DVB - PC Cards Just double checking...

[analpotato]

OK, I'm a bit of a moron when it comes to this stuff. I've done a fair bit of reading, but before I go a-spending, I thought I'd just check this stuff out with you guys first, make sure I've understood everything and get some clarification on the stuff that I'm not clear about.

My main box is on its last legs, so I'm building a sweet HTPC to replace it. Antec Fusion case, 500gigs of Samsung Spinpoint HD, Dual Core, 2.3 Intel Pentium on a Gigabyte microATX motherboard -- the brand one with the S33 chipset and the HDMI interface right there on the motherboard. I'm getting aroused just thinking about it.

But the critical issue when building a HTPC is where your telly is gonna come from. Initially, I was thinking about one of those Hauptage dual tuner digital jobs that just do the free-to-air stuff, and using VNC and ethernet to control my dBox. But it doesn't sound like an ideal solution to me. Sounds like a kludge.

Then, I wondered whether it was possible to just feed the output from the dbox into the computer somehow? Using coax, or maybe component video? Again, it sounds like a kludge.

Then, I came across this forum. Whoa!!! So if I'm getting this correctly, these DVB-C cards are like a mini-Dbox2 that goes on a slot in your PC, and you then use a cam -- same as the ones in the Dbox software images -- to decode those encoded channels? (This is my first question. Am I getting this right? As well as being dense, I'm also a bit of a long-winded bastard, so please bear with me a moment.)

OK, so assuming that I'm right about that, there are two routes for me to take. A DVB-C card with or without a CI-extension. These CI-extensions appear to be an interface for a card that holds the cams, should you not be emulating this function in software.

Here's my second question: Although there seems to be a lot of people claiming that a pure software cam solution works well for them, others insist that having a CI-extension and a card gives you a faster, more reliable picture and range of channels. Have I understood this correctly?

That being the case, I'd probably want to go that route, but it starts to then sound awfully complex. Now I'm going to need a card burner. A card, or possibly a bunch of cards? Software to program these cards, or at the very least, software to modify the pre-existing cams on those cards.

While I'm happy to learn that stuff, it would be nice to learn it while I'm actually watching telly. Is it possible to buy a card pre-programmed with a cam that would work with Virgin?

I'm gonna wrap this marathon up now, but before I do, I'd like to run my current purchasing decisions by you, just in case I'm messing up somewhere before I spend the dough. Please shout out if I've got something wrong:

There seems to be a consensus around the Technotrend Budget C-1500. For an additional £4, I could have the HD version of this card, but apparently the hardware is identical, so I might as well save the £4? Not sure why, but people seem to prefer the budget C-1500, to the Premium C-2300? Does anyone know why the cheaper one is preferred?

I'll also buy the CI-extension to go with it. As I said, I'll probably experiment with software at first, but if I can get better quality/response with a card-based cam, I'll wanna go that way.

Card programming seems complex at first. Mind you, I thought that about the Dbox once, but before long I was building my own images along with the best of them. OK, so they weren't *that* good, but they worked, and I got a lot of insight into how the process worked, what the machine was doing, etc.

OK, card stuff. There seems to be a lot of support for the Matrix Revolutions card here, and I've got an idea that some people have said it can be used without needing to be programmed? Is that right, or did I just make that up?

But the programmers do seem to be pretty cheap and cheerful. In the range of £9-30? Can anyone point me at a reliable one for what I'm looking to do here? And let me know what kind of cards I'd need to use with it?

Finally, hardware. Gonna go with dvbshop 24 for the hardware. Seems to be recommended by several here, and there's no need for the hell of dealing with the germans. Buying my Dbox was a nightmare. Over 6 weeks with no contacts, no emails, no responses, etc. And this was a guy who was recommended by many, but it was just as the whole Dbox thing blew up. However, where do I buy my programmer/card(s). (And do I need more than one?)

Sorry to be pounding your brains with so many questions. There's no need to answer them all, but if you can answer just a little bit of it, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks in advance.

