having some troubles :/

[danforth]

Ok, bookmarked that as well. At least we'll be singing off the same hymn sheet.

Has this bike ever run properly, seem to remember you've not had it long ?

CDI unit may be pricey, have you had a look for loose leads, terminal corrosion etc.
There are some online breaker networks for car parts. You put in a part request, and they come back with quote.
Anything similar for bikes ? It's quite old now, so s/h parts possible.

 

[big-ron]

i bought it off my bother, he had it running last year and has been being running for the 3 years before that, mot'ed ect,ect then went off working, yes the bike did stand around for a year but well covered up and in dry, that why we changed everything on it,oil, plug, 2 stroke oil, petrol, filters. its got 8770 miles on it. i havent check the wires on the cdi unit. i will tomorrow morining. buying a second hand cdi unit is taking a bit of a chance? do you think it could be that? from what i am saying?

thanks

 

[danforth]

i bought it off my bother, he had it running last year and has been being running for the 3 years before that, mot'ed ect,ect then went off working, yes the bike did stand around for a year but well covered up and in dry, that why we changed everything on it,oil, plug, 2 stroke oil, petrol, filters. its got 8770 miles on it. i havent check the wires on the cdi unit. i will tomorrow morining. buying a second hand cdi unit is taking a bit of a chance? do you think it could be that? from what i am saying?

thanks

You seem to have covered things that could be affected by storage then, but the intermittent nature seems to suggest ignition rather than fuel.
CDI units seem unlikely to be affected by storage because sealed. Loose, corroded, connection are possible,and fixing costs nothing.

The coil resistance value is specified in the manual I was looking at, might be worth a check as well.

Is there a dealer nearby who would swap the CDI unit, on a trial basis, very little labour is involved.

More than one problem at the same time, is possible, but not likely. Is there some sort of sensor feeding into the CDI unit ?
Something must control ignition advance, which is related to rpm, wiring to sensor may be worth a check.

You may just have to eliminate possibilities by changing parts, just like dealers do, especially sealed parts.
S/H parts are a risk, but if they don't fix your problem, you may be able to sell them on.

Looking at the manual, it's pretty complex for a small bike. Good luck, nothing worse than an intermittent fault.

 

[danforth]

ok futher update, sorry for the delay as i was pissed off yesterday, went out on the bike, started up as normal... great,
took her out pulling fine, then about 20 mins if that, dies on me she wouldnt even turn over this time. so put bike away went training to release some anger . thats it. i think ill leave it for now and go back the wkend with my head fresh.

Another thought for what it's worth. "She wouldnt even turn over this time". Bad/loose earth connection, or power feed ?
Battery would go flat if stored long term, recharge not always reliable. When it won't turn over, check the voltage, on load, if you can,
turn lights on maybe.

If it sometimes runs well for 20mins, is it heat related eg, any chafed wiring, next to expanding metal parts.

Speculating now, but the only consistent thing seems to be inconsistency, if that makes sense.

 

[big-ron]

Another thought for what it's worth. "She wouldnt even turn over this time". Bad/loose earth connection, or power feed ?
Battery would go flat if stored long term, recharge not always reliable. When it won't turn over, check the voltage, on load, if you can,
turn lights on maybe.

If it sometimes runs well for 20mins, is it heat related eg, any chafed wiring, next to expanding metal parts.

Speculating now, but the only consistent thing seems to be inconsistency, if that makes sense.

me again

just come back from messing on with bike. coil must be ok, as its sparking ok (about 0.7 mm away from body with new the spark plug)
old plug is well fcuked tho, changed plug got again 20-30 mins out of her, same thing again (not starting) so i (THINK) its burning the plug out? but not sure how or why? im off out to get a couple of plugs up westgate rd, if she starts right away with new plug, i might be getting some where, not sure where like lol.what could cause burning out of sparks plug.
thanks again & sry for been a pain.

 

[miggy]

Ron when you say the plug is burnt out what do you mean?. has the electrode burnt out?.Or is it just black and very sooty. If its black then this indicates either the choke is sticking on or a worn carb making the mixture very rich and creating a weak spark at the plug. Are you using the correct plug for that model of bike?. there are two different types. Finally have you checked the position of the fuel tap on your tank?. If it's on full try switching it to reserve and see if there is any change or visa versa.

