The demise of the dollar

Munkey

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In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading

By Robert Fisk The Independent

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

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In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."

This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.

The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.

Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.

Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.

The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."

Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.

The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.

"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.
 
isn't this what sadam hussain was planning before he was invaded ........... this could be the start of WW3
 
Dialogue has broken down with Iran señor so war is a possibility although I doubt it happens also. The pieces we are picking up after the recent financial crisis are post war like though.

This is a huge story and one that many news agencies are not running with although it's significance will likely impact us all in the coming years. Financially we are ruined, we just don't seem to be realising it just yet. Maybe interest rates will have to rise before ordinary people start taking an interest in politics again.

The banks have raped this country of it's wealth and the government were party to that theft, ordinary people were either too stupid or unconcerned to protest but they will feel the pain for sure and deservedly so. The pound will sink quicker than the dollar and we'll be left we a Zimbabwe style currency.
 
Dialogue has broken down with Iran señor so war is a possibility although I doubt it happens also. The pieces we are picking up after the recent financial crisis are post war like though.

This is a huge story and one that many news agencies are not running with although it's significance will likely impact us all in the coming years. Financially we are ruined, we just don't seem to be realising it just yet. Maybe interest rates will have to rise before ordinary people start taking an interest in politics again.

The banks have raped this country of it's wealth and the government were party to that theft, ordinary people were either too stupid or unconcerned to protest but they will feel the pain for sure and deservedly so. The pound will sink quicker than the dollar and we'll be left we a Zimbabwe style currency.


You sound worried!

Will you be kicked out of your Palace?

;)

Personally, I could not give a ****.
 
This could get very ugly and i don't know what to make of it!
One half of me is saying its about bloody time we took some power off the Yanks but the other half is scared of what will happen if we do.
 
You sound worried!

Will you be kicked out of your Palace?

;)

Personally, I could not give a ****.

The palace is safe but the servants may lose their quarters, oh hard times are coming.

You're either filthy rich or stinking poor not to care, I just don't get it why people don't care.
 
I just don't get it why people don't care.
It's not that people don't care, it's that the gravity of the situation simply hasn't been impressed upon them. We live in a world where it's become disturbingly common to merely file for personal bankruptcy, when living beyond your means is no longer viable, but I don't think people understand the consequences of a country going bankrupt. It's not the sort of problem we can simply try and bomb our way out of.

That's not to say the situation can't be salvaged. It's not like the only possible outcome is a doomsday scenario. Hysterical over-reaction is as illogical as apathy. This is a problem that requires a steady hand, not a lazy, or indeed a panicky fidgeting one.
 
I care.

Whatever the anti US idiots say, America is the most progressive country in the world. The very fact that it has been the leading superpower in the 20th century has brought massive intangible benefits to mankind, and concepts we all hold dear, such as: libertie, fraternity, egalitie.

Yes CIA this, and CIA that, but if we live in a world where the USA takes second place to China and states like Iran, we could be in for some shit as a sphere floating in space.

If you think Iraq & Afghanistan are bad, wait until a defanged USA has to watch whilst China retakes/takes land it decides its theirs, and Iran throws a few missiles into Israel.

Not to mention the fact that slowly but surely, Putin is recreating a culture of national pride in Russia that is very worrying.
 
A financial revolution with profound political implications

Robert Fisk: A financial revolution with profound political implications

Such large financial movements will have major political effects in the Middle East

Wednesday, 7 October 2009


The Independent

The plan to de-dollarise the oil market, discussed both in public and in secret for at least two years and widely denied yesterday by the usual suspects – Saudi Arabia being, as expected, the first among them – reflects a growing resentment in the Middle East, Europe and in China at America's decades-long political as well as economic world dominance.

Nowhere has this more symbolic importance than in the Middle East, where the United Arab Emirates alone holds $900bn (£566bn) of dollar reserves and where Saudi Arabia has been quietly co-ordinating its defence, armaments and oil policies with the Russians since 2007.
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This does not indicate a trade war with America – not yet – but Arab Gulf regimes have been growing increasingly restive at their economic as well as political dependence on Washington for many years. Of the $7.2 trillion in international reserves, $2.1trn is held by Arab countries – China holds about $2.3trn – and the nations interested in moving away from dollar-trading in oil are believed to hold over 80 per cent of international dollar reserves.

Saudi Arabia's denials of any such ambitions were regarded by Arab bankers as a normal part of Gulf politics. The Saudis, of course, managed to deny that Iraq had invaded Kuwait in 1990 – even when Saddam Hussein's legions stood along the Saudi frontier, until the US broadcast the news of Iraq's aggression to the world.

Saudi bankers are well aware that in nine years' time – the current timeframe for a transition away from the dollar in oil trading to Japanese and Chinese currencies, the euro, gold and a possible new Gulf currency – China will have doubled its national income to $10trn (assuming a growth rate of 7 per cent), at which point the US might hold no more than 20 per cent of the world's gross income.

Such massive financial movements, encouraged by the de-dollarisation of oil, will have enormous political effects in the Middle East, especially if economic superpower rivalry between America and China comes to dominate the Arab world. Will American economic support for Israel remain as loyal in nine years' time if China and the Arabs are setting the pace in global financial markets? Indeed – perhaps with this in mind – some Israeli financiers have been expressing interest over the past two years in non-dollar Arab bank investments. Whenever a change of this magnitude takes place over a number of years, it has to be commenced in secrecy.

Nor can it be denied that the very project to take oil trading away from the dollar market has deep political roots. The collapse of the Soviet Union has allowed the US to dominate the Middle East more than any other world region, and the Arabs – who can no longer contemplate an oil boycott of the kind they imposed on the West after the 1973 Middle East war – are still anxious to prove that they can flex their economic power to bring about change.

Saudi Arabia's pan-Arab offer to recognise Israel and its security in return for an Israeli withdrawal from occupied Arab land is not – according to the Saudis themselves – indefinite. If they are ignored or rebuffed, then they can search for other allies through new financial institutions to force a new Middle East peace. China will be happy to help.
 
It's not the sort of problem we can simply try and bomb our way out of.

The record deficits and reckless printing of money with no hope of growth in the mid to long term, we may as well be at war according to the balance sheets. At least with post war you have guaranteed growth. Personally I don't think the situation is salvageable, we're likely to see a double dip recession after the conservatives come in.


Whatever the anti US idiots say, America is the most progressive country in the world. The very fact that it has been the leading superpower in the 20th century has brought massive intangible benefits to mankind, and concepts we all hold dear, such as: libertie, fraternity, egalitie.

According to the recent financial mess the seven deadly sins seem more appropriate mozr.
 
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