Ferrari issue F1 quit ultimatum

[wilson1980]

Ferrari have threatened to quit Formula 1 at the end of the season if the sport continues with plans to introduce an optional £40m budget cap from 2010.

"No F1 in 2010 if the rules do not change," read a statement. "Ferrari does not intend to register cars for the 2010 F1 world championship."

Ferrari fear the evolution of a two-tier championship, between those teams who adopt the cap and those who do not.

The teams will discuss the plans with FIA chief Max Mosley in the next week.

And Ferrari, in a statement, insist their announcement is not simply posturing: "The same rules for all teams, stability of regulations, the continuity of... endeavours to methodically and progressively reduce costs, and governance of Formula 1 are priorities for the future.

"If these indispensable principles are not respected, and if the regulations decided for 2010 will not change, Ferrari does not intend to enter its cars."

I would be amazed if Ferrari aren't racing in 2010 - this is just the opening of a series of discussions

BBC Five Live Formula 1 correspondent David Croft

The announcement will put to the test Mosley's resolve after he claimed earlier this month that F1 could live without Ferrari, the sport's most famous, most successful, and longest-tenured team.

"The sport could survive without Ferrari," he said. "It would be very sad. It is the Italian national team."

F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, meanwhile, dismissed claims Ferrari could quit F1 on Tuesday, telling the Times: "Ferrari are not stupid. They don't want to leave Formula 1 and we don't want to lose them, so we'll get to grips with it."

However, Toyota and Red Bull have also already threatened not to enter next year's championship unless the new rules change.

And Ferrari have criticised the FIA's decision-making process, stating: "The rules of governance that have contributed to the development of F1 over the last 25 years have been disregarded, as have the binding contractual obligations between Ferrari and the FIA itself regarding the stability of the regulations.

"The same rules for all teams, stability of regulations, the continuity of the F1 Teams' Association's (FOTA) endeavours to methodically and progressively reduce costs, and governance of Formula 1 are the priorities for the future.

F1 MOLE BLOG
The teams are unanimous in opposing a two-tier championship

"If these indispensable principles are not respected and if the regulations adopted for 2010 will not change, then Ferrari do not intend to enter our cars in the next Formula 1 World Championship."

The FIA wants to introduce an optional £40m budget cap next year to encourage new teams to enter.

The plan would allow capped teams to operate with far greater technical freedom than those continuing with unlimited budgets.

However, Ferrari's president Luca di Montezemolo, head of FOTA, has warned it would create a two-tier championship that could be "fundamentally unfair and perhaps even biased".

The FIA has set a deadline of 29 May for teams wishing to compete in 2010 to enter and state whether they want a cap or not.

But, BBC Five Live Formula 1 correspondent David Croft fully expects Ferrari to line up on the grid in 2010, despite the threat.

Ferrari is obviously the biggest name in F1 with many supporters and has been there since the very beginning, so they belong in F1 for sure

BMW driver Nick Heidfeld

"I would be amazed if Ferrari aren't racing in 2010," he said, "I think this is just the opening of a series of discussions that will take place between the sports most historic team and the governing body.

"It's inconceivable that we would have Formula 1 without Ferrari. Mosley says the sport doesn't need them, but I think a lot of people would beg to disagree."

Still, F1 drivers disagree with Mosley's claim that the sport could survive without Ferrari.

World champion Lewis Hamilton said he "could not imagine" F1 without Ferrari while Renault's Fernando Alonso said it was "impossible" for it to happen.

And BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld was left bemused by Mosley's comments.

He said: "I thought that people were looking and listening to the fans worldwide and Ferrari is obviously the biggest name in F1 with many supporters and has been there since the very beginning, so they belong in F1."

Ferrari, the sport's oldest and most successful team, also threatened a pull-out in October if proposals for a standard engine for all teams went ahead.



