Sensible Topic Scottish Independence worth £500

[MFCGMFC]

to be honest i dont see why one country should rule another

why cant we go ourselves? successive uk governements have squandered our resources and money, why cant we run our own country?

we pay more in per head of population than any other uk member and get a lot less out, we have majority of natural resource with new oilfields just been discovered off the isle of lewis worth in the region of 100 years of oil

the only two things stopping me from voting yes is, what currency will we use and the immigration policy

the pound is as much ours as it is englands

we should adopt the same policy as other major countries, if you dont have anything to offer to the country then you cant come in! same as USA, Canada and Australia !

also watching a government, that we didnt vote for struggle, it looks as if the next coalition could be tory/ukip...thats enough of a reason to vote YES

 

[casuk]

I agree mate

Sent from my Xolo_X900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Him Her]

to be honest i dont see why one country should rule another

why cant we go ourselves? successive uk governements have squandered our resources and money, why cant we run our own country?

we pay more in per head of population than any other uk member and get a lot less out, we have majority of natural resource with new oilfields just been discovered off the isle of lewis worth in the region of 100 years of oil

the only two things stopping me from voting yes is, what currency will we use and the immigration policy

the pound is as much ours as it is englands

we should adopt the same policy as other major countries, if you dont have anything to offer to the country then you cant come in! same as USA, Canada and Australia !

also watching a government, that we didnt vote for struggle, it looks as if the next coalition could be tory/ukip...thats enough of a reason to vote YES

Safety in numbers?

 

[Bronto]

Funny how you mention that we'd not get in the EU when infact Scottish goverment have said we would join the EU.

Joe.

Scotland would have to get the unanimous agreement of every other EU country, not just in principle but on all the details such as budget, border controls, the euro as the currency, fishing rights, blah blah blah, So it would be a long complicated negotiation and past records of other countries joining the European Union is that this takes years not months

Having said that I do hope you get it, I believe we will be much better off without you

 

[Him Her]

Actually, I think a 'Yes' vote and we're all fooked TBH.

 

[Joe1989]

We're all ready in the EU Bronto.

There hasn't been a precentidance of this yet to go from therefore theirs people that look at the laws, some say i'd already be a part of it. Some say we would need to re-apply a new member state.

What is 100% Sure if that if Scotland wants to be in the EU then we vote yes. If you want to take the gamble of letting England decide for the Welsh, NI and Scotland then we vote.

Typical You Scots cost us english money attitude. Away and do some research

 

[Bronto]

Joe I don't have a "you Scots cost us money attitude" I just feel if the majority of Scots want independence then let them have it, I am just of the opinion that we would be better off without you, that's just my opinion, in reality the average Scot and the average Englishman would probably notice no difference, there would be a big political shift to the Right in England as Labour lost the Scottish vote, but again in my opinion that would be good for us at this point in time

 

[Him Her]

I'm sure Europe is just loving this! Sure, the separatism thing gives them some political stuff to handle but heyho, let them all get smaller, all the easier to beat a submission out of them eh?

There will be little or no opposition to an independent Scotland either remaining in the EU or joining it relatively soon after independence - the EU wants everyone in. Any legal arguments will soon be, erm, removed.

The greater problem is the ability of an independent Scotland to negotiate any significant change. This would be diminished with independence as will the ability of the smaller UK.

The negotiation will be quite short as Scotland already operates under much of EU legislation in any case being currently part of the UK. Currency is irrelevant, an independent Scotland could adopt the US Dollar if it so wished. Or any other International currency.

No, the greater risk is the ensuing Federalism that will screw us all, Scotland needs fairer representation but I have yet to be convinced that independence will provide that?

 

[eon]

there would be a big political shift to the Right in England as Labour lost the Scottish vote, but again in my opinion that would be good for us at this point in time

Got to agree with you there, and as you say it wont be a bad thing either. Scots hate us that much they will break up one of the most successful unions to have existed to join another not so successful union that will demand more surrendering of powers. How very independent. That is to say if Scotland even get they EU membership this side of 2020, and the assumption Scotland will be able to pick and choose what they take on board from the EU pmsl. We have the opt outs and special measures simply because we are force to be reckoned with within Europe as a Union the United Kingdom. We will be ok when the scots leave, our terms within the EU have already been agreed.

One last point i always hear is 'we can keep the pound if we want blah blah' like it is ours, Englands and Scotlands to share. Seems the scots forget about the rest of the UK. Its the unions currency and its quite clear they don't want the union with us so they can have their union with the EU and adopt their currency.

