having some troubles :/

[big-ron]

Bit of a rethink, we seem to be going round in circles, so a few questions.

Did the bike run completely ok before it was stored, or just start ok ?

yes it ran very well, from what i seen.

The original fault was hesitating / stalling when you blipped the throttle. You're now riding 20 mins or so, so has the original problem gone ?

i think the 1st time as i never change the spark plug, once that was changed. i was getting the 20 mins ride.

Looking for something to connect the two if not :-

Plug now overheating, and no spark. If you try one of the overheated plugs, does it still spark when cold ?
If it does, the engine is overheating after 20 mins or so. Since low mileage and known history, assume no major engine damage.

tryed the old plug, no joy starting, sparking very little, but not arcing any where. only internal (within its self)

Does the temperature gauge read normal when plug stops sparking ? If not, is the coolant thermostat jammed shut ?
The thermistor that feeds the gauge is near the spark plug, so particularly relevant.
There is a test in the manual to check the gauge, if unsure.

the temperature is going up? cant find that test. sorry

Overheating couldn't cause the original problem you reported, but a couple of things could cause both.

Weak mixture for whatever reason. not sure what the setting are + wouldnt know how to, sorry again.

Spark retarded, or put another way, not advancing when revs increase.
Have you tested the pick up for this, procedure is in manual ? If that's ok, and wired ok to CDI, CDI is suspect.

If a pro can tell you whether it's mixture or ignition, well worth the money, but think about the above first.

Glad someone else can see what I'm trying to get at. We've all piled in with info, but not looked at the situation overall.

Guess we just wait for response now.

sorry for late response, couple of things, work put me on a course, and the BIG thing is my brother inlaw DID NOT CHANGE THE PISTON or RINGS like he said, my gutted, honest im so pissed off. so now on im on my own, and dont know much :/

any way been up to the garage where the bike is, put a new plug in an br9eg (runs at a higher temp) before that i done a compression test (not good) cold = reading 8.25 hot = 7 i will upload the pics.

not sure what i done here, can you read between the quotes, doh!

ive got a mini video also but its 30mb.
sorry for the pain.
ronnie

 

[miggy]

It should be around 120 psi ron. 110 the least. any less and you have a problem. Read the blue psi numbers again ron. the big picture is showing 100 psi and that is no good but your other picture is 120 psi. If you get 100 psi again then you will need to strip it down and get a complete kit like this one with a new oversized piston.

Aprilia RS125 Cylinder Kit 1997-2012 RS 125 Rotax 122 | eBay

 

[danforth]

sorry for late response, couple of things, work put me on a course, and the BIG thing is my brother inlaw DID NOT CHANGE THE PISTON or RINGS like he said, my gutted, honest im so pissed off. so now on im on my own, and dont know much :/

any way been up to the garage where the bike is, put a new plug in an br9eg (runs at a higher temp) before that i done a compression test (not good) cold = reading 8.25 hot = 7 i will upload the pics.

not sure what i done here, can you read between the quotes, doh!

ive got a mini video also but its 30mb.
sorry for the pain.
ronnie
View attachment 72914View attachment 72917
View attachment 72915View attachment 72918
View attachment 72916

Don't want to cause any aggro with your brother in law, but smelling a bit of a rat here. It's low mileage, maybe running ok before storage,
but you're not absolutely sure. No mention of piston/ring changes before. This would not even be considered unless there's a known problem,
it's not routine maintenance. Also now some doubt about carb adjustments etc.

As for where you are now, compression readings look on the low side, but wouldn't cause overheating. Overheating could be due to cooling system, ring gaps, bore/ piston damage, weak mixture, or ignition timing. If plugs don't work when cooled down again, they've been very hot, which is why I wondered whether temp gauge was inaccurate. We may be looking at different manuals re gauge check.