 

[big-ron]

Ron when you say the plug is burnt out what do you mean?. has the electrode burnt out?.Or is it just black and very sooty. If its black then this indicates either the choke is sticking on or a worn carb making the mixture very rich and creating a weak spark at the plug. Are you using the correct plug for that model of bike?. there are two different types. Finally have you checked the position of the fuel tap on your tank?. If it's on full try switching it to reserve and see if there is any change or visa versa.

hi miggy, well my brother inlaw says it has burnt out, but he also said it is running little rich? but not that rich. the plug was sparking great before putiing it in (0.7mm away from the body), then after 15-20 mins of running on the road, we check the plug again as it died, the spark was very very weak, yes a little black. but it was not even arcing. very little spark but only in its self (internal). the bike shop gave me the spark plugs after telling them what bike it was from.. and told them whats going on with the bike. there said try a higher temp plug.
so at the min i have put in an br9eg plug, started up 1st time then i turned it off, came in for a cuppa. the standard plug is an br10eg. iwill give it go later and see what happens.

hope you understand this? im trying to tell you as it happens in the best way i know, as im not very good with bike (at all)

ron

 

[wiz569]

Have you tried replacing the spark plug lead?

 

[big-ron]

Have you tried replacing the spark plug lead?

all done mate with new coil.

 

[danforth]

Ron when you say the plug is burnt out what do you mean?. has the electrode burnt out?.Or is it just black and very sooty. If its black then this indicates either the choke is sticking on or a worn carb making the mixture very rich and creating a weak spark at the plug. Are you using the correct plug for that model of bike?. there are two different types. Finally have you checked the position of the fuel tap on your tank?. If it's on full try switching it to reserve and see if there is any change or visa versa.

@Ron

You don't seem to be answering the question about the plug state. Can you post a picture ?

If the electrode has melted, it's running very hot. I've never seen a melted plug, but as said before my 2 stroke experience is with lawn mowers.
Your engine has a high compression ratio, so would expect to run hotter than I'm familiar with. If it has melted, excess heat could be weak mixture,
caused by the inlet manifold cracks. Did you do anything about these ? If you can eliminate known problems, we might get somewhere.

 

[Rs2k_Rider]

@Ron

You don't seem to be answering the question about the plug state. Can you post a picture ?

If the electrode has melted, it's running very hot. I've never seen a melted plug, but as said before my 2 stroke experience is with lawn mowers.
Your engine has a high compression ratio, so would expect to run hotter than I'm familiar with. If it has melted, excess heat could be weak mixture,
caused by the inlet manifold cracks. Did you do anything about these ? If you can eliminate known problems, we might get somewhere.

That would make sense actually. As engine and surroundings warm up inlet cracks enlarge jut enough to cause weak mixture and cook the plug. Could be why you can't find the issue being as when it starts again its cooled down and cracks have closed enough again to correct the mixture.
Hope that makes sense

 

[big-ron]

@Ron

You don't seem to be answering the question about the plug state. Can you post a picture ?

If the electrode has melted, it's running very hot. I've never seen a melted plug, but as said before my 2 stroke experience is with lawn mowers.
Your engine has a high compression ratio, so would expect to run hotter than I'm familiar with. If it has melted, excess heat could be weak mixture,
caused by the inlet manifold cracks. Did you do anything about these ? If you can eliminate known problems, we might get somewhere.

it not melted danforth, well to me it dont look like it, but i did see it trying to spark, and it was piss poor.
here is a pic for you to look at, its not the best.

the inlet manifold is fine we check it, no cracks what so eva, the rubber bit has cracks but not gone though, as we checked that also.

 

[miggy]

hi miggy, well my brother inlaw says it has burnt out, but he also said it is running little rich? but not that rich. the plug was sparking great before putiing it in (0.7mm away from the body), then after 15-20 mins of running on the road, we check the plug again as it died, the spark was very very weak, yes a little black. but it was not even arcing. very little spark but only in its self (internal). the bike shop gave me the spark plugs after telling them what bike it was from.. and told them whats going on with the bike. there said try a higher temp plug.
so at the min i have put in an br9eg plug, started up 1st time then i turned it off, came in for a cuppa. the standard plug is an br10eg. iwill give it go later and see what happens.

hope you understand this? im trying to tell you as it happens in the best way i know, as im not very good with bike (at all)

ron

I have looked at your pictures ron the plug is not burnt out it's carboned up the choke could be stuck on. Did you say you stripped the carb down to clean it?. has the mixture screw been set to it's pre state?. See how you get on with that new plug ron and if that goes sooty again your mixture setting is way out. Its over choking and stalling. Failing that you will need to run a compression test on it to check the state of the piston, valves ect.