 

[analpotato]

One other question

While I'm at it, does anyone know if they still make the Fire-dtv interfaces? Looking on their website, they only seem to be selling the satellite ones, and there's no sign of the cable ones now. I wonder if this means Richard Branson has leaned on the owners to stop selling in the UK?

 

[Ebro]

Question 1. Yes. I use a splitter, one end to my dreambox 600, the other to my pc with installed 1500. I use a standard software CAM to decrypyt my channels using MyTheather software. Not had needed to try hardware CI yet. I would hang off buying one until you are comfortable with your software and setup.

I don't know why people suggest the cheaper card, I'm just a sheep and went with the crowd.

I got mine from SatStore, next day delivery, but I am sure DVBShop can provide the same service.

 

[analpotato]

I don't know why people suggest the cheaper card, I'm just a sheep and went with the crowd.

There doesn't even seem to be any difference in price any more. But I don't think it's sheepish. If lots of people are all buying the same card, it's probably because it works and works well. If it sucks, you soon get complaints on these forums, saying exactly why it sucks.

FWIW, I've just found the answer to my FireDVB question. Apparently, they've shut up shop to pursue other interests. I guess that option is closed to me now. Somebody might want to update the hardware sticky to reflect this?

http://firedtv.com/Forums/tabid/311/view/topic/postid/3964/forumid/16/tpage/1/Default.aspx#3965

Just one more question. Looking at this alternative card, it says that it has a CI 'designed into it'. Does that mean I wouldn't need to buy a seperate interface as with the TechTrend models?

http://www.hisat.com/proddetail.php?prod=RECVP2031&cat=72

 

[garlicbred]

Here's a quick list of answers to your questions.....

Technotrend 2300 vs 1500 - the 1500 can use BDA drivers and is there compatible with more software. The 2300 uses a hardware decoder, the 1500 is software ie uses the cpu for decoding. NO HD with a 2300.

Other card options - FireDTV / FloppyDTV - Compatible with Vista MCE with CAM decoding. Built in CAM interface (CI). Better quality playback (in my opinion). Expensive.
There are other card options available but I'm only listing those compatible with both a SOFTCAM and CAM

Softcam vs CAM - if your software is compatible with a softcam then use this option if not then use a CAM. It boils down to individual needs. CAMs don't need programming if they have the right firmware -if they don't then it only needs doing once and there are members on the forum who are willing to do this for you for the price of a pint! Softcams are also effective but if the keyroll method changes then you will need to alter your softcam roms to decode. With a CAM you just need to program a funcard with with an autoupdate image for your area and match the boxkey to that of the CAM. Softcams are a little slow to update come keyroll time in my opinion

CAM programming - you can ignore most of the threads concerning this now - these were done when there wasn't a tried and tested method for decoding via CAM / funcard. Word of warning though - Matrix cams DON'T work with funs

Programmers - If you want the best then get a CAS3 - these will program your CAM and funcard. I would personally get a cheap fun programmer and ask nicely for a CAM flash, after all - you only need it doing the once!

Channel tuning - Easy bloody peasy! If you've done a dbox then this shouldn't be a problem. You can find all the info you need in a services.xml file for your area. All the software use similar scanning techniques. You probably won't be able to auto scan though, you will need to edit one of the frequency lists within your software. A full scan of all the transponders should take about 10 - 15 mins.

My shopping list for guaranteed success

Card - TT1500 with CI or fireDTV or floppyDTV (fireDTV works with vista MCE with CAM)
CAM - JOKER 0.79 (you can use ZETA CAMS or ICECRYPT and flash to JOKER)
Card - AU FUN4 with boxkey matching CAM
Programmer - Cheapest fun programmer from JABSPLACE or CAS3 programmer
services.xml for your area but you can find uploaded lists on the forum

Sources - DVBshop for card, ebay for CAM, JABSPLACE for fun programmer / funcard
Not sure how you would get hold of a fireDTV or FLOPPYdtv now - Mine's just gone up in value considerably!!!!

This information is my own recomendation for the easiest / best value method of running cable through a PC.