You need 3 resistors (pennies only), can attach manual test extract, if you need it, it's pretty simple. Once the gauge is checked, inaccurate readings can only be be caused by the thermistor (sensor) in the cylinder head. Even changing that won't alter your problem, but will confirm that overheating is the problem.

Plug picture still suggests weak mixture. Carb adjustments are detailed in the manual, but if you're unsure (or now lack trust in your brother in law) pro help seems a good idea. How about just getting a pro opinion, and checking back here ?

Don't worry about being "a pain", you're the one that's getting it !

 

[danforth]

It should be around 120 psi ron. 110 the least. any less and you have a problem. Read the blue psi numbers again ron. the big picture is showing 100 psi and that is no good but your other picture is 120 psi. If you get 100 psi again then you will need to strip it down and get a complete kit like this one with a new oversized piston.

Aprilia RS125 Cylinder Kit 1997-2012 RS 125 Rotax 122 | eBay

Looks very good, for the price !

 

[miggy]

Don't want to cause any aggro with your brother in law, but smelling a bit of a rat here. It's low mileage, maybe running ok before storage,
but you're not absolutely sure. No mention of piston/ring changes before. This would not even be considered unless there's a known problem,
it's not routine maintenance. Also now some doubt about carb adjustments etc.

As for where you are now, compression readings look on the low side, but wouldn't cause overheating. Overheating could be due to cooling system, ring gaps, bore/ piston damage, weak mixture, or ignition timing. If plugs don't work when cooled down again, they've been very hot, which is why I wondered whether temp gauge was inaccurate. We may be looking at different manuals re gauge check.

You need 3 resistors (pennies only), can attach manual test extract, if you need it, it's pretty simple. Once the gauge is checked, inaccurate readings can only be be caused by the thermistor (sensor) in the cylinder head. Even changing that won't alter your problem, but will confirm that overheating is the problem.

Plug picture still suggests weak mixture. Carb adjustments are detailed in the manual, but if you're unsure (or now lack trust in your brother in law) pro help seems a good idea. How about just getting a pro opinion, and checking back here ?

Don't worry about being "a pain", you're the one that's getting it !

Totally agree on this danforth ron needs more professional help. We have given him all the options now, it's up to ron to decide what to do. You cannot keep throwing money away on assumptions. Get it checked out properly ron it will save you heaps of money in the end.

 

[danforth]

Totally agree on this danforth ron needs more professional help. We have given him all the options now, it's up to ron to decide what to do. You cannot keep throwing money away on assumptions. Get it checked out properly ron it will save you heaps of money in the end.

This time completely agree. Just been checking, we never did hear the "Arthur Daley" outcome, did we ?

 

[miggy]

This time completely agree. Just been checking, we never did hear the "Arthur Daley" outcome, did we ?

I wonder if he did get that thermostat sorted out.He has not been on since has he?.

 

[danforth]

I wonder if he did get that thermostat sorted out.He has not been on since has he?.

Must admit, it had crossed my mind too. I do see what you mean about responsibility now, and the line between trying to help,

but needing to be aware you're dealing with someone of unknown abilities.

Come on Arthur, where are you.

 

[big-ron]

Must admit, it had crossed my mind too. I do see what you mean about responsibility now, and the line between trying to help,

but needing to be aware you're dealing with someone of unknown abilities.

Come on Arthur, where are you.

hi all, not been up the garage. sorry, but i think im going to have to take it to the bike shop, as been trying phone my bother all day with no answer

if its weak or wrong mixer, the shop would do that in five mins but would charge an hours work. which i might have to do.

i would like to try that test danforth that your on about? was thinking of get a new thermostat?
should i be check the compression when its cold or hot... or both? i did both yesterday but not tryed today, might pop up later.

thanks again
p.s not getting this Arthur???

ronnie

 

[miggy]

Here is how to set the mixture ron. There should be two screws on the carb idle and air. If you turn the air screw out it will let more air through, and turning in less air. To set, start by turning the air in as far as it will go, then back it out about 1 to 1.5 turns. get the engine warmed up and running at a steady idle and adjust the air screw in or out bit by bit and see if the engine picks up. once you've found where it's revving best, drop the idle and adjust the air again. You want it to idle steadily at low RPM so you're not wasting fuel. Arthur had a problem with a room thermostat not a bike ron.