 

[big-ron]

I have looked at your pictures ron the plug is not burnt out it's carboned up the choke could be stuck on. Did you say you stripped the carb down to clean it?. has the mixture screw been set to it's pre state?. See how you get on with that new plug ron and if that goes sooty again your mixture setting is way out. Its over choking and stalling. Failing that you will need to run a compression test on it to check the state of the piston, valves ect.

yes mate carb stripped down twice, cleaned then set back up, im guessing the mixture screw been set, as i wouldnt know, but i do trust my brother inlaw as he has had bikes all his life, that was my next thing to do a compression test, will buy one tomorrow. i think their only £20.

i might have to take it to the shop to get checked out. the bloke siad £30 ph just to look.
cheers guys
ron

 

[miggy]

ron don't jump in at the first quote you get. I have typed in your location and these motorcycle repair shops have come up. Best of luck mate and keep us all informed.
Motorcycle Repairs & Services in Gateshead | Reviews - Yell

 

[wiz569]

I know they are out of focus pics but it looks as if its running lean to me not rich,which would tie in with Rs_2K's diagnosis above,
if I remember correctly from my biker days it would be sooted up if its running rich,

Then again I may need to go to specsavers

 

[danforth]

i might have to take it to the shop to get checked out. the bloke siad £30 ph just to look.
cheers guys
ron

Beginning to think that might be the best idea, you must have spent more than £30 so far, and have you an ongoing use for a compression tester ?

An accurate diagnosis is well worth the money (provided you get one), then decide cheapest course of action.

 

[danforth]

Bit of a rethink, we seem to be going round in circles, so a few questions.

Did the bike run completely ok before it was stored, or just start ok ?

The original fault was hesitating / stalling when you blipped the throttle. You're now riding 20 mins or so, so has the original problem gone ?

Looking for something to connect the two if not :-

Plug now overheating, and no spark. If you try one of the overheated plugs, does it still spark when cold ?
If it does, the engine is overheating after 20 mins or so. Since low mileage and known history, assume no major engine damage.

Does the temperature gauge read normal when plug stops sparking ? If not, is the coolant thermostat jammed shut ?
The thermistor that feeds the gauge is near the spark plug, so particularly relevant.
There is a test in the manual to check the gauge, if unsure.

Overheating couldn't cause the original problem you reported, but a couple of things could cause both.

Weak mixture for whatever reason.

Spark retarded, or put another way, not advancing when revs increase.
Have you tested the pick up for this, procedure is in manual ? If that's ok, and wired ok to CDI, CDI is suspect.

If a pro can tell you whether it's mixture or ignition, well worth the money, but think about the above first.

 

[wasnotwasD]

The original fault was hesitating / stalling when you blipped the throttle. You're now riding 20 mins or so, so has the original problem gone ?

Looking for something to connect the two if not :-

Plug now overheating, and no spark. If you try one of the overheated plugs, does it still spark when cold ?
If it does, the engine is overheating after 20 mins or so. Since low mileage and known history, assume no major engine damage.

Does the temperature gauge read normal when plug stops sparking ? If not, is the coolant thermostat jammed shut ?
The thermistor that feeds the gauge is near the spark plug, so particularly relevant.
There is a test in the manual to check the gauge, if unsure.

Overheating couldn't cause the original problem you reported, but a couple of things could cause both.

Weak mixture for whatever reason.

Spark retarded, or put another way, not advancing when revs increase.
Have you tested the pick up for this, procedure is in manual ? If that's ok, and wired ok to CDI, CDI is suspect.

If a pro can tell you whether it's mixture or ignition, well worth the money, but think about the above first.

I'm no expert either Ron, but can see where danforth is going with this.
If it is stopping after 20 mins or so. What happens after that? How do you get it home ? etc etc How long before you get it going again?

Cos it sounds a little like the engine could be nipping up. Maybe coolant problem?? Or 2 stroke oil mixture problem???

 

[danforth]

I'm no expert either Ron, but can see where danforth is going with this.
If it is stopping after 20 mins or so. What happens after that? How do you get it home ? etc etc How long before you get it going again?

Cos it sounds a little like the engine could be nipping up. Maybe coolant problem?? Or 2 stroke oil mixture problem???

Glad someone else can see what I'm trying to get at. We've all piled in with info, but not looked at the situation overall.

Guess we just wait for response now.