Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

[Evastar]

Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have "utterly failed", Chancellor Angela Merkel says.

She said the so-called "multikulti" concept - where people would "live side-by-side" happily - did not work, and immigrants needed to do more to integrate - including learning German.

The comments come amid rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany.


A recent survey suggested more than 30% of people believed the country was "overrun by foreigners".

The study - by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think-tank - also showed that roughly the same number thought that some 16 million of Germany's immigrants or people with foreign origins had come to the country for its social benefits.


Mrs Merkel told a gathering of younger members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party on Saturday that at "the beginning of the 60s our country called the foreign workers to come to Germany and now they live in our country."

She added: "We kidded ourselves a while, we said: 'They won't stay, sometime they will be gone', but this isn't reality."


Angela Merkel took pains to say immigrants are welcome.

The words "utterly failed" are very strong, but there are also nuanced messages about the usefulness of immigrants in a country that needs skilled labour.

She is pitching it very carefully, with important elections coming up in the spring.

The tone is very important.

The chancellor is basically saying that Germany needs immigrants but immigrants need to do something to get into the society.


"And of course, the approach [to build] a multicultural [society] and to live side-by-side and to enjoy each other... has failed, utterly failed."

In her speech in Potsdam, however, the chancellor made clear that immigrants were welcome in Germany.

She specifically referred to recent comments by German President Christian Wulff who said that Islam was "part of Germany", like Christianity and Judaism.

Mrs Merkel said: "We should not be a country either which gives the impression to the outside world that those who don't speak German immediately or who were not raised speaking German are not welcome here."


There has been intense debate about multiculturalism in Germany in recent months.

Correspondents say Mrs Merkel faces pressure from within her CDU and its allies to take a tougher stance and require immigrants to do more to adapt to German society.

Earlier this week, Horst Seehofer, the leader of the CDU's Bavarian sister party, the CSU, said it was "obvious that immigrants from different cultures like Turkey and Arab countries, all in all, find it harder" to integrate.


"'Multikulti' is dead," Mr Seehofer said.

Earlier this month the chancellor held talks with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in which the two leaders pledged to do more to improve the often poor integration record of Germany's estimated 2.5 million-strong Turkish community.

The debate first heated up in August when Thilo Sarrazin, a senior official at Germany's central bank, said that "no immigrant group other than Muslims is so strongly connected with claims on the welfare state and crime". Mr Sarrazin has since resigned.

Such recent strong anti-immigration feelings from mainstream politicians come amid an anger in Germany about high unemployment, even if the economy is growing faster than those of its rivals, our correspondent says.

He adds that there also seems to be a new strident tone in the country, perhaps leading to less reticence about no-go-areas of the past.

BBC News - Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

 

[Thommo]

just like here then but no one has the balls to stand up and say it.

 

[janobi]

I dont think its as straight forward as blaming immigrants for the demise of a country. Sadly developed countries have plundered smaller lesser countries for centuries, and are now feeling the backlash with immigration. Karma some might say.

However I do agree that immigrants fail to integrate into society properly, but do we as society do enough to help them integrate. I would say probably not. Also I agree that no immigrant should be allowed residence if they dont speak the language of the country. I feel that this is integeral for any person going to a new country.

 

[oneman]

Also I agree that no immigrant should be allowed residence if they dont speak the language of the country. I feel that this is integeral for any person going to a new country.

Not sure about this, my mom still does not speak good english even after almost 40 years in the country. Yet she has worked and paid taxes for 30 years and is a good 'citizen'.

I believe the visa process now includes a english test except for asyslum seekers.

 

[Evastar]

i feel people can learn a lot from other cultures, but i also think if you decide to move to another country you should make an effort to fit in with their culture and not demand your cultural and ethnic rights be recognised.

If you choose to become an economic migrant you should show at least some respect for the country you migrate to.

I'm not saying here that i expect everyone that moves to Ireland or the UK to become a christian and start eating pork etc, i just mean that people should try to integrate with the native community more and not create areas where it's nearly like you never moved anywhere at all.

 

[janobi]

Not sure about this, my mom still does not speak good english even after almost 40 years in the country. Yet she has worked and paid taxes for 30 years and is a good 'citizen'.

I believe the visa process now includes a english test except for asyslum seekers.

But she speaks english mate, and understand english which is more than the majority of immigrants. My family are of immigrant descent too, so am all for immigration, but do feel that learning the language would help them intigrate more.

You wouldnt go and live in Japan without learning Japanese now would you.

 

[Thommo]

i was refering to multiculturism, them blending in and offering something to the country, nothing to do with creed or colour.

to those who dont live near or see whats happening its hard for you to judge or comment.

they dont blend, they make there own communities where they continue to speak there own tongue and continue to behave in ways they did in there own land.

id say based on being up north that 80% maybe even more - its a guess - offer nothing to the community or the country and are here mearly to sponge what they can get.

doctors, dentists ect... from other lands are welcome but most are not they are here to sponge and until you live near or see this i feel you can neither knock me or comment on my posts (not at anyone just in general).

walk in my shoes where i see this, live in houses that uk people have been moved out of for these people, see the ammounts of money that is thrown at them first hand not hearsay and i think you all would have a very different outlook on the country and these people.

it simply doesnt work because they dont want to be part of our society, they dont want to learn our way and the english language, its simply econmonic reasons they come here.

im just glad someone in the world has raised this issue and spoken out. its not about being a rascist but people fear being tarred with the brush if they speak out and im still waiting for it to happen in this thread as it always does.

if any tarring is directed my way i will greet it with an anti troll spell i found on the internet lol.

keep it real people , be a debater not a masterbater (w@nker).

