Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time

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Armed officers placed on routine foot patrol for first time - Telegraph


Police officers armed with submachine guns are to be deployed on routine patrol of Britain's streets for the first time.

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A hand-picked team from CO19 will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns in gun crime hotspots Photo: PA

A hand-picked team from CO19, the Metropolitan Police's elite firearms unit, will walk the beat in gun crime hotspots where armed gangs have turned entire estates into "no go" zones.

Local politicians and anti-gun campaigners have reacted with anger at the news that the officers will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine guns – capable of firing up to 800 rounds-per-minute – and Glock semi-automatic pistols.

CO19 currently provides armed support in volatile situations like sieges and terrorist attacks, with its officers on constant call in vehicles around London.

But this is the first time that armed officers will be sent on permanent foot patrol anywhere in the country outside Northern Ireland.

"Historically, CO19 was only called out when someone rang up to report a gun crime," said Inspector Derek Carroll, head of the new unit.

"But a lot of streets in London have young people in postcode gangs, aged 14 and upwards, and a lot of communities feel that they are controlling areas of estates.

"We are looking at gangs that have access to firearms and will be robust in dealing with them and disrupting and deterring them."

The team of 18 constables, led by an inspector and two sergeants, will begin their patrols of Brixton, Haringey and Tottenham on Nov 9, following successful trial schemes.

The officers – some on motorbikes – will carrying out weapon "sweeps" of their neighbourhoods in an effort to deter gang members from carrying guns, and are also intended to be a reassuring presence for residents.

"My view is that just because you carry a gun, it should not affect the way you police," Inspector Carroll added. "We chat to people and they love it."

Unlike their counterparts in the United States, British police officers not routinely carry guns, although armed patrols are frequently deployed in the aftermath of shootings and to guard potential terrorist targets.

In October 2000 armed officers on the beat were temporarily introduced in Nottingham after a string of drug-related deaths.

Jennette Arnold, a Labour London Assembly member for northeast London constituency, said that the patrols threatened to tear up the contract between the community and the police.

"No one asked us or the people I represent if this was acceptable and when they do I shall tell them it isn't. It isn't acceptable to throw away the principle of policing by consent," she said.

Gill Marshall-Andrews, chairwoman of the Gun Control Network campaign group, described the routine arming of officers as a "very retrograde step" and warned that it could lead to higher levels of gun crime.

"This is likely to raise the stakes and encourage more criminals, especially young criminals, to arm themselves," she said.

"Gun crime in this country is very low by international standards and that's largely because there aren't many guns about. Arming police officers sends out all the wrong messages."

The Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, has long campaigned against attempts to arm a larger section of the force, but said it had no objection to the new scheme.

Simon Reed, vice-chairman of the national federation, said that although majority of his members did not wish be to armed, forces must be free to respond to particular threats.

"The ethos will always be that the British police are unarmed, but we need officers to be able to use firearms when appropriate," he said. "My feeling is that the current balance is just about right."

The Home Office declined to comment, saying that the operational use of firearms was a matter for local forces.

Officers from CO19, formerly known as SO19, have been involved in a number of high-profile incidents in the capital, including the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes at Stockwell station in 2005.

Gun-related crime is on the increase in London with 1,736 gun crimes reported in London between April and September this year – up 17 per cent on 2008.

The problem of turf violence between drugs gangs was highlighted earlier this month with a spate of shootings in north London linked to two Turkish gangs, the Tottenham Boys and the Bombacilar.
 
Good !! gun crime is not going away any time soon, better the police protect themselves now imo, with any luck they'll shoot some of the scum and save the country money on the cost of taking them to court and sending them to prison
 
better the police protect themselves now

I cannot make my mind up on this is it a good idea for the police to always carry firearms. Would this not then encourage the criminals who would not normally carry firearms to start using them

Do we take this to the next step and say, if the police have the right to carry firearms as protection. Then why not the rest of us

I think the only way left to try is to make the punishment so bad . You would not dare to do the crime in the 1st place

you get caught carrying a knife,gun,etc . You get locked up for 100 years and not in the soft prisons we have now

if your child gets caught doing something. Then make the parents pay

parents have to start taking responsibility for children they bring into this world
 
I don't think police officers should carry guns, it will encourage more youths to carry guns to protect themselves from the police as well as other gangs. If gang members want to kill each other we should let them and take a soft touch to policing them and concentrate on protecting the public. As long as gun crime against civilians is relatively low and does not grow I'd be against armed officers in my community.

Police officers can be very corrupt and a lot of these firearms will end up in the hands of criminals.
 
I dont think this is the force as a whole just the specialist co19 division making high profile patrols in problem estates, In principle I agree with this IF there is definite proof there is gun crime in that area with a risk to the public...... not just to give a false front and scare people.
 