BBC SPORT | Motorsport | Formula 1 | Ferrari issue F1 quit ultimatum

 

[Firemouth]

cant argue with their reasoning.
but no F1 without Ferrari? that may be what they want you to think.
BALLS, it will go on without them, and as no lesser sport for their loss. we may not be able to imagine the sport without them. but in 5 years time, the comment will be "do you remember when that car maker Ferrari used to race F1"? all their sponsors will find someone else in the sport. very possibly spreading the money more evenly. you could make a reasonable argument that Ferrari leaving F1, is actually good for the sport.

I don't want to see them go (i don't agree with the rule changes) but they will only be missed for a short while imho.

 

[hoppy]

Its not the first and it wont be the last time that Ferrari have thrown their toys out the pram when things dont go their way.
I hate to agree with Mosley in any way as i detest the man but he is right!!
F1 "will" survive without Ferrari..
Its simply an empty threat that they have often pulled off to get their way.
For too long now they have had it their way with some dodgy decisions going their way by the FIA.
As you may have guessed i am not a Ferrari fan...

 

[snapman]

F1 could still go on without Ferrari, but, in the big scheme of things, F1 would hurt.

Almost every race you see, what percentage of the paying race-goers are Ferrari fans? Definitely the majority anyway.

I know these paying customers don't really bring in mega-money in the big scheme of things, but viewing figures for the BBC would go down dramatically in my opinion as well.

But at the end of the day this is a proposal. I'm sure they'll all sit down at the table to negotiate a compromise that should suit all parties.

And for the record, I'm not a Ferrari fan either.

 

[hoppy]

F1 could still go on without Ferrari, but, in the big scheme of things, F1 would hurt.

Almost every race you see, what percentage of the paying race-goers are Ferrari fans? Definitely the majority anyway.

I know these paying customers don't really bring in mega-money in the big scheme of things, but viewing figures for the BBC would go down dramatically in my opinion as well.

But at the end of the day this is a proposal. I'm sure they'll all sit down at the table to negotiate a compromise that should suit all parties.

And for the record, I'm not a Ferrari fan either.

Have to say fella i dont agree with that.
You only have to look at the list of manfacturers who have left in the past and its not affected the sport.
When alfa romero left they said the same.
Boboboy is spot on. In a couple of years it would be all forgot and it will hurt Ferrari more than F1.

 

[jaffa]

I already posted about this in the Sports section....but not everyone goes there to view topics, I thought of main neews but its sports related so I stuck with that.

I agree with Ferrari....and it wont be the same without them...no team is bigger than F1 but it is simply just not Frarri...Toyota already said before today they would pull out if the cap wasnt lifted and I imagine they will not be the only 2 teams.

I hate Ferrari with a passion but sometimes I agree with them....I dont want to see F1 turn into a farce. Every year now there is a change, should it be qualifying, tyres, engines etc etc. And now we have the prospect of no refuelling...how the hell is that going to work....newer bigger tanks or fuel efficient engines....lets all go watch electric tractor racing

 

[snapman]

Fair point hoppy54. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I believe it would have some sort of impact if Ferarri left.

Of course, time is a great healer, and if they did leave, in the future their departure wouldn't be felt as much.

But in these trying financial times, Ferarri leaving, in my opinion (for what it's worth!! lol) would have a big impact on the sport.

Anyway, going of at a tangent here, but isn't it good to see so-called "lesser" teams doing so well this year?

 

[hoppy]

Fair point hoppy54. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I believe it would have some sort of impact if Ferarri left.

Of course, time is a great healer, and if they did leave, in the future their departure wouldn't be felt as much.

But in these trying financial times, Ferarri leaving, in my opinion (for what it's worth!! lol) would have a big impact on the sport.

Anyway, going of at a tangent here, but isn't it good to see so-called "lesser" teams doing so well this year?

Your right zippy it would have an effect in the short term.
I also agree with what ferrari are saying and im also totally fed up with the FIA and their constant changes which is killing the sport.
I think its because im so anti Ferrari and ive heard them say this so many times that it grates my nipples a bit. lol
I agree with your views with the lesser teams doing well, i love it.