 

[Evastar]

i don't see any post in this thread directed at you thommo? i was in two minds about whether to post this article or not, if there are any arguments caused or comments made that i feel to be targeting individuals the thread will be closed.

 

[Thommo]

i don't see any post in this thread directed at you thommo?

i know, its in before so i dont have to do it afterwards lol.

 

[janobi]

they dont blend, they make there own communities where they continue to speak there own tongue and continue to behave in ways they did in there own land.
keep it real people , be a debater not a masterbater (w@nker).

That is the point I was making mate, we have a massive indian/bangladeshi community here, and they are the same, dont intigrate properly and speak their own language as they feel comfortable. This is part of the problem, as it creates a barrier amongst the areas they live in, as people see it as rude.

 

[Evastar]

having said this, if you look at america, look at how they have a huge mix of cultures, the irish americans celebrate st patricks day and they also have large numbers of people from practically every nation and culture in the world living there.

has it worked better over there than in europe, is it because america is a relatively 'new' society?

or do the people from different cultures still not mix over there, e.g. the stereotypical jewish mother that wants her daughter to marry within the faith?

 

[janobi]

having said this, if you look at america, look at how they have a huge mix of cultures, the irish americans celebrate st patricks day and they also have large numbers of people from practically every nation and culture in the world living there.

has it worked better over there than in europe, is it because america is a relatively 'new' society?

or do the people from different cultures still not mix over there, e.g. the stereotypical jewish mother that wants her daughter to marry within the faith?

I think its prevalent everywhere, and if anything the US is even less accepting. The communities are even bigger in the US, most of California now speaks spanish as the first language because of the massive South American influx.

I think the main point is that its always easier to blame someone/something else, rather than accept that perhaps there are underlying problems withing your own society.

 

[Evastar]

so what is the solution, if any?

is it to give more aid to poorer countries rather than accepting immigrants?

is it to send jobs overseas (sweat shop labour)?

is it to tell people that if they do migrate they can only live in certain areas, eg no more than 30% of an area can be of a certain cultural mix?

of course a huge amount of it is religious conflict, i mean do we honestly have that big of an aversion to trying other culture's food or enjoying their art or music or whatever? no, it's the religious beliefs that cause most of the problems, yet again.

 

[janobi]

so what is the solution, if any?

is it to give more aid to poorer countries rather than accepting immigrants?

is it to send jobs overseas (sweat shop labour)?

is it to tell people that if they do migrate they can only live in certain areas, eg no more than 30% of an area can be of a certain cultural mix?

of course a huge amount of it is religious conflict, i mean do we honestly have that big of an aversion to trying other culture's food or enjoying their art or music or whatever? no, it's the religious beliefs that cause most of the problems, yet again.

TBH Eva, I dont know. And I think thats the problem, in that no one knows. I dont think any of the above will help tbh. Especially the more foreign aid, as this is normally cyphered off for people with other agendas, and very rarely actually gets to the communities/people who need it.

 

[Thommo]

nope i couldnt care less if there jewish muslim hindu or what ever. this thread has moved a little it was about them blending in to our ways not us having to accept theres.

its the seperation thing that the german fellow was refering to and he's correct.

learn the lingo, be brave enough to live amongst us and not segregate yourselfs away from us,

multiculturism is living together, and that has well and truley failed as the german guy said.

hence why i said earlier its nothing to do with creed or colour.

 

[digidude]

for european countries, there is no fix, the countries are fooked beyond repair. trying to be multicultural, and bend over backwards to please everyone else has backfired, and now all the countries who tried are overrun with people who will scream about their human rights, their religious rights, and any other 'minority' rights they can shout and scream about

what about when they become the majority though? will they then bend over for the minorities, will they fook

its all gonna end in tears, i moved out of a big city years ago to the side of a mountain where nothing much ever happens, and i hope my kids do the same before the shit hits the fan big time

 

[Evastar]

i honestly believe though that the majority of people aren't racist and would be happy to try to get along with other people regardless of their colour creed etc as long as the other person made a similar effort to try to get along with them.

a lot of it is fear of the unknown, if you look at it logically, moving to a strange country you do like to hear your own language and meet with people from a similar background to yourself. look at the british community in spain for example, people are herd creatures, its only natural for them to want to live near and socialise with people they have things in common with.

and also the scaremongering of the fanatical minority, on both sides, that doesn't help make a difficult situation any easier.

 

[Thommo]

yes but expats do intergrate with the spanish community, they herd together like you say but they dont segregate themselfs away from spanish people.

expats also dont scream and shout when shit dont go there way, expats dont go there just for the money, and most expats respect the culture they have moved into and do learn the lingo.

if you move to england try to blend into being here, some areas of bradford you would swear you was in pakistan, street names changed from english to pakistani, shop signs in pakistani and not english,not a word of english to be heard.

im not picking on them as the whole problem as its happening with polish romanians ect ect... now but how can anyone say that this happening is being part of the uk? its simply not... they come here for money but live and act the same as they would back home.

multiculturism has failed and it did from day one.

 

[Captin]

I don't think there will ever be integration. There never has been in the past.

When the Romans were marching through europe on there way to conquer England, do you think they stopped in each country to learn the language and customs, they didn't even bother with English when they got here.

When England invaded India to set up rule, did we learn Urdu, or any of the dozen dialects they speak, no we set up schools to teach them English instead.

When we went accross the pond and invaded America, did we learn Indian, no we participated in trying to wipe them out.

When we invaded Australia with a few hundred convicts did we learn Aborigine, nope we fecked up English with a silly accent.

When you go on holiday to Spain, France, Germany, Poland, Portugal or anywhere, do you think of learning all the languages or do you expect them to speak English, I know I don't learn them all, just the ones I travel to most often.

America is probably as good as it gets, but then they are ALL immigrants any way.