 

[Him Her]

Got to agree with you there, and as you say it wont be a bad thing either. Scots hate us that much they will break up one of the most successful unions to have existed to join another not so successful union that will demand more surrendering of powers. How very independent. That is to say if Scotland even get they EU membership this side of 2020, and the assumption Scotland will be able to pick and choose what they take on board from the EU pmsl. We have the opt outs and special measures simply because we are force to be reckoned with within Europe as a Union the United Kingdom. We will be ok when the scots leave, our terms within the EU have already been agreed.

One last point i always hear is 'we can keep the pound if we want blah blah' like it is ours, Englands and Scotlands to share. Seems the scots forget about the rest of the UK. Its the unions currency and its quite clear they don't want the union with us so they can have their union with the EU and adopt their currency.

Ignoring your first paragraph which has some element of truth, your second paragraph is rubbish! The £ is an international currency, ANY country can choose to adopt it. The limitation is only that they have to accept the Bank of England determining its value vs other International currencies. Scotland could keep the £ but would have to negotiate control of its value vis-a-vis the rest of the World. That's it. It would take seconds to adopt the £ but they may NEVER negotiate any level of control. That said, if I was voting for Independence I'd probably say "so what?"

 

[eon]

Ignoring your first paragraph which has some element of truth, your second paragraph is rubbish! The £ is an international currency, ANY country can choose to adopt it. The limitation is only that they have to accept the Bank of England determining its value vs other International currencies. Scotland could keep the £ but would have to negotiate control of its value vis-a-vis the rest of the World. That's it. It would take seconds to adopt the £ but they may NEVER negotiate any level of control. That said, if I was voting for Independence I'd probably say "so what?"

Why is it rubbish? I never said they couldn't keep it if they wanted to, i was saying they want out of the union so as far as i am concerned that means leaving the currency aswell. But they wont do that, they like stability and benefits of the currency union. Threatening us with dumping us with all the debt if they dont get it, selfish twats, want independence but don't have the balls to actually go fully independent and dump the union all together.

 

[Him Her]

Why is it rubbish? I never said they couldn't keep it if they wanted to, i was saying they want out of the union so as far as i am concerned that means leaving the currency aswell. But they wont do that, they like stability and benefits of the currency union. Threatening us with dumping us with all the debt if they dont get it, selfish twats, want independence but don't have the balls to actually go fully independent and dump the union all together.

Accepted! Over-tired me, no offence

 

[bigbadblue05]

Well i was going to keep out this thread as i knew it would go this way but, I'm Scottish foremost and British and proud to be British,why ?,because i say so, and that's my choice and there's no taking that away from me ever! and there's many like me up here that feels the same,so i wont be voting for an independent Scotland,why? loads of reasons some already mentioned,But i will state the obvious one to me, my grandfather and grandfathers father fought for the UK to be the UK in both wars(front line) and lost there life's in doing so unfortunately ,I knew this thread would end up with the usual,let them go shit ! We will be better without them crap!,Well i will tell you's now it's not going to happen it's all hype, so don't get your self's worked up about it,Will you let me into England if it does ? would i be allowed ?....lol..oops the EU...they maybe allow it anyway.

 

[Joe1989]

I'm sure Europe is just loving this! Sure, the separatism thing gives them some political stuff to handle but heyho, let them all get smaller, all the easier to beat a submission out of them eh?

There will be little or no opposition to an independent Scotland either remaining in the EU or joining it relatively soon after independence - the EU wants everyone in. Any legal arguments will soon be, erm, removed.

The greater problem is the ability of an independent Scotland to negotiate any significant change. This would be diminished with independence as will the ability of the smaller UK.

The negotiation will be quite short as Scotland already operates under much of EU legislation in any case being currently part of the UK. Currency is irrelevant, an independent Scotland could adopt the US Dollar if it so wished. Or any other International currency.

No, the greater risk is the ensuing Federalism that will screw us all, Scotland needs fairer representation but I have yet to be convinced that independence will provide that?

Independence will provide fairer politicial representation in scotland.

Who knows weather it provide fairir representation in the EU - But lefts face it the UK does not have that much influence over the EU anyway. Look at Cameron shouting about the new EU leader, no ones taking any notice.

