MPs’ expenses: Shahid Malik resigns as Justice Minister over rental arrangements

[pipsqueaker]

So MPs do not work?

Ah k, we will play that childish game eh?

What are you talking about?
They haven't worked for the expenses.
They work for their salary.
Totally pointless post

 

[vangogh]

Can we trust these high profile accountants who know exactly what goes on....and keep things under wraps....yet manage to keep accounts balanced.
Even Credit crunch...they saw it comming...but lived for the moment.....
Media is doing a good job.....whatever goes on..cannot be secret anymore......

 

[ms2005]

Sorry for being thick m8 care to explain

The trident project costs us about £10bn of tax payers money every year.

I'm not condoning this expense thing, it winds me up, but in the great scheme of how public money is spent, this is nothing more than a few quid.

 

[IANB]

The trident project costs us about £10bn of tax payers money every year.

I'm not condoning this expense thing, it winds me up, but in the great scheme of how public money is spent, this is nothing more than a few quid.

Ah i see where your comming from now. But two wrongs dont make a right m8

 

[v14]

here's a thing.

I live and work in Scotland. What if I decide I to take a job in any other part of the country?
Would it be reasonable to expect my new employer to pay me an extra £20000 a year so I can buy or rent property closer to my new job whilst still keeping my current home? ..... Would it bollox!

So why is it different for MP's?
Oh wait,that's why... 'coz MP's make up rules.

And why are they allowed to buy a house with OUR dosh then keep the profit they make when they sell it? These bastards are ripping the pish right out of us at every opportunity.

Every job should have it's perks but ffs you need to know where to draw the line.

 

[mozr]

What are you talking about?
They haven't worked for the expenses.

Yes they have. Whether you like it or not some jobs come with a salary and expenses. If they did not work they would not have the job to claim the expenses. Therefore they get expenses in return for work. Ergo, your point is negated.

Now, I do not like the expenses they receive one bit. But, when you do the 'well I work for the money that I swindle out of the system' then try to use that to distinguish you from the MPs involved in this crisis, you are being disingenuous at best.

If you swindle the system, then you are akin to them. They are just much better at it than you.

(As already stated, I am just as bad, and follow this current hypocritical piped music to the river.)

Maybe we get the politicians we deserve as a species?

Totally pointless post

You seem to want to come after me for some reason. Do you work for Royal Mail?

 

[nara]

You seem to want to come after me for some reason. Do you work for Royal Mail?

Lol, I don't think he appreciates your sense of humour. :Laugh:

WRONG just shows.. thats one rule for the goverment one rule for the people of this country.

they can get away with it as they decide what tax paeres monies goes on..

mainly there expencees as well as the expence 0of his counytry WE live in abnd have right to..

if i was to subit my exppenses to the im sure they would say no..

but no what they are doing is fraud.,.

they are using our money to fund theri life.. and we as a country need to fight the goverment.. cause this its just the tip of the iceberge of what there doiong to our counnrty that we live in....

there meant to follow what we as a collective want and what we as fthe people of this country want..

but now we do what they tell us to do cause they are the true honest ppl that rule our country..

now i thought that the new world order ideas were bit compasant at times

but what they say makes sence.. we are being treteated as objects in the current socoicety of our coounytry that we live n.. heck animals (cats/dogs/birds) have more rights in this country then we do...

its about tim ethe people of our counytry made a stand and said , we have had ebnough and thoiis is our country, your rules dont apply.. we were pplaced on this ear th and we will live how we see fit.. not to the ruels of our courrepetd goverment

This is not a party political issue m8. All parties are at it and it's been going on a lot longer than the present administration has been in power. Feel free to rant about corrupt government, but it's not really appropriate here.

 

[Munkey]

No one on here as cheated the benefits system, declared a smaller profit on their taxes, paid a builder/plumber/electrician/window cleaner cash in hand, or got paid cash in hand themselves?

If yes, then you are a hypocrite about this (as am I).

If no, then you are a liar.

All my examples in some way reflect the size of the public purse. You (you!) have cheated the system too! (As have I).

There are two differences here: efficiency, and culpability.

One, MPs are much better than we are at defrauding the system. They themselves get to set the parameters which they work by, thus making the rules more favourable.

Two, If we are caught swindling our taxes, or cheating with benefits, then we are committing an offence. MPs more often than not, may express sorrow, and pay back any egregious claims they have made. This is wrong, but a symptom of what happens with 'expenses'.

The problem we have is that journalists have created this furore, even though they themselves (especially the BBC in this case, regarding public funds) are the some of the biggest expense whores on the planet!

Now, don't get me wrong. Some of the MPs here are despicable. They truly are fleecing the state, and feathering their own nest. They often come from a social bubble, and they actually believed that they are owed this living by the proles.

Any expenses system is open to abuse. They should pay MPs a wage for what they do (even if that means a 40-50% increase across the board), and deny them any (ANY!) expenses. Whether you are from Scotland, or Pall Mall, you get paid the same, and have to sort your own shit out. No second home allowances, no travel expenses. Tough!

Mozr I don't see the point that you are trying to make. No one here is a MP, no one here is put in a huge position of trust and one that involves being in charge of millions of people and millions of pounds(maybe nara). MP's have highly privileged jobs, they represent all different kinds of people from all walks of life, you make it out that they are akin to QC's representing petty criminals which clearly is not the case.

This isn't about cheating expenses, rather morality or the lack of it.

 

[reni]

Mozr I don't see the point that you are trying to make. No one here is a MP, no one here is put in a huge position of trust and one that involves being in charge of millions of people and millions of pounds(maybe nara). MP's have highly privileged jobs, they represent all different kinds of people from all walks of life, you make it out that they are akin to QC's representing petty criminals which clearly is not the case.

