First UK ID cards are unveiled

karym6 said:
yes, of course. There is nothing like a four year old news report to put perspective on things. I would imagine then, that you are discounting the more recent reports? And the current timescale?
Click to expand...

Yes actually it does put perspective on my original argument - it illustrates my piont that the scheme is ill thought out and has been argued about by the government for many years - these cards we are talking about are the exact same scheme discussed in that newspaper story. If you recall the point I made was how can we trust a scheme that has been scrapped - reinvented and sped up that finally makes it to legislation but with no real idea of what it will entail in the future.

Its the same scheme you know

you are more than entitled to look like this flagwave

The rest of us have a right to be cynical and there is nothing you can do about that.
 
gooner71 said:
@topdog1965 - you ask for one example as to why carrying a bit of plastic in your wallet can affect your life in a negative way - well here goes:-

Whatever information is held on the card will be like a goldmine to identity cloners. Why go through bins to get bit of info when you can have it handed to you on a plate all nicely arranged and verified? And before you say the card will be secure - it cant be unbreakable - in the same way that chip and pin cards arent or any other type of card you care to mention? Oh and please remember how inadequately this govenment and other private companies have treated sensitive data - do you really want everything about you up for grabs?

Do you really want your wherebaouts able to be logged - with the RFID chip inside these cards thats a very real possibility - and before you say "if you are doing nothing wrong it doesnt matter" well, it does matter - i dont want to live under a police state regime - and considering we have had millions of immigrants to the UK fleeing exactly that sort of persecution im sure im not alone!!

At the moment, police officers must have reasonable cause to "stop" you - how convenient is it to have a card that can be asked for at anytime to prove your ID - sort of circumvents that sort of legislation??

In fairness there are some positive benefits to it - being able to prove who you are - for the younsters to prove their age etc.. but the benefits are clearly outweighed and quite frankly its just another expense we and the government can do without!!
Click to expand...

Some valid points made.
But I wonder what percentage of ID fraud do countries have that make Id cards compulsory
 
karym6 said:
to be perfectly frank, your point is vague................... you will see from the the thread so far (if you managed to read all of it) ..................You may not have realised...............You may want to have a bit more of a read on it

--------------------------------------------

I fail to see how you can claim a report from four years ago proves this is a poorly thought out plan.
Click to expand...
Let me split this reply into two sections for you

Reply to top section

you talk to people like a proper : asshole

And any plan that takes 5+ years to formulate and is still incomplete when rollout begins is obviously a bad one.

No matter how many times you try to belittle the members here who disagree with you by telling them to have another read - your post remains a marker to your presence here and I hope people judge you for the derisive contemptuous google-assembled shit stirrer that you have become.
DW is about underground and hacking - not flaming over news stories like a kid fanboying his xbox or whatever. So you have a strong opinion on everything - why dont you put that energy into something usefull like the 10 downing st forum. Who knows you may make a difference - or probably get banned , more importantly who cares.

Now I know that my opinions may no be up to newsnight standard but I would like to comment casually on the news section without you jeremy bloody paxmaning me and anyone else who cares to comment with your intollerable self assured flaming. Im here to use the site as a resource and post helpfull posts to people who enjoy the scene. You are just here to argue with anyone - about anything, like your avatar states.

Pathetic
 
Nice post hawkish:Clap::Clap::Clap:
hawkish said:
Let me split this reply into two sections for you

Reply to top section

you talk to people like a proper : asshole

And any plan that takes 5+ years to formulate and is still incomplete when rollout begins is obviously a bad one.

No matter how many times you try to belittle the members here who disagree with you by telling them to have another read - your post remains a marker to your presence here and I hope people judge you for the derisive contemptuous google-assembled shit stirrer that you have become.
DW is about underground and hacking - not flaming over news stories like a kid fanboying his xbox or whatever. So you have a strong opinion on everything - why dont you put that energy into something usefull like the 10 downing st forum. Who knows you may make a difference - or probably get banned , more importantly who cares.

Now I know that my opinions may no be up to newsnight standard but I would like to comment casually on the news section without you jeremy bloody paxmaning me and anyone else who cares to comment with your intollerable self assured flaming. Im here to use the site as a resource and post helpfull posts to people who enjoy the scene. You are just here to argue with anyone - about anything, like your avatar states.

Pathetic
Click to expand...
 
Hawkish.

I normally like your opinions on things. I think you have overstepped the mark here bud, I really do.

Maybe a mod should step in and close the thread?

Pro- ID cards would help in identifying those who should not be in this country, and would make it easier to detect criminal activity.

Against- ID cards are another step toward a 'big brother' state, and there issues regarding identity theft.

Finished?
 
I'm sure everyone agrees that this thread has run it's course a while back.

Thanks for the reasoned debate guys (for the most part), but I don't think there's going to be much in the way of value add from here on in.

Can a Mod please close this thread now...thanks.
 
topdog1965 said:
Some valid points made.
But I wonder what percentage of ID fraud do countries have that make Id cards compulsory
Click to expand...

Not particularly relevant as the ID card being proposed by the UK government is a completely different animal to what is currently used elsewhere.

Most places use a basic ID card whereas the one proposed for here is likely to contain biometrics,dna profile, RFID etc..
 
Agreed - we have now sucesfully decided that ID cards are a bad idea


(Just Kidding!) Im happy just not to post in it any more, It would be nice to avoid closing it if its not needed
 
Now that Karym6 and hawkish are back in the spoon position, I am happy as a clam.

The only thing we need to know now is, who is the daddy spoon?
 
HOLD ON !!!!


Come on Katym6.....Make with the Mulla...... the dough rea mea..... I know you are tighter than a ducks are in a storm but it's time to pay up..........:Cheers:
 
More than meets the eye?

You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to that.

What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity Register) where all of your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there.

There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence, sexual tastes, number of partners, medical records status and many other private and personal facts about you. There is unlimited space for every other details of your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament.

By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would be wrong to come to this conclusion. This new card will be used to check your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever you present it to 'prove who you are'.

Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every chemist, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your card can be 'swiped' to check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was presented. This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £99 at your branch of Nat West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made at the NIR. Restaurants and off licences will demand that your card is swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over 18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them from prosecution.

Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If you want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe.

If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card,or a supermarket loyalty card, or a driving licence you will have to present your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or a mobile phone or an internet account.

Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as every other business will be. This means that each of these entities will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping habits under your unique NIR number. These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed dossier of all your activities.

Certainly, the government will have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread you eat – all accessible via a single unique number in a central database.

This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your name and face.

Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it. The Government is going to COMPEL you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you whether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport.

Your ID Card will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to revoke or suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that requires you to present your government issued ID Card.

The arguments that have been put forwarded in favour of ID Cards can be easily disproved. ID Cards WILL NOT stop terrorists; every Spaniard has a compulsory ID Card as did the C.I.A Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not 'eliminate benefit fraud', most of which is done by government by withholding due payments, which in comparison, is small compared to the astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions according to the LSE (London School of Economics).

This scheme exists solely to exert total surveillance and control over the ordinary free British Citizen, and it will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.

If you did not know the full scope of the proposed ID Card Scheme before and you are as unsettled as I am at what it really means to you, to this country and its way of life, I urge you to email or photocopy this and give it to your friends and colleagues and everyone else you think should know and who cares. The Bill has proceeded to this stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this proposal being made public.

We can inform the entire nation if everyone who receives this passes it on.
 
Re: More than meets the eye?

Source please.

If it is a wacko conspiracy site, don't bother.

;)
 
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