unenforceable credit agreements

[emarald]

An even cleverer banker would take your settlement offer

I didn't originally raise the fraud question, but will answer as I've see it.

As I understand it fraud is very loosely defined as theft by deception. In this case the 'fraud' would occur if you charged items to the card with no intention of clearing the debt Wrong, I just read the small print,your saying it's ok for them to have small print and use when they want to use it but not meby using the same action you took against Lloyds (although reading between the lines it appears to at least be partly Lloyds fault that it got that far?).

You've stated this action is only possible on cards issued before the date you've stated and is not your intention but a by product of the wording of the (unenforcable) credit agreement you signed. So proving the intent of fraud Again wrong intent I intended to pay until I read the small printwould be difficult at best if you have made previous payments.

You do need to be careful though, whilst you've said this doesn't go on your credit history you may find yourself blacklistedWrong again if I was to lend you £500 with no legal agreement and you did not pay me back could I register a default against you ???? NO internally for Lloyds for the extension of credit, and a future refusal would effect your credit rating.

Now the next time you copy a game and put it on a chipped machine for yourself and others or watch your cable TV free ask yourself am I committing fraud.
If you would like to put it to the test I will walk into a police station armed with only the consumer credit act and tell a detective what I a doing, If you would walk in at the same time and tell them your stealing cable TV and copyright games for game machines, lets see who get nicked

 

[chronoman]

i think this is brilliant and anyone who can get out of paying cash to the corporate tossers who control this planet the better.
Who gives a toss about morals if it saves you a few grand without breaking the law,Well done |Emerald.
I will be looking at this when i get home

 

[tlogic]

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)
PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE
CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations
(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?
In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?
When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Pescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit
A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments
A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-
(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest
A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement
D Credit limit
This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.
--------------------------

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier
Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
And there is no advance payment
A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement
A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.
Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

Hope this helps

Can I use this to remove a default of my credit file, when I was a student (post 2007) i went overboard with my natwest credit card and missed a few payments here and there and the bastard defaulted me even though i paid the debt back , I recaimed all of my bank charges from them, but the default is still showing on my credit file even though I have a credit score of 900.

Good on you I say if you managed to save £11k coz the banks are bastards they take money of you left right and centre.

 

[Rodbouy]

The thread has ended, Go in peace

 

[gasman]

Let He who be without sin cast the first stone ....27 pages of hypocrisy (by some) followed the OPs post

Well done to the OP treat others as they would treat yourself (screw em for every penny)

 

[emarald]

Anyone contemplating this is in essence commiting financial suicide and must be foolish to think your details wont be passed onto other financial companies.

Without a credit agreement, the default registered with a CRA is unlawful under s85(1)(a) (and s78(6)(a) - which says exactly the same thing).

Without a crdit agreement, there cannot be a default, therefore the marker on the credit file would be unlawful.

If they were foolish enough to do that you can request a court to order its removal under s14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 and you could request compensation under s13

 

[sargie]

Who was it ruled that it was unlawful to make charges of £35 for being overdrawn or going over your agreed limit?

...Correct it was the High Court.

It's just so happens that the same court says if a bank lends you money and they don't have a properly executed credit agreement to confirm their right to receive repayment then they can't claim the money back.

in other words it's the law.

simples... the law is the law.

It was the oft actualy.

 

[Rodbouy]

It was the oft actualy.

Did the oft not have to go to court for a court ruling ?

 

[v14]

It was the oft actualy.