This isn't about cheating expenses, rather morality or the lack of it.

The Labour Party MP's (The Ones Involved) have betrayed their Roots and the People that elected and what the party stands for. Will It Change no. Why ? All Power Corrupts ..

 

[emarald]

You seem to want to come after me for some reason.?

Maybe he thinks you post a load of twaddle, I do

 

[pipsqueaker]

Yes they have. Whether you like it or not some jobs come with a salary and expenses. If they did not work they would not have the job to claim the expenses. Therefore they get expenses in return for work. Ergo, your point is negated.

An expense is something you pay for, which is necessary to carry out your work and as such the employer reimburses you.
It's not pay and there's not supposed to be no profit.

 

[v14]

This isn't about cheating expenses, rather morality or the lack of it.

Kind of.
For me it's more about MP's being in a position of self regulation and then being totally embarrassed when it comes out that the regulations they applied to themselves were a total abuse of power.

But yes, I suppose it comes down to morals.
As Mozr said earlier we've all diddled something at some time but these arrogant bastards are kicking the arse right out of it and were not talking a few hours overtime or a box of fookin pens either.

if it's us it's fraud.. if it's an MP it's an "oversight" or they've been "wrongly advised".

 

[nara]

Maybe he thinks you post a load of twaddle, I do

We all know that you post twaddle, but at least you've owned up to it.

Well done! :Clap:

 

[BIGGY007]

Bottom line is the criteria is not clear enough for claiming expenses, so the mp's attempted to use it to the maximum which they succedded for a long time.

Nothing illegal or wrong in my opinion has been done by the mp's. If you are looking to point a finger at some1 it should be the person who sets the criteria out.

As For Shahid malik i think he will get his post back as a justice minister and be cleared of the investigation. Bottom line is he is good at what he does thats why he got elected.

 

[emarald]

Bottom line is the criteria is not clear enough for claiming expenses, so the mp's attempted to use it to the maximum which they succedded for a long time.

Nothing illegal or wrong in my opinion has been done by the mp's. If you are looking to point a finger at some1 it should be the person who sets the criteria out.

As For Shahid malik i think he will get his post back as a justice minister and be cleared of the investigation. Bottom line is he is good at what he does thats why he got elected.

So claiming for a mortgage that did not exist, there was nothing wrong with that, it's the criteria not being clear enough

 

[mozr]

Mozr I don't see the point that you are trying to make. No one here is a MP, no one here is put in a huge position of trust and one that involves being in charge of millions of people and millions of pounds(maybe nara). MP's have highly privileged jobs, they represent all different kinds of people from all walks of life, you make it out that they are akin to QC's representing petty criminals which clearly is not the case.

This isn't about cheating expenses, rather morality or the lack of it.

I agree Munkey. It is about morality, and the fact that as humans we cannot be trusted to self regulate.

My point, to try and clarify, is there is a lot of pot calling the kettle black on this issue, that's all. People are screaming 'you are stealing our taxes!' whilst also doing the same thing on a smaller scale.

There is very little self-reflection on this matter.

As already said, I think self-regulation isn't going to work, MPs should be paid a wage, and that is it. They obviously cannot be trusted. But as Nara has said, this has always happened; it is a time honoured tradition. Read my sig!

An expense is something you pay for, which is necessary to carry out your work and as such the employer reimburses you.
It's not pay and there's not supposed to be no profit.

Hmm. I see what you have done there. You have moved a discussion from whether expenses are born from a direct correlation with work, which you disputed (implying that your fiddling was more honest because you had 'worked for it'), and which I disproved, to one regarding expenses and whether the MPs involved claims were justified.

Regarding the latter, we are not arguing. We are both in agreement that their claims were erroneous at best, outright immoral at worst, and certainly not in the spirit of the rules.

My point remains, those that denounce the evil MPs whilst also fiddling money out of the public purse have dirty hands also, if to a lesser degree I admit.

Again, I am just as bad. We all do it. It's just their cookie jar is bigger than ours, and is full of Hob Nobs, Penguins, Blue Ribands, and Jammie Dodgers whilst we put our hand in and pull out a stale old Aldi brand Ginger Nut.

 

[hoppy]

Bottom line is the criteria is not clear enough for claiming expenses, so the mp's attempted to use it to the maximum which they succedded for a long time.

Nothing illegal or wrong in my opinion has been done by the mp's. If you are looking to point a finger at some1 it should be the person who sets the criteria out.

As For Shahid malik i think he will get his post back as a justice minister and be cleared of the investigation. Bottom line is he is good at what he does thats why he got elected.

Totally wrong fella.
They are MPs who we put our trust in.
As other people have said, we might fiddle the odd mile or two in expenses or go home with a packet of printer paper but we dont start claiming for rent for property and all the other shameful things they have done.
They knew the rules, They just didnt give a shit...

 

[BIGGY007]

These are allegations, assumptions, that he was cliaimng this illegal rent when he wasant't really, nothing has been proven and in my opinion nothing will....

If by the unlikely chance he is found guilty then there will most likely have to be an investigation for every other mp that has ever been elected which i doubt will happen also.

It doesnt matter if u fiddle a little or a large amount fiddling is fiddling.....

 

[hoppy]

So you honestly believe that they have committed no crime and the system is at fault??

 

[nara]

So you honestly believe that they have committed no crime and the system is at fault??

I think most of them have just been taking advantage of the system. We don't like it, and it needs changing, but it's not criminal.

There are obviously a few who have been criminally fraudulent. These are the ones that we need to concentrate on.