The euro is going up in smoke - and there's no fire brigade to stop it

Pete_London

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From the start, monetary union was a political conceit for which many Europeans are about to pay a devastating economic cost.
It’s not just the markets that have lost faith in the euro; previously compliant electorates are also close to breaking point

It might have been a statement of the blindingly obvious, but Mario Draghi’s warning yesterday that the eurozone as it stands is unsustainable, and that Europe’s leaders must clarify their vision for the euro quickly if the single currency is to survive, was no less startling for it.

Every man and his dog have been saying the same thing for the past two years now, and some since long before, yet so far it’s not made a bit of difference. Now that the president of the European Central Bank, no less, has also hit the panic button, will policymakers finally sit up and listen?

Don’t hold your breath. As the ever worsening banking crisis in Spain demonstrates, it may be too late. It’s not just the markets that have lost faith in the euro; previously compliant electorates are also close to breaking point. The die may already have been cast.
No one can tell you exactly how the euro will end, though many, including yours truly, have tried. What we do know is that if there are answers, they lie in German hands. It won’t be Spain, Italy or even France, still less tiny little Greece and Ireland, who ultimately determine the single currency’s fate, but central Europe’s beating economic and political heartlands.
At the Camp David summit last month, Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, was left in no doubt about the weight of responsibility that rested on her shoulders. If the euro fails, she was told by those present, it will be Germany’s fault. For the third time in a century, that nation stands accused of blowing up Europe. To stop this catastrophe in the making, Germany must give up on incremental shilly-shallying and act boldly now.

Actually, the parallel with the two great wars is a ridiculous one, as there is plainly a world of a difference between the acts of aggression that sparked the mass slaughters of the last century, and refusing to support with taxpayer euros a political and economic endeavour that was flawed from the start.

The German position is, in many respects, understandable and correct. To be panicked into a federal Europe for which there is virtually no popular support is not obviously a sustainable solution, never mind the open-ended liability it would impose on German taxpayers. Much of the European periphery, where restrictive labour laws and other semi-corrupt practices are still rife, in any case desperately needs the structural reform Germany insists on. And though it is true that austerity is proving counter-productive, what do its opponents suggest? That Spain and Ireland build even more houses, redundant regional airports, motorways, and spanking new municipal facilities? This was the kind of stuff that got the banking system into trouble in the first place. Just how much more construction can a country sensibly take?

There are, of course, still ways in which the European authorities could douse the flames without going the whole hog of political union. One of the problems with the single currency, as Paul De Grauwe of the London School of Economics has pointed out, is that much of the infrastructure needed to sustain it is missing. He puts it like this: Europeans built a town without a fire brigade, in effect, because they convinced themselves that the fire code they were establishing was so brilliant it would prevent there ever being a fire. Establishing a full-blown federal banking system, with a single regulator, resolution regime and bail-out mechanism, would have largely prevented the kind of blaze going on in Spain, where mass capital flight into zero-return German bonds is threatening complete financial and economic collapse.

Too late, the European Commission has put use of European bailout money for direct recapitalisation of national banks back on the table, but it’s going to take years before anything happens. By the time it does, Spain will have sunk beneath the waves. As it is, the Spanish government is reduced to the logical absurdity of asking domestic banks to lend it the money with which to bail them out.
Again too late, Mrs Merkel has indicated that she might be open to the idea of a “European Redemption Pact”, a kind of Eurobond lite, which has some of the attributes of a fully fledged Eurobond but is sufficiently capped to satisfy German objections. Even if eventually agreed, however, that notion is still years away from providing an effective form of debt relief. Or maybe the European Central Bank can be persuaded to forget legal constraints, and monetise sovereign debt without limit? Again, Germany says no, because rightly, only elected politicians can agree such massive monetary transfers.
Concern about sovereignty is making establishment of the necessary fire brigade a virtually impossible challenge. You’d think, given the seriousness of the situation and the now very real prospect of calamitous break-up, that it would concentrate minds into making the necessary compromises. Yet, with record low unemployment and a still growing economy, Germany has adopted an “I’m all right, Jack, not our problem” attitude. Its focus is on enacting the austerity of the fiscal compact, which – oddly, given the evidence to date – it still thinks will eventually work.

This seems deeply unlikely. Nor would the intolerable scourge of seemingly permanent depression in the south be addressed by any of the technical remedies listed above. They might make the euro function a bit better, but they wouldn’t correct lost competitiveness and crushing joblessness in the Mediterranean states.
If Germany doesn’t have answers, that’s perhaps because there are none. From the start, monetary union was a political conceit for which many Europeans are about to pay a devastating economic cost.


Source:The euro is going up in smoke - and there's no fire brigade to stop it - Telegraph


Looks like Nigel farage was right about the bank run in spain
 
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The UK will remain in this EU experiment (without the Euro) unless something drastic happens. The MEP gravy train is too tempting for LibLabCon politicians and for some reason the UK electorate likes to vote Labour. Voting UKIP in the 2015 general election might have the undesired effect of putting Labour back in because it might take votes away from the Torys and it's unlikely that UKIP will make it on their own.

Roll on the collapse of the EU, we've spent too long waiting for a referendum on it anyway.
 
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Sending in the bank auditors now after this new bail out for spain.

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This happened in greece today

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A single currency requires a single fiscal policy which, in turn, requires a common political policy. The Euro was doomed at birth.
 
I dont know too much about this financial guff but i do find it interesting, someone will be making money out of it!
 
Nothing unusual about that, the poor pay and the rich get richer along with the politicians.

The poor pay several times over because the fall-out is covered by extra lending from various reserve banks. Bond yields go down shafting pension annuities and public services get cut to enable the national debt to be serviced. Bankers order more champagne...
 