I will alter the guide in the stickys to reflect these updated changes
Over and out!

 

[camel]

snap

Analpotato

I am just starting to do the same thing

I'm running GBPVR and currently run a Nova-T 500 for the freeview channels, and a plugin to GBPVR that records from & controls my DBOX over the ethernet

But want everything to be in a single box. Just purchased my TT-1500 and going to start with the free-to-air channels first, then move onto a SoftCAM although GBPVR doesn't directly support SoftCAM.

If I cant get the SoftCAM working then go for a CAM.

 

[Ebro]

Thank you Garlicbred for your well written, easily understandable reply.

 

[analpotato]

What Ebro said, Garlicbred. You're an absolute star.

I don't know if you've noticed - I posted this in another thread, but the Fire people seem to have stopped trading, which pretty well reduces my choice to a Technotrend card or the Twinhan card. The Twinhan seems a fair bit cheaper, as I think it comes with the CAM interface included, for about £54 (£63 inc VAT), whereas

Would you buy the TT 1500 with the CI addon straight off the bat, or would you wait and see whether you're happy enough to do it all in software, and buy the CI interface at a later date? I'm a little worried that they might stop making/selling/importing them or whatever.

So, I was just about to order the TT1500 + CI bundle from DVBshop, but I was thrown by their German paypal page. If I can figure it out, I'll order from them ASAP as even with the shipping, they seem to be cheaper than any of the UK dealers. Has anyone else ordered from these people? Any ideas as to how the process went? Any problems with delivery? After sales service, etc?

Also, I noticed that the Joker cams were hugely expensive -- like, £70-80 compared with the IceCams which you seem to be able to pick up for £20-30. Is there any advantage to having a bona-fide joker cam? If I bought one of the cheaper cams, is there any kind soul who would flash it to joker for me?

One last bit: you talk about the cams being necessary for the software that you're running. So if I were running say, Windows Media Edition, I might need to use a hard cam, but there would be other, similar software that is just as happy with soft cams.

Is there a definitive list anywhere of what software works with what cams, categorized into soft vs. hard?

 

[garlicbred]

Firstly, don't get the twinhan card if you intend using a CAM at any point, there are known issues with the CAM interface - it doesn't work!
To be honest, its probably better to get both the 1500 and CI card at the same time, you'll end up paying more postage again for the sake of £20 quid or whatever it costs. Dvbshops service is second to none in my experience, never had a spot of trouble with them and trust them 100%
Just get the cheapest CAM you can find - any of the neonotion chipsets will be fine and as far as I'm aware there are no differences between the two once flashed.
As a general rule of thumb, any software that uses BDA drivers is compatible with a softcam but bear in mind that this involves extra setting up along with everything else - for a newb it can be quite daunting! With a CAM it a case of plug in and forget.
I do know that the windows MCE software needs a cam
Mytheatre / dvbviewer / mediaportal (with a bit of fiddling) all work with softcams

Basicly, if you can afford the CAM setup then go with that, if not then use a softcam

GB

 

[neathdrew]

What Ebro said, Garlicbred. You're an absolute star.

I don't know if you've noticed - I posted this in another thread, but the Fire people seem to have stopped trading, which pretty well reduces my choice to a Technotrend card or the Twinhan card. The Twinhan seems a fair bit cheaper, as I think it comes with the CAM interface included, for about £54 (£63 inc VAT), whereas

Would you buy the TT 1500 with the CI addon straight off the bat, or would you wait and see whether you're happy enough to do it all in software, and buy the CI interface at a later date? I'm a little worried that they might stop making/selling/importing them or whatever.

So, I was just about to order the TT1500 + CI bundle from DVBshop, but I was thrown by their German paypal page. If I can figure it out, I'll order from them ASAP as even with the shipping, they seem to be cheaper than any of the UK dealers. Has anyone else ordered from these people? Any ideas as to how the process went? Any problems with delivery? After sales service, etc?

Also, I noticed that the Joker cams were hugely expensive -- like, £70-80 compared with the IceCams which you seem to be able to pick up for £20-30. Is there any advantage to having a bona-fide joker cam? If I bought one of the cheaper cams, is there any kind soul who would flash it to joker for me?

