[copy] Illegal downloads and dodgy figures

hamba

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Bad science:

Illegal downloads and dodgy figures

You are killing our creative industries. "Downloading costs billions," said the Sun. "MORE than 7 million Brits use illegal downloading sites that cost the economy billions of pounds, government advisers said today. Researchers found more than a million people using a download site in ONE day and estimated that in a year they would use £120bn worth of material."

That's about a tenth of our GDP. No wonder the Daily Mail was worried too: "The network had 1.3 million users sharing files online at midday on a weekday. If each of those downloaded just one file per day, this would amount to 4.73bn items being consumed for free every year." Now I am always suspicious of this industry, because they have produced a lot of dodgy figures over the years. I also doubt that every download is lost revenue since, for example, people who download more also buy more music. I'd like more details.

So where do these notions of so many billions in lost revenue come from? I found the original report. It was written by some academics you can hire in a unit at UCL called Ciber, the Centre for Information Behaviour and the Evaluation of Research (which "seeks to inform by countering idle speculation and uninformed opinion with the facts"). The report was commissioned by a government body called Sabip, the Strategic Advisory Board for Intellectual Property. On the billions lost it says: "Estimates as to the overall lost revenues if we include all creative industries whose products can be copied digitally, or counterfeited, reach £10bn (IP rights, 2004), conservatively, as our figure is from 2004, and a loss of 4,000 jobs."

What is the origin of this conservative figure? I hunted down the full Ciber documents, found the references section, and followed the web link, which led to a 2004 press release from a private legal firm called Rouse who specialise in intellectual property law. This press release was not about the £10bn figure. It was, in fact, a one-page document, which simply welcomed the government setting up an intellectual property theft strategy. In a short section headed "background", among five other points, it says: "Rights owners have estimated that last year alone counterfeiting and piracy cost the UK economy £10bn and 4,000 jobs." An industry estimate, as an aside, in a press release. Genius.

But what about all these other figures in the media coverage? Lots of it revolved around the figure of 4.73bn items downloaded each year, worth £120bn. This means each downloaded item, software, movie, mp3, ebook, is worth about £25. This already seems rather high. I am not an economist, but to me, for example, an appropriate comparator for someone who downloads a film to watch it once might be the rental value, not the sale value.

In any case, that's £175 a week or £8,750 a year potentially not being spent by millions of people. Is this really lost revenue for the economy, as reported in the press? Plenty will have been schoolkids, or students, and even if not, that's still about a third of the average UK wage. Before tax.

Oh, but the figures were wrong: it was actually 473m items and £12bn (so the item value was still £25) but the wrong figures were in the original executive summary, and the press release. They changed them quietly, after the errors were pointed out by a BBC journalist.

I asked what steps they took to notify journalists of their error, which exaggerated their findings by a factor of 10 and were reported around the world. Sabip refused to answer questions in emails, insisted on a phone call, told me that they had taken steps but wouldn't say what and explained something about how they couldn't be held responsible for lazy journalism, then, bizarrely, after 10 minutes, tried to tell me retrospectively that the call was off the record. I think it's OK to be confused and disappointed by this. Like I said: as far as I'm concerned, everything from this industry is false, until proven otherwise.




Ben Goldacre
Friday 5 June 2009 23.09 BST
guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009
 
Re: Bad science: Illegal downloads and dodgy figures

What I've been saying all along. They pull their figures out of thin air.
 
Re: Bad science: Illegal downloads and dodgy figures

I'm away to download £120bn worth of stuff and sell it at £3 each

what a load of pish lol seansationaliseing at its best eh?

Cheers
MFCGAVMFC
 
Re: Bad science: Illegal downloads and dodgy figures

I love those 'Bad Science' articles in the Guardian. It's amazing what nonsense people will believe just because the 'media' tells them so.
 
Re: Bad science: Illegal downloads and dodgy figures

I love those 'Bad Science' articles in the Guardian. It's amazing what nonsense people will believe just because the 'media' tells them so.

The media in this country are a disgrace at best Nara.
:Clap:
 
'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

Creative industry representatives warn of urgent need for measures against illicit filesharing ahead of Digital Britain report

coalition of creative industries organisations, including the UK's biggest trade union, Amicus/Unite, have increased the pressure on the government to act against illegal downloading in next week's final Digital Britain report, saying that there will otherwise be large job losses in TV, film and music across the UK.

The lobbying effort is backed by more than 15 organisations from the creative industries and, for the first time, Amicus/Unite and the Trade Union Congress.