Nothing unusual about that, the poor pay and the rich get richer along with the politicians.

I think the bankers should be held accountable for this ponzi scheme, it's about time the people took back power from these corrupt tossers.
 
Apparently from what I was told this who thing with Greece, financial meltdown etc... Is what happened to Germany and from what I was told triggered World War 2. Dunno how true it is, but would imagine that wasn't just the only cause.
 
Not quite the same thing. After WWI Germany had much of its industry neutered by border changes. The rampant inflation that you refer to was largely fixed by Hitler prior to the war but expansion was next on his list (or revenge, maybe). Unemployment in Germany was largely non-existent by around 1936.

Greece, on the other hand, took the opportunity to get access to cheap loans through membership of the EU relying on the fact that inflation and growth erodes debt. They used the money to pay for things they wouldn't otherwise have been able to afford - like a top-heavy public sector and lax taxation system. Provided inflation and growth keep on moving forward it all works but the credit crunch put paid to that - money got more expensive and growth flattened. Bad news if spending is above GDP.
 
Unemployment in Germany was largely non-existent by around 1936.
People might have been in work back then, around then the world population was no more then 2.5 Billion, now today where just over 7 billion people, that's a hell of a lot of people to employee, especially when a lot of machines do it all for us now days.

This whole euro thing might be going up in smoke, but if Greece didn't borrow the money in the first place, surly they would of went into meltdown along time ago if they wasn't allowed to borrow money they can't pay back in the first place, surly by lending Greece the money there were just postponing judgment day so to speak?
 
Two points. Germany didn't NEED to go to war having largely fixed their inflation and unemployment issues before the war started.

It would have been prudent for Greece NOT to have borrowed to fund a lifestyle they couldn't afford but they wanted the benefits and the FIAT (Government legislated) economic system of the Western world encourages debt because growth erodes it. When there is no growth the model goes t*ts up.

Multiple recessions only demonstrate that. However, previous recessions have seen serious pain throughout all walks of life. This may be the first where the population at large get the pain and the upper levels see little or no change. You can thank QE (Quantitative Easing) for that.

With finite resources continual growth is not sustainable - all you do is move the wealth around. Currently that lies with BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China). That will change again as another nation (or group of nations) comes to the fore.

Unless some bright spark comes along and changes it.....erm, not much chance of that methinks!
 
It would have been prudent for Greece NOT to have borrowed to fund a lifestyle they couldn't afford but they wanted the benefits and the FIAT (Government legislated) economic system of the Western world encourages debt because growth erodes it. When there is no growth the model goes t*ts up.

This sums up quite a few countries (including us to an extent) and puts it in simple terms!

Spain is a little different in the sense they ****ed it all on building property that no one wants, and now they have the problem that no one will buy either so they have hundreds of thousands of property empty, half built, people wanting out CONFIDENCE IS LOW!!!

All because there banks borrowed money to every fecker to build!

No one is paying back there mortgages (defaulting) so the banks are being left with property that is dropping in price like flies! (america anyone lol)

I personally am just waiting to see what happens if/when greece drops out of the euro, as confidence in the euro will surely be on its way out, and I can see Spain and Italy following suit, in fact I think before the year ends I believe Italy will ask for a bailout too.

And while Spain are trying to save face on it being a bailout for the banks only, this is just covering it up, their government said on the 28th of may they would not need a bailout, and on saturday they have asked for 100 billion (but they do not even know if its enough ffs).

So its over to Athens for the 17th lol... then its back to Madrid for the auditors a week later to give is the real bailout figure lol... you could not make this up!

All I can say to anyone looking to buy a holiday home, hold on for a few weeks to a month.

Also if anyone thinks so fecking what this does not have nothing to do with us, think again it will have massive rippling effect on all of the world.

Except the 1% mega rich who will certainly profit either way ;)

Mick
 
Although I 'liked' the previous post, 'liked' didn't really cover it...

...let's just say I thought it was only me bulk-ordering diocalm ;)
 
I must be looking at this wrong.
As far as I can see the euro is going along to plan very nicely.
After the failed European tour by Germany 1939 to 1945 they have change tactics and are now going for financial control of Europe.
It looks pretty much ontrack to me.
They don't care who gets hurt along the way so long as they get the control in the end.
Time will tell if i'm right or not.
 
Make the EU go away by voting UKIP.

I think there will be a referendum before 2015, but, it won't be to leave the EU. It will be some weaseling by Scameron to make it sound good but it will still involve being some way attached and controlled by some unelected Eurocrat.
 
Apparently from what I was told this who thing with Greece, financial meltdown etc... Is what happened to Germany and from what I was told triggered World War 2. Dunno how true it is, but would imagine that wasn't just the only cause.

Hypothetically:
How ironic would it be if Greece attacked the Germans over there pushy austerity measures.
Lmao with the submarines that the Germans sold them which helped put the Greeks into the problem they are in now.

the Greeks spent 16 billion (what is known) on buying old technology from the yanks and the Germans.

And the yanks and the Germans are the ones Pushing Greece on austerity lol.

F*** you pay me... Goodfellas classic line lol

Mick
 
I must be looking at this wrong.
As far as I can see the euro is going along to plan very nicely.
After the failed European tour by Germany 1939 to 1945 they have change tactics and are now going for financial control of Europe.
It looks pretty much ontrack to me.
They don't care who gets hurt along the way so long as they get the control in the end.
Time will tell if i'm right or not.

It needs a central bank who control the rates and regulations centrally with local taxes. The current model was a failure from the beginning. The European countries need to become states of Germany and make Ze German language compulsory.

The US/Canada model works.


Sent from my mobile device using fingers and thumbs!
 
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