 

[pipsqueaker]

I'm glad Ferrari are standing up to the FIA.
The Mosley mob are slowly but surely destroying the sport.
If Ferrari left F1, it would be distrastrous for the sport.
I'd say that Ferrari have by far the biggest following around the world.
The financial implications would immense.
Like Eccleston said at the weekend ' Ferrari is F1, F1 is Ferrari'
They are the benchmark of motor engineering
Although we are all in favour of seeing the lesser teams doing well so far this year, I think we all know that it is merely a blip. We all know that the real competition is between the major manufacturers.

 

[Firemouth]

We all know that the real competition is between the major manufacturers.

you see that where the problem is. F1 is not, except for the first decade, about manufacturers. its about small bespoke makers collecting the best bits they can find. and making a car out of them. (more correctly that what it became) even now only three of the teams are manufacturers. McLarens contract with Merc is up soon,(and there is no guarantee it will be resigned) and, despite the view held by many. McLaren are an independent team. so six out of ten teams have no manufacturers behind them. and 7 are independent. its only in the last decade or so that the makers have taken interest (works team) in F1.

Ferrari were not even the successful in the modern era, (i accept they were one of most successful single marques) between 1959 and 2000 they only won 5 world drivers titles. 2 in the 60's and 3 in the 70's. and only 9 constructors titles. 2 in the 60's, 4 in the 70's and 2 in the 80's and 1 in the 90's. thats over 40 years and only 9 titles. in the same time Lotus won 5 constructors titles, and raced for less than 20 years.
so if you exclude the 50's and the 00's Ferrari have won as many titles a Williams. only the last 10 years has Ferrari as a true success. so sure now, it seems unthinkable that they should not take part. but an essential part of F1, not a chance.

 

[hoppy]

I'm glad Ferrari are standing up to the FIA.
The Mosley mob are slowly but surely destroying the sport.
If Ferrari left F1, it would be distrastrous for the sport.
I'd say that Ferrari have by far the biggest following around the world.
The financial implications would immense.
Like Eccleston said at the weekend ' Ferrari is F1, F1 is Ferrari'
They are the benchmark of motor engineering
Although we are all in favour of seeing the lesser teams doing well so far this year, I think we all know that it is merely a blip. We all know that the real competition is between the major manufacturers.

lesser teams being a blip???
Red Bull, Adrian Newey!!

 

[Firemouth]

They are the benchmark of motor engineering
Although we are all in favour of seeing the lesser teams doing well so far this

cmon now what engineering benchmarks have they set? the only innovations, in F1, Ferrari have made are The semi automatic gearbox, and high exhaust layout. (they, traditionally, make bad unreliable, copies of other peoples ideas) absolutely nothing else. All the innovation and benchmarks have come from the elsewhere, as the list above shows. in the late 80's and little 90's. it was inconceivable that Williams would not be at the forefront of F1. where are they now? Red car, Red Herring. i feel you have fallen for their hype. in my view F1 would have been better off over the last decade or so, if Ferrari had not been there. not that i want them to go, but i would not attempt to stop the door hitting them as they leave!

 

[ms2005]

it would be like taking Rangers out of the SPL, pave the way for the smaller outlets to come through but ultimately, pants.

Ferrari are Ferrari and are the biggest selling supercar brand in the world for a bloody good reasons, they make outrageoulsy brilliant cars and F1 is usually the start of how things make it to road cars i.e. tiptronic, semi automatics, aerodynamics etc

No Ferrari would be rubbbish, I would prefer Mosley disappeared than Ferrari. F1 definately would survive without that idiot.