I dont think this is the force as a whole just the specialist co19 division making high profile patrols in problem estates, In principle I agree with this IF there is definite proof there is gun crime in that area with a risk to the public...... not just to give a false front and scare people.

As time passes on I see a problem interpreting what a problem estate is? I'd opt for a more visible police presence in problem area's, guns seem like the wrong way to go.
 
As time passes on I see a problem interpreting what a problem estate is? I'd opt for a more visible police presence in problem area's, guns seem like the wrong way to go.


I can see your point here, where will it stop ? can see us heading the way of the USA soon :(
 
Am really struggling with this one!
I can't make my mind up if this is a good idea or not.....:err:
 
Happy days until they start to kill innocent people 800 rounds per minute seems a mite excessive to me.

Don't have a problem with armed police but they don't need submachine guns this is a political move to look hard on crime. Bet they won't be patrolling after the election next year.
 
They carried them over here for years and still do....didn't stop people killing them.

When I was a lad you couldn't play footie on a Sunday and had to lift the ball and run if you seen a cop and if they caught you spitting in the street you got your name took and reported to your parents.

I feared and respected the law and I believe thats what kept me on the straight and narrow.

A lot of youths nowdays just have no respect for anything, including the law and they grow up and join gangs.

Stop cutting the policing budget, get cops back on the beat and start enforcing the law....will never happen though.
 
I can see your point here, where will it stop ? can see us heading the way of the USA soon :(

Well it's just as easy to own a firearm over here, legal or not, so I sincerely hope not. Either way living in London we'll be directly effected by this.

The thought of the good ol British bobby's truncheon being replaced with an automatic firearm sickens me. I guess this just illustrates which way our society is heading.
 
I agree with the police carrying firearms.

Criminals over here already have guns, and our law enforcement are under protected, under equipped, and under supported to deal with it.

Ask yourself a question, what scares you, a policeman walking passed you with a fire arm, or the usual group of plastic gangsters giving you shit for looking at them?
 
I agree with the police carrying firearms.

Criminals over here already have guns, and our law enforcement are under protected, under equipped, and under supported to deal with it.

Ask yourself a question, what scares you, a policeman walking passed you with a fire arm, or the usual group of plastic gangsters giving you shit for looking at them?

agree 100% here! our police are armed with a baton n cs spray...put that against a gun and then its there life in the balance and the people who have the guns really dont give a fuk...i think the police carrying guns will install a bit of fear which seems to be lacking between the police and public in this country
 
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agree 100% here! our police are armed with a baton n cs spray...put that against a gun and then its there life in the balance and the people who have the guns really dont give a fuk...i think the police carrying guns will install a bit of fear which seems to be lacking between the police and public in this country

You want to install fear between the police and the public!
Ok then.:err:
 
agree 100% here! our police are armed with a baton n cs spray...put that against a gun and then its there life in the balance and the people who have the guns really dont give a fuk...i think the police carrying guns will install a bit of fear which seems to be lacking between the police and public in this country

Welcome to a police state. : grim :
 
just cos they casn fire 800 rounds a minute dont mean that they do, think how big the magazine would have to be

its about time something like this happened, would the little gobshites be so mouthy and aggressive towards the police who are just doing their job if they had a machine gun pointed at them??

a few months ago SO19 were in my street after a massive fight, cops guns and dogs everywhere, and when the normal police were here, there was still fighting and screaming going on for a good 15 mins, the police dogs were met with rottweilers, and the fighting still carried on, the cops with guns arrived and things suddenly went very quiet
 
As I say above I agree with "specialist" firearms teams taking to the streets, but would be 100% against arming all police...... just look at this incident.

Police probe after CS spray used in arrest outside blazing club | News


What would they of done if they were armed with a firearm.

If the dickhead was assaulting a paramedic hopefully shot the prick in the leg!

Jesus Christ we are soft.

That article is hardly the best example of Police abusing their power now is it?

What it actually indicates is that there are rigorous procedures and independent complaint panels in place to deal with any suspicion of an abuse of power. So it actually makes my case stronger.

I am not calling for the arming of a group of vigilantes. I am calling for the arming of possibly the best police force in the world.
 
If the dickhead was assaulting a paramedic hopefully shot the prick in the leg!

Jesus Christ we are soft.

That article is hardly the best example of Police abusing their power now is it?

What it actually indicates is that there are rigorous procedures and independent complaint panels in place to deal with any suspicion of an abuse of power. So it actually makes my case stronger.

I am not calling for the arming of a group of vigilantes. I am calling for the arming of possibly the best police force in the world.



YES IT IS.... the bloke was cs gassed, then smashed face first into a police car.... excessive force. Hence why the ipcc are investigating it
 
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