Got to agree with you there, and as you say it wont be a bad thing either. Scots hate us that much they will break up one of the most successful unions to have existed to join another not so successful union that will demand more surrendering of powers. How very independent. That is to say if Scotland even get they EU membership this side of 2020, and the assumption Scotland will be able to pick and choose what they take on board from the EU pmsl. We have the opt outs and special measures simply because we are force to be reckoned with within Europe as a Union the United Kingdom. We will be ok when the scots leave, our terms within the EU have already been agreed.

One last point i always hear is 'we can keep the pound if we want blah blah' like it is ours, Englands and Scotlands to share. Seems the scots forget about the rest of the UK. Its the unions currency and its quite clear they don't want the union with us so they can have their union with the EU and adopt their currency.

Sucessful union? 1.5T pound of debt? I suppose its been sucessful for the UK with all the money from scotland its received aye, but political fair? Nah.

People who want indpendance i.e. my self do not hate the english, welsh or the NI.

I hate that SOME people have been brain washed into beleving scotland costs the rUK money by the media - Simple not true.

More importantly, I do not believe we have a fail democracy as part of the Union, Our vote is useless in comparison to the rest of the UK's - Wish is also why the'll be no big shift to the right either. If you look back on past elections around 90% of them where decided without a Scottish vote - English choose the goverment for it, and on multiple occasion that government was the tories and one tatcher!

 

[Joe1989]

Well i was going to keep out this thread as i knew it would go this way but, I'm Scottish foremost and British and proud to be British,why ?,because i say so, and that's my choice and there's no taking that away from me ever! and there's many like me up here that feels the same,so i wont be voting for an independent Scotland,why? loads of reasons some already mentioned,But i will state the obvious one to me, my grandfather and grandfathers father fought for the UK to be the UK in both wars(front line) and lost there life's in doing so unfortunately ,I knew this thread would end up with the usual,let them go shit ! We will be better without them crap!,Well i will tell you's now it's not going to happen it's all hype, so don't get your self's worked up about it,Will you let me into England if it does ? would i be allowed ?....lol..oops the EU...they maybe allow it anyway.

You need to go and do some reading mate.

Everything you've mention has been covered before, IOM for example and NI/I do no have any borders and as a EU citizen and a British citizen no one can remove you from this - therefore you wont be banned from England.

Your right to be proud of being British, i am in some respects - however politically, its not a fair system - and that's all im after.

 

[MFCGMFC]

for all the guys shouting about whither we can use the £ or not

if we use the £ then yes we can take a portion of the debt but if we cant take the £ then how can we take the debt?

stop MP's expenses, stop international aid to the likes of india who have just put a man in space with our money!

there is over £12bn in one sentence that could service the debt

The Financial Times produced an article about how much better off we would be, one of the richest nations in the world, What are we waiting for!

England knows how much we contribute and how it will struggle to service the debt without our gas, oil, wind and tidal energy, whisky and the various other exports we have and not one person can take that away from us

why didnt we put our oil money into a fund like norway?

what natural resource or major export does england have? their biggest seller is probably the footy!

why should we just continue to give our money away to governments we did not vote for?

why can't we be governed by a party we did vote for? A Party that the Scottish people actually want?

Since day 1 of the SNP they have always campaigned about Independence for Scotland and yet they have won terms in parliament, does that mean the scottish people want Independence?

 

[eon]

Well i was going to keep out this thread as i knew it would go this way but, I'm Scottish foremost and British and proud to be British,why ?,because i say so, and that's my choice and there's no taking that away from me ever! and there's many like me up here that feels the same,so i wont be voting for an independent Scotland,why? loads of reasons some already mentioned,But i will state the obvious one to me, my grandfather and grandfathers father fought for the UK to be the UK in both wars(front line) and lost there life's in doing so unfortunately ,I knew this thread would end up with the usual,let them go shit ! We will be better without them crap!,Well i will tell you's now it's not going to happen it's all hype, so don't get your self's worked up about it,Will you let me into England if it does ? would i be allowed ?....lol..oops the EU...they maybe allow it anyway.

M8 don't get me wrong i am with you on this. I don't want to see Scotland go for the very same reasons as you, who wants to be the generation that oversaw the breakup of the UK? But as i see it now Scotland are gone, but they/you will not get independence through some cleaver working of facts of figures, Scotland will gain independence on a wave nationalistic bravado. The date set for the referendum, the dropping of the age of voting and the dribble that is spread by salmond and his rag tag band of nationalists. I can imagine the school curriculum all based on Scottish history, braveheart will be on TV the night before the referendum and all them impressionable/gullible youngsters will be voting for independence. Bye Bye Scotland

Independence will provide fairer politicial representation in scotland.