One last bit: you talk about the cams being necessary for the software that you're running. So if I were running say, Windows Media Edition, I might need to use a hard cam, but there would be other, similar software that is just as happy with soft cams.

Is there a definitive list anywhere of what software works with what cams, categorized into soft vs. hard?

i just bought a floppydtv, i think the firedtv is still available....status 'in stock'

http://www.satking.de/index.php?cPath=103&kendola=ab328649feb875b94bea0592f85e31e4



as far as the cam when u get 1.... i can flash it for u....pm me, this is becoming a bit of a habit for me now...better hurry cause i'm gonna have to sell sum of me stuff soon as me missus has found out how much i'm spending on this htpc.....bonus is we ain't talking at the mo, so i should be able to keep it for a while...mind u i'm fooking starving and on my last pair of clean jeans..

cheers

 

[cafe.racer]

I'm still having problems with scanning for channels - I don't know if it's me or what, but garlicbred says it's "easy-peasy".

I think there's something funny going on in MCE (2005) as at various points I've had anything from all the channels, to none. Doesn't seem at all consistent.

I can't find a services.xml for my area, my lack of DBox experience is probably not helping my searching. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a pure ntlhell serices.xml? I've tried the Nottingham one that's in the downloads, didn't seem to work.

 

[neathdrew]

I'm still having problems with scanning for channels - I don't know if it's me or what, but garlicbred says it's "easy-peasy".

I think there's something funny going on in MCE (2005) as at various points I've had anything from all the channels, to none. Doesn't seem at all consistent.

I can't find a services.xml for my area, my lack of DBox experience is probably not helping my searching. Can anyone point me in the right direction for a pure ntlhell serices.xml? I've tried the Nottingham one that's in the downloads, didn't seem to work.

ain't got much experience with mce yet - only with a dvb-t card - but it may be worth trying a different application first such as mytheatre, ritzdvb, watchtvpro where u can do a manual scan, i would think the transponder frequencies listed in the dbox file should be ok, well at least most of them.

cheers

 

[analpotato]

OK, the HTPC is finally built. The only thing left to do is to put in the card.

I don't actually have a floppy drive in this machine, so the floppydvt is pretty well ruled out, but I do like the idea of the stand alone version that they do. I'm not sure why -- they just appear to be a bit more robust than the various cards on the market.

That said, I'm not sure that I can justify spending the extra £100 or so it would cost if the Technotrend card will do the job just as well.

I've got fair amount of experience in writing technical documentation, so when I'm finished, I'll document the process as thoroughly as I can, and stick it up on here somewhere.

Neathdrew, thanks a lot for your kind offer. I really do appreciate it, and if there's anything I can do to show my appreciation, please let me know. I'll pm you as soon as I get my cam sorted out.

 

[neathdrew]

I don't actually have a floppy drive in this machine, so the floppydvt is pretty well ruled out, but I do like the idea of the stand alone version that they do. I'm not sure why -- they just appear to be a bit more robust than the various cards on the market.

the card fits in a pci slot but u can buy a 3.5" attachment to fit in the floppy drive to access the smartcard easier. mine just arrived.

That said, I'm not sure that I can justify spending the extra £100 or so it would cost if the Technotrend card will do the job just as well.

it cost me about 70 euros / £50 more than the tt1500 with ci attachment.

Neathdrew, thanks a lot for your kind offer. I really do appreciate it, and if there's anything I can do to show my appreciation, please let me know. I'll pm you as soon as I get my cam sorted out.

if u get a cam make sure it's the icecrypt as the blue zetacam is a pain to change the firmware.

cheers

 

[Lube]

analpotato, neathdrew

Im new to all of this too, but i have a strong technical background, so should get to grips with all this once ive done some more reading!

This thread has answered a TON of questions for me. I like the sound of a guide for the build your working on. This is exactly the type of project that id like to take on. I feel that it should be written as a forum post rather than a download.