 

[Firemouth]

Ferrari are Ferrari and are the biggest selling supercar brand in the world for a bloody good reasons, they make outrageoulsy brilliant cars and F1 is usually the start of how things make it to road cars i.e. tiptronic, semi automatics, aerodynamics etc

I would prefer Mosley disappeared than Ferrari. F1 definately would survive without that idiot.

they are the worlds biggest maker of super cars, because they are the only large volume maker of such. and as i noted, only the semi auto box was, directly from the Ferrari drawing board. their cars may be brilliant to drive, but are very fragile. cost a fortune to run. have stupidly short service periods. and, on the whole, are poorly made for cars of their price range. No i aint owned one, yes i have driven a few and yes i know several people who own one. its a point worth knowing that all except one of the people i know with one, use various versions of the Porsche 911 as their day to day car. keeping the Ferrari as a treasured item, more to be looked at then driven. or use it for track days only.

i do fully agree about the pervert though. it would be nice if he took his dominative mate with him too!

 

[NL7]

so renault decide to join and threaten to pull out.... hmmmm... how many are gona join them.......?

 

[pipsqueaker]

I'm not a fan of Ferrari but the fact is if you speak about F1 to anyone an image of the Red Ferrari will come into their head. Whenever you see a promotional ad for F1 there will be a picture of their race cars.
This is a fact you can't get away from.
It is no good talking about years ago, this is here and now, and here and now is Ferrari.

As I said before, if F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, then the top teams must be allowed to develope their machines to the utmost, regardless of the cost.
It's not Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault and Toyota fault if the small teams can't raise sufficient cash.

 

[hoppy]

I'm not a fan of Ferrari but the fact is if you speak about F1 to anyone an image of the Red Ferrari will come into their head. Whenever you see a promotional ad for F1 there will be a picture of their race cars.
This is a fact you can't get away from.
It is no good talking about years ago, this is here and now, and here and now is Ferrari.

As I said before, if F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, then the top teams must be allowed to develope their machines to the utmost, regardless of the cost.
It's not Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault and Toyota fault if the small teams can't raise sufficient cash.

so would you just be happy seeing a grid with Mclaren,Renault and Toyota then??
Have you ever read your history of F1??
Big car manufacturers will compete until it suits there financial needs.
When it dosent they simply pull out and leave gaps.
Ehh Honda springs to mind most recently.
Toyota have had a blank cheque and have spent over a "billion" dollars so far and have failed to win a race yet.
The reason they are competing this year at the front of the grid has a lot to do with Williams sharing parts with them.
For years Honda were also throwing stupid money at F1 with no success until they hired Ross Brawn who now has a small budget and is leading the championship.
If the sport was allowed to go uncapped it would simply go down the toilet.

I am not in favour of all the rule changes but for many reasons F1 will always be the pinnacle of motor sport.

 

[ms2005]

they are the worlds biggest maker of super cars, because they are the only large volume maker of such. and as i noted, only the semi auto box was, directly from the Ferrari drawing board. their cars may be brilliant to drive, but are very fragile. cost a fortune to run. have stupidly short service periods. and, on the whole, are poorly made for cars of their price range. No i aint owned one, yes i have driven a few and yes i know several people who own one. its a point worth knowing that all except one of the people i know with one, use various versions of the Porsche 911 as their day to day car. keeping the Ferrari as a treasured item, more to be looked at then driven. or use it for track days only.

i do fully agree about the pervert though. it would be nice if he took his dominative mate with him too!

I would agree the 355 and 360 are real drivers cars, they live in the edge and if you push them they'll spit you right back out.

The F430 the 599 and even the new California really are proper, day to day, Ferrari's. I would largely agree that Porsche has the day to day market but there are some many variations running from the utterly ridicuolus to the sublime that unless you know anything about them you just see a Porsche, you don't see a Boxster or a turbo or an RS, GT3 etc, hence why the owners club kicked up stink and made Porsche revert back to using flat headlights on the Boxster rather than mass producing the bubble lights found on 911's.

As such I would argue that Porsche isn't really a super car, it's not luxurious to own, it's not in your face, it's not what a super car should be.