High Court rules in favour of OFT in bank charges case

 

[phawk754]

fair play to emarald ,i would do the samthing if i know how ,,time for some reading

 

[crackerchalk]

Hi all
I thought id give this a go you never know
So went to the bank where the agreement was signed
And handed the letter to em on 3rd Aug
Got aknowledgement on 12th Aug for receipt
went in with 2nd letter on 19th Aug(there were the dates on the letters)
On 22nd recieved a letter for em dated 21st Aug
In gist they said
Regulation 3(2) of the CC(cancellation notice and copies of docs)
Regulation 1983 allows that certain items maybe omitted
from such copies, including the signiture box and sig
Therefore they dont have to send the original
They then go on to claim
Regulation 7 also requires us to provide a copy of the agreement,
as varied,where there is a power to vary the agreement
Which they claim my card had
Last line of letter says
In addition to this, plz find enclosed
a signed statement of account validating any debt outstanding
Now for the best bit what they sent me
A credit card request form
All that is filled in is my name, DOB, address
None of which is my handwriting
No bank details, no employment details and no sig
Theres not even a date on it
2 photocopies of a booklet entitalled Credit card agreement terms
They didnt even enlarge it so it could be read
Of and of cause no statement
Guess ill just have to wait a while now
Oh btw card is at least 5 years old

 

[sargie]

Hi all
I thought id give this a go you never know
So went to the bank where the agreement was signed
And handed the letter to em on 3rd Aug
Got aknowledgement on 12th Aug for receipt
went in with 2nd letter on 19th Aug(there were the dates on the letters)
On 22nd recieved a letter for em dated 21st Aug
In gist they said
Regulation 3(2) of the CC(cancellation notice and copies of docs)
Regulation 1983 allows that certain items maybe omitted
from such copies, including the signiture box and sig
Therefore they dont have to send the original
They then go on to claim
Regulation 7 also requires us to provide a copy of the agreement,
as varied,where there is a power to vary the agreement
Which they claim my card had
Last line of letter says
In addition to this, plz find enclosed
a signed statement of account validating any debt outstanding
Now for the best bit what they sent me
A credit card request form
All that is filled in is my name, DOB, address
None of which is my handwriting
No bank details, no employment details and no sig
Theres not even a date on it
2 photocopies of a booklet entitalled Credit card agreement terms
They didnt even enlarge it so it could be read
Of and of cause no statement
Guess ill just have to wait a while now
Oh btw card is at least 5 years old

Sounds like you have a case then oh btw why do you post in short lines?

 

[crackerchalk]

Sounds like you have a case then oh btw why do you post in short lines?

Never thought it would bother people
Its normally cos i hate punctuation
Also saves me having to scroll across the page

Oh i missed out a bit in that long post above
They refused the £1 coin i offered so it was free
Now im off to do the better halves with Lloyds

 

[sargie]

Never thought it would bother people
Its normally cos i hate punctuation
Also saves me having to scroll across the page

Oh i missed out a bit in that long post above
They refused the £1 coin i offered so it was free
Now im off to do the better halves with Lloyds

It's not so much as that it bothers me i just find it difficult to read with my eyes going left to right real quick i'm shite with pucntuation,grammar m8 but ill still post in full lines lol.

Do you have a tiny monitor then or mobile laptop or somin? my monitor is 22" and i dont need to scroll across perhaps thats why it looks wierd on my screen but not yours?

 

[emarald]

In court tomorrow against a DCA called Cabot they will lose and I willl be awarded costs as it is an unenforceable credit agreement, only in the UK can you owe money get it wiped off and then be paid for doing so, Lloyds TSB and Citicard both gave up without a fight, so tomorrow will be the end for me and goodbye to a total of around £24,000, some will be pleased to know that my American Express paperwork was in order so will have to pay that one, can't win them all.
Good luck to all the other doing this if you get stuck you know where to come

 

[emarald]

Won,won,won,won another £6500 wiped off

 

[v14]

Won,won,won,won another £6500 wiped off

:banana:

now shut the **** up.

 

[jaffa]

Won,won,won,won another £6500 wiped off

Was it ever in doubt. Well done, you found a loop hole and are benefitting from it.

 

[Joe1989]

Won,won,won,won another £6500 wiped off

Carma will come and bite you on the arse serverly one day. :Cheers:

 

[jaffa]

Carma will come and bite you on the arse serverly one day. :Cheers:

I am sure with £6500 wiped off his debt he wil be able to afford some Savlon........roud: