus, the is no proper spaces or orgization, they take up allmost no room, and im sure there was a few more here.

I would still really like to here a valid reason from you ellie of why a bike should pay - As i still havent got one yet.

 

[mcgirt]

I'm sure there's a similar thread going on else where on the forum, but anyway....

Jaffa - I think it’s a bit unfair to say just because 'we' have to do something everybody should. Is that your view on everything or just this? Perhaps if car owners questioned where money is going and why we’re paying prices may stop rising (I doubt it thought). I say that as car driver who doesn’t question the why or where.

With regard to bikes paying, does each bike pay the same as a car? I would have thought it to be more reasonable to charge them a percentage of the space they are allocated. For example, if 1 car space is divided into 4 bike spaces the bikes get charged a 1/4 of a car space. I say that as a biker who does like not having to pay but can’t be arsed arguing on a forum where the out come will make no difference.

I do wonder about the money these parking spaces make and how it's used. I would have thought its best used for maintaining the roads but going by my city centre it doesn't look to be the case.

Anyway, that’s me had my say. Good luck to the guys that attend, it’s nice to see people passionate about something. I don’t think it will stop the charging but it may cause some delays to it and perhaps raise some questions on parking/congestion charges.

Jaffa I know I only mentioned you above, hope it doesn’t come across like I’m having a go.

 

[ellie1998]

<snip>

But you have just prooved mine - I can see no valid reason for making a bike pay - apart from " well we need to pay for a car so why shouldnt they" Which is bull imo.

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, I have stated my opinion and I am entitled to it if you approve of it or not.

But i can see many valid reasons for not making a bike pay - For example, the parking conditions are hurrendus, the is no proper spaces or orgization, they take up allmost no room, and im sure there was a few more here.

I would still really like to here a valid reason from you ellie of why a bike should pay - As i still havent got one yet.

I have stated a valid reason the fact you don't agree with it is not here or there.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Why do you think that I have to agree with you ?

I am not interested in lack of space, all I can see from the photo posted was inconsiderate parking.

This demonstration will just ruin peoples weekends and will not make a bit of difference except to alienate more car drivers against selfish motorbike users, unfortunatly even the good ones will get a bad name .

 

[Joe1989]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, I have stated my opinion and I am entitled to it if you approve of it or not.



I have stated a valid reason the fact you don't agree with it is not here or there.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Why do you think that I have to agree with you ?

I am not interested in lack of space, all I can see from the photo posted was inconsiderate parking.

This demonstration will just ruin peoples weekends and will not make a bit of difference except to alienate more car drivers against selfish motorbike users, unfortunatly even the good ones will get a bad name .

Its not a vaild reason at all, and year your entiled to your oppinion fair doos - But your opioion is based on no good reason and thats what im trying to point out.

As for messing up people weekend i agree, it will but what else are they ment to do ? Its not as if the goverment is going to do anything about it if they dont do that is it ?

 

[Rs2k_Rider]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it, I have stated my opinion and I am entitled to it if you approve of it or not.



I have stated a valid reason the fact you don't agree with it is not here or there.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. Why do you think that I have to agree with you ?

I am not interested in lack of space, all I can see from the photo posted was inconsiderate parking.

This demonstration will just ruin peoples weekends and will not make a bit of difference except to alienate more car drivers against selfish motorbike users, unfortunatly even the good ones will get a bad name .

Ellie, Your missing the point of the photo.. ! the bikes were NOT parked in the positions they ended up in. This is the point, damage is being caused to machines that can cost £4-10k because of lack of space.... space that was promised...

Peoples weekends will not be ruined, for one there is not a huge amount of people held up as on the last demo we kept a pace of 50mph min... and from the last stop at clacket lane we were on the speed limit.... The M25 ruins peoples weekends on its own ! lol regardless of if we are going to be on it or not.

 

[Bennage]

The M25 this week was voted the most boring road in Europe. Methinks we might 'spice it up a bit'.

Every car I rode past on the last one gave us a big thumbs up. Happy smiling faces all round!

Videos and reports from the last demo confirm that the traffic behind us was no worse than any other weekend.

Indeed, there is nothing else we can do. I had a chat with a very angry van driver held up in our Trafalgar Square pdemos a few weeks ago. By the end, he was completely on our side...

Him: "Why the f*£! are you holding me up like this?!?"
Me: "Because we are protesting against Westminster blah blah..."
Him: "Can't you just write a f***ing letter?"
Me: "We've done that. All 8,000 letters were ignored."
Him: "Well can't you go and sit outside their offices and protest that way?"
Me: "We did that after the letters were ignored."
Him: "Well isn't there some way you can protest withoutholding up all of London??"
Me: "We did that too. For about two years, we held regular demonstrations riding through London, showig our presence, but not holding anyone up. We are still being ignored."
Him: "Hmmm. Well in that case, f*** it. I'm with you. I didn't realise. I'll hang around."

After nearly knocking a bike over with annoyance, he turned out to be a rather nicebloke.


You are of course completely entitled to your opinion. We just want to make sure that your opinion isn't based on false information.

 

[witchy]

Bikers are all gay.

 

[chrispeters]

Bikers are all gay.

no...youre gay . lol

i wud deffo not pay for ANY parkin on my bike ..push irons will be next ffs !!
if bikers did have to pay for parkin ,,well i wud find jaffas or ellies car , and park it on the roof ! lol

jokin aside ...i only bike for pleasure , i dont go anywhere that requires paid parking so i aint that bothered !
But i can see the problem with peeps commuting in the center..its bollox really .

 

[jaffa]

@mcgirt...dont be daft m8, I wouldnt think you are having a go just because you are trying to get your point over, its a different opinion than mind but thats life.

I am still waiting on a valid reason why bikers should not pay and cars pay, saying that we should protest because we have to pay is nonsense.

What exactly is the aim of this protest...serious question ???

Is it a protest because you dont think you should pay (if so I hope it fails)

Is it a protest because you want better conditions to park you bike safely and don't mind paying a reasonable price to have you bike parked safely (in which case I would wish you all the best).

Why do I pay...cos if I dont, I will get a fine or towed away. Just saying I shouldn't pay because I think it is wrong will not pay my fine and a few thousand protesting will not affect anything.

For those that think I am lying down and taking what they throw at me...well to those that say that then I say...go park your motorbike in Westminster and DON'T pay...go on I dare you, you may be good at saying we car users shouldnt take it...so go along and park....btw, lets know how much a fine you get.

@Chris, you can park on my car roof if you pay half the fee...:banana:

 

[ellie1998]

<snip>
I am still waiting on a valid reason why bikers should not pay and cars pay, saying that we should protest because we have to pay is nonsense.

<snip>

You won't get a valid reason from joe1998 he likes to post abusive bad rep that I hadn't noticed for ages so it's a personnal vendetta against me rather than a genuine belief that motorists should pay while motor bikes get away free without a charge.

Suppose the bad rep and abuse will start again now ?

 

[jaffa]

You won't get a valid reason from joe1998 he likes to post abusive bad rep that I hadn't noticed for ages so it's a personnal vendetta against me rather than a genuine belief that motorists should pay while motor bikes get away free without a charge.

Suppose the bad rep and abuse will start again now ?

You have been around long enough for me to know that the bad rep doesn't even bother you, it's immature and means they lost the argument.

Rep means nothing at all in forums to me, if I get bad rep then so what, I know I won then, if people cannot debate without adding bad rep then they need to go to other forums were people will bite and argue back with them.

Civilised debates are for adults, bad rep is for juveniles.

 

[Joe1989]

You won't get a valid reason from joe1998 he likes to post abusive bad rep that I hadn't noticed for ages so it's a personnal vendetta against me rather than a genuine belief that motorists should pay while motor bikes get away free without a charge.

Suppose the bad rep and abuse will start again now ?

The feck you talking about ? Any rep i'v given you is deserved. And im pritty sure i'v no been abusive?

Valid reasons for not making a bike pay are " Parking conditions are a shambles, biker are small and take up no room in comparson to a car, you can park a bike out of the road of everything you cant with a car and MOST IMPORTANLY the council and goverment have NO One bike only spaces and they dont have any programm or ideas to IMPROVE bike parking."

I think thats about 6 vaild reasons? Im sure there are more though.

Why should bikes pay ? Well the only reaons is jelousey " well cars have to pay so why dont bikes" < Which isnt a reason its jelousey.

I think this is about 0 vaild reasons? I dont think there is any more either.

and FYI im not a biker I only drive a car.

Jaffa : Most of the time when i leave bad rep it is because the post is useless, wrong or shows the users attature for what it is. You post of borderline insulting - The Rep system is there to be used in my eyes when such posts dont even warrent a reply - Like yours.

 

[witchy]

The feck you talking about ? Any rep i'v given you is deserved. And im pritty sure i'v no been abusive?

Valid reasons for not making a bike pay are " Parking conditions are a shambles, biker are small and take up no room in comparson to a car, you can park a bike out of the road of everything you cant with a car and MOST IMPORTANLY the council and goverment have NO One bike only spaces and they dont have any programm or ideas to IMPROVE bike parking."

I think thats about 6 vaild reasons? Im sure there are more though.

Why should bikes pay ? Well the only reaons is jelousey " well cars have to pay so why dont bikes" < Which isnt a reason its jelousey.

I think this is about 0 vaild reasons? I dont think there is any more either.

and FYI im not a biker I only drive a car.