Nothing I have ever driven drives like a Ferrari, even the Gallardo, depsite packing more power, feels like a Ferrari, it feels like an Audi on steroids, and not even an R8, it's dash is lifted right out of the RS6, as is the R8. You put your foot to the floor in a Ferrari and it growls, roars and hurls you forward until your neck is snapping on the perfectly stitched head rest.

I know this is massivly off topic but Ferrari may be mass produced but it's spectacularly done, everything about a Ferrari is unique, special and makes you proud to open the door everytime you get in it, something I think other super cars just don't give you.

I think all super cars have ridiculous service periods, I know most Lamborghini clutches last less that 10K and cost the better side of £5k to replace but if you're buying a £130,000 supercar the clutch is the last of your worries.

That said, I've never had the pleasure of driving Lambo's flagship Murciélago so maybe this has something the Gallardo just doesn't deliver, at least for me!

 

[Firemouth]

I would agree the 355 and 360 are real drivers cars, they live in the edge and if you push them they'll spit you right back out.

The F430 the 599 and even the new California really are proper, day to day, Ferrari's. I would largely agree that Porsche has the day to day market but there are some many variations running from the utterly ridicuolus to the sublime that unless you know anything about them you just see a Porsche, you don't see a Boxster or a turbo or an RS, GT3 etc, hence why the owners club kicked up stink and made Porsche revert back to using flat headlights on the Boxster rather than mass producing the bubble lights found on 911's.

As such I would argue that Porsche isn't really a super car, it's not luxurious to own, it's not in your face, it's not what a super car should be.

Nothing I have ever driven drives like a Ferrari, even the Gallardo, depsite packing more power, feels like a Ferrari, it feels like an Audi on steroids, and not even an R8, it's dash is lifted right out of the RS6, as is the R8. You put your foot to the floor in a Ferrari and it growls, roars and hurls you forward until your neck is snapping on the perfectly stitched head rest.

I know this is massivly off topic but Ferrari may be mass produced but it's spectacularly done, everything about a Ferrari is unique, special and makes you proud to open the door everytime you get in it, something I think other super cars just don't give you.

I think all super cars have ridiculous service periods, I know most Lamborghini clutches last less that 10K and cost the better side of £5k to replace but if you're buying a £130,000 supercar the clutch is the last of your worries.

That said, I've never had the pleasure of driving Lambo's flagship Murciélago so maybe this has something the Gallardo just doesn't deliver, at least for me!

i would agree 911 is no super car. but as a performance road car, until you get to the track, it has the beating of most super cars.the big VW, oops sorry, Bugatti, possibly being the exception.(aint never seen one in life. let alone driven one, so can only guess based on tests). i have never driven any Ferrari on a race track in anger. though i have been round Mallory Park in a Mondial-(t?), the soft top. but the guy had only bought it the day before. at the time, i had never driven a supercar, not really how i would describe the Mondial. lol.but i loved the feel,though i though it was a bit flighty. it was also starting to drop its trim. ffs it was a properly serviced, mollycoddled two year old car, with trim flapping with the roof down. a problem i also noticed, on the Testarossa,(trim flapping, not roof down, lol) of about the same age, but much more mileage.
lol back on topic. Ferrari are, the only, bulk super car maker on earth. they do not, in F1, innovate. when they try, it all goes to $hit. they copy, usually badly. what marks this last decade or so, in F1, is the consistency of the chassis rules. this has given Ferrari the opportunity of, actually, learning about the things they copy. add a massive budget and you have the, ONLY, successful period in Ferraris F1 history.
unless they start to innovate, or at least try, what place do they have in F1?
they would never be forgotten, but will be missed only for a short while. i have read here, F1 is the pinnacle of car and engine design. so why would we miss them? as they have offered little of note in the mechanical or engineering department to the sport. oh yeh, i forgot. red road cars. even then, they offer little in the way of innovation.

 

[pipsqueaker]

Ferrari is the ONLY team that has competed in every season since the FIA was formed in 1950. I would suspect there's more chance of Mosley going than Ferrari.