Who knows weather it provide fairir representation in the EU - But lefts face it the UK does not have that much influence over the EU anyway. Look at Cameron shouting about the new EU leader, no ones taking any notice.

And you want to gain independence to join that very same union that don't listen to the people of Europe, Mr Juncker wants more integration and will demand the same from an independent Scotland, so much for independence ay?

Sucessful union? 1.5T pound of debt? I suppose its been sucessful for the UK with all the money from scotland its received aye, but political fair? Nah.

Please don't forget who left us with that 1.5T debt, a Scottish majority led Liebour party. Just as you moan about the conservatives we have to put up with the Liebour party in power who never fail to make a complete ****ing mess of everything. Do you see us spitting our dummy out when they get in power and calling for Scotland to leave because we don't want Liebour in again.

People who want indpendance i.e. my self do not hate the english, welsh or the NI.

I hate that SOME people have been brain washed into beleving scotland costs the rUK money by the media - Simple not true.

More importantly, I do not believe we have a fail democracy as part of the Union, Our vote is useless in comparison to the rest of the UK's - Wish is also why the'll be no big shift to the right either. If you look back on past elections around 90% of them where decided without a Scottish vote - English choose the goverment for it, and on multiple occasion that government was the tories and one tatcher!

People who want independence like your self, do hate the English and i HATE that alot of the youth in Scotland have been brain washed with bullshit about the English coming from the nationalists like yourself. A prime example is question time, there was one on about 6 months ago from Scotland and it had George Galloway in the audience. I cant stand the twat but fair play to him on this one. There was a young lad in the audience and they were taking about independence and this lad come out and said isnt it true that all Scots get beat up and abused by the English when they travel to England!!!!!!!

Like in say cant stand the twat but he put this kid straight being Scottish himself, the point is that's the attitude in Scotland atm and that's how independence will be won.

 

[buzzer]

shocking generalistaion!!

People who want independence like your self, do hate the English

Highly offensive and inaccurate, you make assumptions to suite yourself?

I can imagine the school curriculum all based on Scottish history, braveheart will be on TV the night before the referendum and all them impressionable/gullible youngsters will be voting for independence.

Really!!!, do we not have the brains up here???
bordering on racist IMHO..

People who want independence like your self, do hate the English and i HATE that alot of the youth in Scotland have been brain washed with bullshit about the English coming from the nationalists like yourself

forgive me, but your the one with the slogan "Invite the third world, become the third world!!!! " on your sign.

if that doesn't show a "nationalist" stance then i don't know what does

 

[eon]

shocking generalistaion!!



Highly offensive and inaccurate, you make assumptions to suite yourself?

What exactly do you want independence for? You are going to join the EU and sign away ALL your sovereign powers, boarder control and god knows what else just to get in. End up with less powers than you do now when the next round of EU policy comes into force. So where is this independence exactly? Sounds to me like you just want to get away from the English? Or the torys? but its the people of England who vote them in? So what does that say?

Really!!!, do we not have the brains up here???
bordering on racist IMHO..

Please, are you seriously going to throw that about? ffs

forgive me, but your the one with the slogan "Invite the third world, become the third world!!!! " on your sign.

if that doesn't show a "nationalist" stance then i don't know what does

I don't believe in an open boarder policy with the EU if that makes me a nationalist then so be it, but i am certainly not an English nationalist, a British nationalist maybe because the people of England dont see themselves or have been taught to be English we are British................

 

[buzzer]

What exactly do you want independence for? You are going to join the EU and sign away ALL your sovereign powers, boarder control and god knows what else just to get in. End up with less powers than you do now when the next round of EU policy comes into force. So where is this independence exactly? Sounds to me like you just want to get away from the English? Or the torys? but its the people of England who vote them in? So what does that say?

I never said i was voting for independance, but i don't see why anyone should have to explain which way they will vote and why?

Please, are you seriously going to throw that about? ffs

maybe you don't realise your being offensive, so i will leave it..

I don't believe in an open boarder policy with the EU if that makes me a nationalist then so be it, but i am certainly not an English nationalist, a British nationalist maybe because the people of England dont see themselves or have been taught to be English we are British................

so its ok to be a nationalist if the borders suit you..?