Jaffa : Most of the time when i leave bad rep it is because the post is useless, wrong or shows the users attature for what it is. You post of borderline insulting - The Rep system is there to be used in my eyes when such posts dont even warrent a reply - Like yours.

Hmm.

Very agressive.

Joe1989, I'd put a wager that was the year you were born.

This doesn't warrent a reply IMO.

 

[jaffa]

The feck you talking about ? Any rep i'v given you is deserved. And im pritty sure i'v no been abusive?

Valid reasons for not making a bike pay are " Parking conditions are a shambles, biker are small and take up no room in comparson to a car, you can park a bike out of the road of everything you cant with a car and MOST IMPORTANLY the council and goverment have NO One bike only spaces and they dont have any programm or ideas to IMPROVE bike parking."

I think thats about 6 vaild reasons? Im sure there are more though.

Why should bikes pay ? Well the only reaons is jelousey " well cars have to pay so why dont bikes" < Which isnt a reason its jelousey.

I think this is about 0 vaild reasons? I dont think there is any more either.

and FYI im not a biker I only drive a car.

Jaffa : Most of the time when i leave bad rep it is because the post is useless, wrong or shows the users attature for what it is. You post of borderline insulting - The Rep system is there to be used in my eyes when such posts dont even warrent a reply - Like yours.

Oh so you went back to edit your post, did the wee angry man inside your head get to you and you had to vent your anger...lol.

Like I said, bad rep is for juveniles so thx for being a juvenile and bad repping me, it really means.....fek all to me, I could destroy what little rep you had in one click but as I said, I am not a child and wont play silly childish games. You have just proved to me you cant have a grown up debate.

Back on topic...they are not valid reasons for parking free, if one hundred bikes parked then I am sure they would take up quite a lot of space and there would be no income from them, whereas if those spaces were used for cars instead of bikes then there would be income, you can't seriously think they are going to give up spaces which make them income from cars and give them to bikers for free. Get your head out of the sand, its all about making money, it doesnt matter if it is a bike space or a car space, they want paid for it and will get paid for it.

Seems there are plenty of places to park bikes or is the motorcycle action group telling porkies.

MAG Foundation: A-Z Secure Parking - London

Hmm.

Very agressive.

Joe1989, I'd put a wager that was the year you were born.

This doesn't warrent a reply IMO.

I think you would win your wager, has a bit of life to live before he realises how the world works.

 

[Joe1989]

Oh so you went back to edit your post, did the wee angry man inside your head get to you and you had to vent your anger...lol.

Like I said, bad rep is for juveniles so thx for being a juvenile and bad repping me, it really means.....fek all to me, I could destroy what little rep you had in one click but as I said, I am not a child and wont play silly childish games. You have just proved to me you cant have a grown up debate.

Back on topic...they are not valid reasons for parking free, if one hundred bikes parked then I am sure they would take up quite a lot of space and there would be no income from them, whereas if those spaces were used for cars instead of bikes then there would be income, you can't seriously think they are going to give up spaces which make them income from cars and give them to bikers for free. Get your head out of the sand, its all about making money, it doesnt matter if it is a bike space or a car space, they want paid for it and will get paid for it.

Seems there are plenty of places to park bikes or is the motorcycle action group telling porkies.

MAG Foundation: A-Z Secure Parking - London



I think you would win your wager, has a bit of life to live before he realises how the world works.

Trust me - I'v been though enough shit recently to relise how the world works - And arguing about my immaturity and juvienly isnt on the top of my list - Hence the bad rep, It lets you know im not happy about your post and you can either take that as a idea to help improve your attatue - I.E. Not to call peopel juvinile and immature - or you can take it in any way you like - I dont really care either way and i wont reply anymore in this thread about the rep - Fell free to PM me and i'll give you my phonenumber and we can discuss this futher if you like.

witchy - You would win that bet hands down - Why else would i have they number in my name - I can assure you however i may only be "21" but i know i have my head screwed on and im not immature, or juvinile (Or agressive for that matter - im just getting a bit pissed off everones having a go at me because they cant think of any good reasons to charge bikes???

However i can assuse you im not a twat, nor being agressive or a "keyboard" warror, nor am i immature - Yes i leave bad rep - its there to be used - Its saves me replying and getting into an argument over the forums such as these.

I make no bones about it i hate you ellie since you spouted the rubbish about armed fouces and no compistion, after all they protect our way of like (So i can be immature if i like) and when they get blowen to bits you dont think they should be appricated and get any como (WHAT?!)) - And i belive thats when i left bad rep - and will continue to do so when you make rubbish posts, equally as i give good rep to good posts (This that immature too?)

What else am i ment to say jaffa - You ovbsoully have that opinion about the rep system and it wont change will it? Anyways back to the motercycle parking.

Pay and displays have one space pay car, you pay to park you car in that space securely and safely.