 

[big-ron]

Here is how to set the mixture ron. There should be two screws on the carb idle and air. If you turn the air screw out it will let more air through, and turning in less air. To set, start by turning the air in as far as it will go, then back it out about 1 to 1.5 turns. get the engine warmed up and running at a steady idle and adjust the air screw in or out bit by bit and see if the engine picks up. once you've found where it's revving best, drop the idle and adjust the air again. You want it to idle steadily at low RPM so you're not wasting fuel. Arthur had a problem with a room thermostat not a bike ron.

ok cheers miggy, ill go up now and give it go

 

[miggy]

I cannot think of anything else at the moment can you danforth?.

 

[danforth]

Suggest stick with miggy for now.

Can explain gauge test, and thermistor later if needed. Thermostat is different, may be relevant, but later.

 

[big-ron]

Suggest stick with miggy for now.

Can explain gauge test, and thermistor later if needed. Thermostat is different, may be relevant, but later.

just before i go up, very short vid clip here 125 rs aprilia test - YouTube

 

[danforth]

@ miggy

Cross posted, but can't suggest anything further, until mixture setting has been checked.

 

[miggy]

That tick over is not to clever ron you are peaking 500/600 rpm it should be better than that. White smoke at the back means there could be water in the engine ie blown gasket ron. Tweek it up and see what happens.

 

[danforth]

Just to add, Ron, if you can read this up there, but don't let it distract you.

Has the coolant level dropped since you filled it ?

 

[big-ron]

Just to add, Ron, if you can read this up there, but don't let it distract you.

Has the coolant level dropped since you filled it ?

ok lads im back, ive messed on a little, its sounds a little better and the smoke is gone.

coolant level ok, not move at all, temp looks like its working fine also, took her around the block, 1st gear is hard to pull away, as if she wants to cut out, or that could be me :/. here are some more pic's of the plug after run, the compression is still not good, reading at 1000.
the plug looks wet but its not, its more of a matt dry. if you konw what i mean.

new video 125 rs apilia test 2 - YouTube

 

[miggy]

Here is a chart ron see which picture looks like your plug. NGK Spark Plugs USA

If the compression is still low it may need stripping down and that piston kit putting on. Unless dan has any other ideas for you to try.

 

[danforth]

Here is a chart ron see which picture looks like your plug. NGK Spark Plugs USA

If the compression is still low it may need stripping down and that piston kit putting on. Unless dan has any other ideas for you to try.

Plug looks better to me. The NGK chart (I'm guessing) would be for 4 stroke engines ie no oil in the mix. Anyway don't think it's weak now.

The apparent obsession with the temp was because I could think of nothing that would permanently damage a new plug (internal arcing) except heat.
If it was heat damage, and the gauge wasn't showing high temp, the gauge / thermistor had to be faulty. Thermistor is also next to plug and may be cooked.

That may seem irrelevant, but the only temp indication we have is the gauge, and we needed to know for sure if the engine was overheating, or not.
Hope that makes sense, I know what I mean, but may not be passing it across too well.

Even then a bit puzzled. the cylinder jacket is watercooled, but is the cylinder head ? No fins and long spark plug thread suggests it may be, but not sure.
Will see what pictures I can find, manual I have is not clear in that area.

The compression reading is low for a high compression ratio engine, but don't think just wear alone would cause overheating,
could be loss of compression due to expansion, but it would need to be pretty drastic to stop a running engine.
If there's ring /bore damage as well, that's another matter

@ Ron, This is just discussion, suggest you ignore above for now. More important to try bike and see what changes, if any.