Vauxhall immobiliser problems

[digidude]

fat lot of good their guy just was

'im not touching that m8, theres no timing belt on it, its a garage job, 2 grands worth thatll cost'

he also said the timing belt went due to contamination, not because of the stuff sprayed into the engine, but he did also say that you can use anything flammable to get the engine going in this way, even a can of lynx, but hairspray can blowback

one thing he said that confused me, i mentioned the fuel ECU as suggested and about resoldering it, he said that wont work as the dry joint causes low resistance, then when its resoldered it gives high resistance which makes the immobiliser come on and it wont start, as its a sealed unit it needs replacing @ cost of few hundred quid

now i dont know if its my (old) btech in microelectronics, or if its cos i wasnt listening properly after he said he wouldnt touch it, but im pretty sure that a dry joint causes high resistance, even an open circuit is possible, and that resoldering will 'fix' the dry joint problem, even if there are other problems present


according to the computer display that smironoff posted, vauxhall recommend that its changed 100k miles or 10 years, whatevers sooner, this is a 5 year old van thats done 42000 miles

ive also just checked the service manual, and that also says 10 years or 100k miles, so it cant really be neglecting to change it when its not even half way through its manufacturers recommended life span, i also have witnesses who were present while i was trying to turn it over, and who also came out due to the noise when the first guy sprayed the stuff in, so its not just my word that it was fine before that

and i still havent got any computer codes in case it is that pump ECU

 

[Dutcho]

There's a surprise, they are covering up for themselves. Fooken idiots. I think to try and claim from them is going to cost you a few pennies to say the least.

 

[wizbit77]

Why don't you just buy a cam belt and stick it on?
You can pick up haynes manuals for about £20 that give details on how to do it. And the cam belt will cost around £40 (i think). I've replaced them on past cars and I'm pretty crap at that kind of thing so it can't be that hard
If everyones telling you to replace the engine I don't see that "trying" a cam belt is going to do any damage. And throwing £60 at it is worth a punt.
RAC are going to give you the run around and make it awkward to say the least even if it was their fault. You could be stuck without a vehicle for ages.
Good luck

 

[digidude]

well after the guy had been, i replied to the original email id received

Hi

your patrol guy came out, but said he wouldnt work on the van as there is no timing belt on it. he said the belt went due to contamination, even though it was perfectly fine before 'easy start' was sprayed into the engine, and people who were originally helping me to get the van going before calling the RAC confirmed this, so im not really any wiser as to what the original fault with the van is or what the problems are with the van now, except for it was only starved of fuel before the original patrol man sprayed stuff into the air intake. as im looking for as much information possible this has also been posted here http://www.digitalworldz.co.uk/index.php?threads/178379/ from where the van originally wouldnt start

thanks for your time

and have also just had a reply

Dear ######

Thank you for the update.
I have spoken to the patrol who attended today and my colleague has spoken
to the patrol who attended tomorrow.
I will be discussing the details with a technical contact tomorrow and will
contact you as soon as possible.

Many thanks

i liked this bit my colleague has spoken to the patrol who attended tomorrow. roud: dont suppose he could get me some horses names of winners

ive even had so sign on today (24 mile round trip on a push bike) so if this dont get sorted, it looks like the end of 'digis dodgey dishes'

things with engines or tits, gonna do your head in, cost you a fortune and one day let you down. can guarantee it

 

[thebigman]

Download a copy of Autodata off the newsgroups or torrents 2.17 or2.18 is the latest thats cracked i think. That will tell you all you need to know regards changing the belt. If the engine turns ok by hand with a new belt on and there is no damage inside the rocker cover to the valves or cam followers its probarbly worth taking a punt and seeing if it will start.

The Easy start if as i suspect was used excessivlly will cause detonation basically firing at the incorrect time which can damage the belt.

thebigman

 

[Rs2k_Rider]

I think the only way your going to get it sorted though Rent A Coont... Is to get a independant inspection of the belt done and get the belt sent to the manufacturer mate to get it examined, they will tell you exactly why it failed... and if my suspicions are right then it will be from stress... Engine detonated at the wrong point on the piston stoke... forceing it back down snatching the belt back snapping it..

Dont give up though mate, they have caused damage to your vehicle... end of. Dont take none of this "it was contaminated" cr@p.. because its just that.. cr@p !
Would have to be some hell of a coincidence that the belt goes at the exact same time the guy sprays stuff into the engine... and as for hairspray..and lynx... hairspray especially..! Im sure the engine would love all the extra chemicals in the product.. do the valve seats a world of good that will.... What a noggin..!

I also suggest trading standards mate

I aint just spouting crad btw... did level 3 nvq in vehicle repair/mechanics...

Where abouts are ya mate ?

 

[thebigman]

Hairspray can blowback thats a classic lol, He sounds like a right clown. What did he say had contaminated the belt?
Can you see any evidencie of contamination like oil or antifreeze on the belt?

thebigman

 

[digirig]

Like I said before, the rac man broke it, and he knows he did, try looking here:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/
A good site for legal stuff

 

[Dutcho]

Digi dig your heel's in they are having a laugh. Trading standards would be a good start as well as it seem's they employ monkey's now in the RAC, please I cancelled mine and went with green flag.

Contamination on the belt my hairy ass.

Mate if I could get the time off I'd pack up me tool's and drive down. You'd have to do they graft like coz me back ani't what it used to be.