Unless the goverment are going to apply the same tehnique to bikes then i dont see why they should pay ? Equal sizes space, Ancor points - No one should pay to leave there bike and come back to it in a state like the picture posted previouslly - So i ask you this, what good reasons is there to make bikes pay in conditions such as that?!

On the note of not protesting, why shouldnt they, it seams to get the coverment and counciles to listen these days your required to make a stand, a fuss in order for them to improve the conditions.

Oh and apprenly if im immautre and junvinie, whichy also falls into that catorgory. Cheers for the bad feekback :thurmbright:, lol whichy much be a 40 year old immature person then, And your right, your post dosnt warrent a reply but i gave it a small one anyway

and i edited my post because the first one was crap - Its just written diffrent the point is still there.

 

[witchy]

I make no bones about it i hate you ellie since you spouted the rubbish about armed fouces and no compistion

On one hand you are telling us that you are not immature, then the next thing you post the above?!

You hate ellie because he has a different opinion than you?

I don't know what ellie said, but he's fully entitled to say anything he likes. That's what makes the world go around Joe.

BTW, I followed YOUR rules and applied them, that's where the Rep came from.

 

[Joe1989]

On one hand you are telling us that you are not immature, then the next thing you post the above?!

You hate ellie because he has a different opinion than you?

I don't know what ellie said, but he's fully entitled to say anything he likes. That's what makes the world go around Joe.

Your right - He is entilited to his own opinion but i dislike (Mabey hate was the wrong work) people because of there attatude, opinions, views ect ect - it works the other way about as well.

Thats how the world works witchy - You like people you dislike others according to "who they are". Its how you go about dislikeing and likeing these people. I try to stay clear of them, ignore them.

I can assure you i dont have any vendettas agients anyone on here.

Ellie i may dislike you however i would nerver wish any harm agienst you, or anything even if you do annoy me

Anyways back on topic.

 

[jaffa]

I didint see anyone having a go at you and I never mentioned anyones name when I said civilised debates are for adults, bad rep is for juveniles, if the show fits then wear it and that applies to everyone (imho)

My opinion on the rep system is simple....it starts to many arguments and is meaningless really.

I dont need to bad rep anyone because I cant win an argument with them, they may be better debaters than me and may have points I never considered but that doesnt warrant bad repping someone to show you dont agree with them, you havent given me any other reasons to change my mind on biker parking from what I already knew, you state no anchor points and not enough room but the links I posted suggest otherwise.

You never mentioned the link I posted about motor bike parking in London. Heres another one which clearly states anchors are there.

SECURE MOTORCYCLE PARKING IN LONDON - MOTORCYCLEPARKING.COM - THE MOTORCYCLISTS GUIDE - MOTORCYCLE PARKING IN LONDON AND UK

As for the photo posted earlier, I already said if it wasn't staged then it may have been inconsiderate parking by the bikers, I was told that they fell over and landed like that, from that photo...it didnt look like it but I wasnt there to know so took what the poster stated as truth.

 

[Joe1989]

I didint see anyone having a go at you and I never mentioned anyones name when I said civilised debates are for adults, bad rep is for juveniles, if the show fits then wear it and that applies to everyone (imho)

My opinion on the rep system is simple....it starts to many arguments and is meaningless really.

I dont need to bad rep anyone because I cant win an argument with them, they may be better debaters than me and may have points I never considered but that doesnt warrant bad repping someone to show you dont agree with them, you havent given me any other reasons to change my mind on biker parking from what I already knew, you state no anchor points and not enough room but the links I posted suggest otherwise.

You never mentioned the link I posted about motor bike parking in London. Heres another one which clearly states anchors are there.

SECURE MOTORCYCLE PARKING IN LONDON - MOTORCYCLEPARKING.COM - THE MOTORCYCLISTS GUIDE - MOTORCYCLE PARKING IN LONDON AND UK

As for the photo posted earlier, I already said if it wasn't staged then it may have been inconsiderate parking by the bikers, I was told that they fell over and landed like that, from that photo...it didnt look like it but I wasnt there to know so took what the poster stated as truth.

I noticed the link you posted above, but i was under the impression that this topic was about the pay and displays now private parking places ? I just looked at the link again and noticed it is a list of pay and displays, but i cant comment on the conditions of the parking.

If there is secure parking, with each biking having its own space ect ect like the car does the no bother change them

Certin i'v nerver seen painted bays or bike points, usually there all crushed into the one ancor and its a shambles.

You mayhave no being saying any names however i felt it was clear you were refearing to me.

everyone is entiled to there own opinions its fine the problem is most of these opinions arnt based on fact, and im sorry i still dont agree that "the car pays so why shouldnt the bike" as an acceptial reson to charge a bike.

I did agree with one of the elier posts as well though, why should the car pay as well?