Winter's Tale

[Him Her]

Well, not so much of a tale right now, more the germ of an idea.

Apparently, energy reserves are the lowest they've been for a while and the grid is creaking a bit meaning the likelihood of power cuts this winter is higher than it has been for a while. Millions of Britons face winter power cuts | UK | News | Daily Express Whether the reported concerns are valid or not, winter power cuts are not unusual, especially in rural areas. Weather is a usual cause.

So, my thoughts turned to backup systems.

I can live without the lights and most of the appliances, at least for a few hours or so, but the heating goes off and that means temperatures can drop pretty sharpish. I reckon the average heating system represents an intermittent load of about 400W but the motors in the pumps (so I'm told) have relatively high start-up currents. This means that the cheap desktop UPS will probably not be able to cope. On the bright side, it's easy to seperate the heating system electrics from the rest of the house.

I have three basic options:

1 - buy a cheap UPS and see if it works (about £150)
2 - buy an inverter and battery (about £300)
3 - buy a petrol generator (Toolstation do one at about £110)

The generator option is probably the easiest even though I'd have to build a small enclosure to house it and the external electrics. On the other hand it runs for about 6 hours on just under 3 litres of petrol and could also power the broadband so I'd have heat and summat to do by candlelight!

Anyone ever tried something like this before?

 

[oneman]

You would probably be better off getting a couple of portable gas heaters rather then power your gas central heating.

 

[Spectre]

400W sounds a bit high for a heating pump HH, it might be in the specs somewhere if you have any to hand. You won't get much time out of a normal UPS.

I did get a 6kVA inverter with integrated batteries and separate battery cabinet donated to me but didn't get round to repairing or new batteries (industrial thing, couldn't find any schematics). My modem, router and a few PCs have a APC 3000VA which would give me a few hours internet.

Ideally, I'd like an auto-switching backup generator too. I was left without power for some time a while back after someone decided to liberate busbars from the local substation. I think I'd feel better with one that ran on liquid fuel rather than gas, I'm not a fan of having gas cylinders around.

Let me know what you come up with .

Again, I bet "competent" installer comes into this...

 

[MH]

Ideally you would need a pure sine wave inverter, otherwise the pumps may not spin. They will give if some heat though


(TT)

 

[Him Her]

400W sounds a bit high for a heating pump HH, it might be in the specs somewhere if you have any to hand. You won't get much time out of a normal UPS.

I did get a 6kVA inverter with integrated batteries and separate battery cabinet donated to me but didn't get round to repairing or new batteries (industrial thing, couldn't find any schematics). My modem, router and a few PCs have a APC 3000VA which would give me a few hours internet.

Ideally, I'd like an auto-switching backup generator too. I was left without power for some time a while back after someone decided to liberate busbars from the local substation. I think I'd feel better with one that ran on liquid fuel rather than gas, I'm not a fan of having gas cylinders around.

Let me know what you come up with .

Again, I bet "competent" installer comes into this...

Was working out 400w from the boiler, pump, programmer and two actuators. As far as 'competent installer' goes you'll be up to your ass in regs lol
@oneman - certainly portable heaters are the simplest option!
@MH - I'd found a pure sinewave inverter for around £240, I don't think the typical IT UPS will hack it

 

[Spectre]

Stick a clamp meter on it, or do boilers have plugs? I can't remember.

I'd like some power self-sufficiency ideas though.

 

[MH]

105w our boiler uses at full chat.


(TT)

 

[Him Her]

105w our boiler uses at full chat.


(TT)

I assume it's gas M8?

No gas here, ours is oil so I assume about half of the 200W rating is for the pump.

 

[Spectre]

You getting a touch of the ol' paranoia about energy shortages @Him Her?

Good to be a bit prepared.




Having said that, I was looking at suppliers of ration packs for lifeboats the other day...

 

[Him Her]

You getting a touch of the ol' paranoia about energy shortages @Him Her?

Good to be a bit prepared.




Having said that, I was looking at suppliers of ration packs for lifeboats the other day...

More a bit of preparation M8! The oil is delivered, coal and logs, have candles and lanterns plus a couple of portable gas hobs. Topped up the insulation, repaired the roof and had double-glazing a couple of years ago so I'm looking at other angles.

PV is a bit tricky due to roof shape but additional backup systems could be do-able.

 

[oneman]

More a bit of preparation M8! The oil is delivered, coal and logs, have candles and lanterns plus a couple of portable gas hobs. Topped up the insulation, repaired the roof and had double-glazing a couple of years ago so I'm looking at other angles.

PV is a bit tricky due to roof shape but additional backup systems could be do-able.

If you have the land space then have you looked at geo-thermal which is now available for domestic sized installations. I believe you need a shed sized box for the install but it works 24x7 and provides hot water for free. Of course it will still need leccy to power the pumps.

Ground source heat pumps - costs, grants and benefits of ground loops


As for PV, its possible to install on a frame sitting on the ground if you have space.

1000watt solar power station - YouTube

 

[MH]

How about a DC Motor connect it to your bike and make the missus pedal! Put it through your pure sine wave in inverter! Boom free electricity


(TT)

 

[Him Her]

I will be looking harder at the DIY PV option, I think the garage roof may be a go-er

 

[Spectre]

I will be looking harder at the DIY PV option, I think the garage roof may be a go-er

Will you need planning permission for that?

 

[Him Her]

Will you need planning permission for that?

It could vary around the UK but it's likely to be a formality in any case. More importantly, you'll need to advise Building Control and show the roof to be strong enough etc. There'll probably be some electrical regs to deal with too!

 

[oneman]

It could vary around the UK but it's likely to be a formality in any case. More importantly, you'll need to advise Building Control and show the roof to be strong enough etc. There'll probably be some electrical regs to deal with too!

Its unlikely you will need planning regs if it not directly connected to the grid, even if it is I am not sure you do. I do have an install certificate when mine where fitted but didn't have to apply to anyone. You will need to tell your insurance company though.

You won't be able to claim FIT if you DIY as I believe they need to be installed by a certified installer.

And there is a big push on green energy so its down to the council why they would refuse rather then you proving that why should be allowed. I've heard there is no issues installing PV on listed building even though you do get specialist panels which blend in with the roof rather then sitting on top of them.

BTW, the panels weight next to nothing, I had no problems picking them up. The biggest issue apparently is wind getting under the panel and lift it up. Also there have been stories of problems with snow. Not because snow weight on the panels but because the snow slides off and causes drifts on your roof.

 

[nara]

Next stop...nuclear bunker?

 

[trevortron]

Next stop...nuclear bunker?

Hmm, Mr. Fusion.... Back to the Future.... what year did they fast-forward to??

 

[Spectre]

Next stop...nuclear bunker?

Need one to repel the horde of theiving Roma gypsy.