 

[digidude]

smirnoff, is this the soldering you was talking about then m8?

http://www.forum-auto.com/pole-technique/section12/sujet408636-35.htm

 

[digidude]

the RAC have now said its not negligence on their part and something else caused the belt to fail, even though the girl on the phone did say its just unlucky that it chose to fail at the exact time the key was turned after this 'easy start' stuff was sprayed into the engine

 

[Dutcho]

Well what else would they say, foooken ******s

 

[digirig]

Go to that web site I posted, they will advise you, the rac ain't going to say it's our fault here's £3k get a new engine, it's up to you.

 

[Joe1989]

How u getting on mate?

 

[digidude]

getting nowhere fast, but there have been a few more posts on the RAC forum about this easy start spray, and one of the posters has dropped the RAC right in the shit with his post, ive attached me reply below


Quote:

Originally Posted by Hometune
The management light would indicate cam and crank sensors out of synchronisation when next turned over. Just an idle thought.

As i had originally asked for the patrol guy to connect up his computer BEFORE he had even looked at anything, then wouldnt this fault have shown on his laptop, and this armed with this information he could have said thats why its not starting and to get it to a garage, instead of ignoring my request to see if any error codes showed up, and in my view diving straight in and causing the damage by forcing the engine to fire up by using this spray?

another thing you mentioned is

Originally Posted by Hometune
1. do not use heater plugs if fitted.
2. spray into air intake while engine is being turned.
3. hold close to air intake and depress valve fully for 1-2 seconds.

1. dont all diesels have heater plugs? ive always waited for the orange plug light to go out on the dash before turning the engine over.
2. the patrol guy asked me to turn the engine over, it didnt start, he then took off the air pipe, sprayed the aerosol into the pipe, then asked me to turn it over again, so it was not being used while the engine was being turned over.
3. this was sprayed for a good 6-7 seconds. i asked the lady who i spoke to on the phone if there is an amount of this stuff that has to be used as this guy gave it a good spray, her answer was that the patrol use the stuff according to their experience and at their discretion

so in light of those 3 points alone, as well as me asking for the computer to be connected forst, and the possibility of there being something out of line that sensors may also have shown on the computer, i now feel even more strongly that the patrol made a bad situation very bad and will start further enquries as to the liability of the RAC

 

[thebigman]

He is correct if the belt was already broken there would have been a fault code usually indicating a cam sensor fault somtimes crank sensor or both.

Basic procedure should have been to confirm the belt was ok before trying to crank it anyway.

Easy start is highly flamable much more than diesel 6-7 seconds is excessive.

you're never going to get them to admit they were wrong if you are going to get anywhere you will have to get legal with them or the will just fob you off and not take you seriously. It is wether or not you want the hassle?

have you tried a timing belt on the van yet?


thebigman

 

[Kris]

As said, cam sensor would have reported a fault and should bring up the management light.


Judging by what people have said about Easy Start, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the stuff that snapped the belt. From what I've seen from the posts here made about it, it gives the engine quite a hard kick to start.

RAC guy sounds like he's talking a load of shite too. A dry joint is just a bad connection and you were probably getting more or less an open circuit or intermittent contact. As for £3k to fix you car, he doesn't know the damage, if there even is any (I know of people that have got away with no damage with cam belt failures - even on old engines - my grandfather for one), by the sound of it. I'd put money on being able to get it repaired for way less than 3k too if there is damage.

 

[fes_786]

i have used easy start on engines that have been sitting around for a year or more.....

but i have always sprayed while cranking and it only takes 1 sec spray to start up.

looks like u should take them to court over matter

i would get in touch with solicitor

 

[Deleted member 6259]

Hope you get this sorted matey and dont let the dIcks off with this take it all the way.Its a damm same it wasnt pertrol im currently breaking a crash damaged 54 plate astra with a 40 k 1.6 petrol lump in .

 

[digidude]

following a few more posts on the RAC forum, i today received this email

Dear ######

Further to our previous correspondence, RAC are happy to consider your
concerns if you are able to provide a garage report detailing the possible
cause of the damage and a repair estimate. Our fax number is ###########.
Without this information, I regret to advise that RAC are not be able to
contribute any further to this matter.

Many thanks

and as its only polite to reply

Hi #####,

The van is booked into a garage for investigation, the garage however, has assured me that the computer will be connected before the bonnet is even opened, which is what i requested both of the patrols to do as i had a rough idea what the original fault was, which from further investigation is a very common fault with engines with this ECU unit, so common that they can be purchased off ebay for a DIY replacement repair. Your own words during our very first conversation were that 'it sounds like a bad situation may have been made worse'. Before i even knew what easy start was, i had explained to you how it was used by the patrol, then over a week later the actual instructions for use were posted on the RAC forums, which were not followed in the actual use of the product, not even closley. One of your own patrols (Haggis@home i believe) stated that the first port of call should be connect the computer, then check the belt, depending on the response of the ECU and fault codes when the computer reads any stored codes, and act upon this information accordingly.

I don't want to seem to be the customer from hell, i spent 6 years as a senior engineer for one of the biggest companies in the UK public sector, traveling around sorting out other engineers mistakes and apologising profusely on behalf of the company. I also know that people do specialise in their field of expertise, which your patrolmen (and women?) do, and that faults may not always be what they seem, on one job i went along with instinct and cost the company in excess of 75k, as well as evacuating a whole street and closing one of the main roads through the heart of wales for a morning in the process, mistakes can and do happen.

Once i have the error codes from the vans ECU, would you like me to get them directly to you before instructing the garage to carry out any further work? or instruct the garage to carry on stripping down the engine?

Thanks for your time