In a letter to today's Daily Telegraph, the creative industries coalition urges the prime minister, Gordon Brown, to ensure a tough stance is taken in the final Digital Britain report, due to be published by the communications minister, Lord Carter, next Tuesday.

The letter argues that illegal filesharing is not a "victimless crime" but one that will result in revenue losses that will mean "fewer films, songs and TV programmes [will be] able to be commissioned".

"Job losses will be felt right across the chain, from production to distribution, from technicians to manufacturers and from logistics companies to staff in high street shops," states the co-signed letter.

"The government report is Gordon Brown's golden opportunity to tackle this growing threat and, at the 11th hour, to save the future of the UK creative industries."

Other organisations that have signed the letter include the independent TV and film producers' trade body Pact, the broadcasting and entertainment union Bectu, the Musicians' Union, and the UK music industry trade body, the BPI.

Carter's interim Digital Britain report, published in January, outlined proposals to introduce legislation to standardise a process in which internet service providers will have to send warning letters to illegal filesharers and collect information on "serious repeat offenders". The rights holders could then individually pursue offenders through the court system.

However, the creative industries coalition argues that much stronger measures must be introduced if the government is serious about reducing illegal filesharing of music, TV and film content by up to 80% in two to three years, as it has stated in a leaked letter by Baroness Vadera last year.

The coalition wants to see ISPs forced to follow up the warning letters with technical measures such as slowing internet connections, restricting access to certain websites or even temporary suspension of web access, to "deter and redirect offenders to legal alternatives".

"There is no doubt among members of our unions, as well as the coalition of rights-holders who voice the consensus of the creative industries, that filesharing poses a serious but utterly avoidable threat to jobs," said Brendan Barber, the general secretary of the Trades Union Congress.

"This is through films never made, tracks never recorded and content never invested in. ISPs hold the key to creating the step change necessary to tackle illegal filesharing.

"For the vast majority, simply drawing attention to the illegality of their actions would be sufficient, but this needs to be backed by further graduated technical measures for those who do not change their behaviour."


The letter was co-signed by: Brendan Barber, general secretary of the Trades' Union Congress; Derek Simpson and Tony Woodley, joint general secretaries, Amicus/Unite; Christine Payne, general secretary, equity and director general of the Federation of Entertainment Unions; John Smith, general secretary, Musicians' Union; Gerry Morrissey, general secretary, Broadcasting Entertainment Cinematograph and Theatre Union; Benjamin King, chief executive, Publishers' Association; Susie Winter, director general, Alliance Against IP Theft; John McVay, chief executive, Producers' Association for Cinema and Television; Geoff Taylor, chief executive, British Phonographic Industry; Suzan Dormer, chief executive, Directors' UK; Phil Clapp, chief executive, Cinema Exhibitors' Association; Mark Batey, chief executive, Film Distributors' Association; Lavinia Carey, director general, British Video Association; and Kieron Sharp, chief executive, Federation Against Copyright Theft.




Mark Sweney
Wednesday 10 June 2009 07.31 BST
guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

Everytime this comes up, just because 10 million copies of X software was downloaded illegally, doesn't mean that the company lost x millions pounds.

If you couldn't get hold of a copy of MS Office you would simply use open office, I certainly would not go and buy it.

And in any event, they work all these figures out based on an inflated RRP rather than what the product actually sells for. i.e. you can get a full office suite for £30 if you know where to look.

Multiply X times £30 rather than X times inflated RRP and the "loss" figures would be significantly less and even that would be a wildley optimistic figure
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

they are sort of right, less people are buying movies and games, its a fact, its different when internet piracy was limited to the geeks of the world but now anyone goes onto the internet and 5 minutes of learning how to use a bit of software they can download movies games software all free of charge, even businesses are doing this, businesses cant afford to use open office as it doesnt have as much capabilities as ms office, specially the database related utils, yes the costs are grossly over estimated but it is still a problem, when i worked in a IT business when we got in a new contract with a business we would find that alot of their software was pirated, from the operating systems and office suites to autocad and the likes
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

Its a non-stop circle of arguement, but the government only hear the pressure from one side.

Greed from the industry makes people steal or find alternative. Add that with the fact of more people wanting internet, games machines, computers, or wanting to see world movies etc, or any connected industry, this brings in more overall business than piracy loses and a higher demand for things to be created ~like sequels to films or TV series or video games or Office software etc etc. With everyone having to pay full-greed limitless prices, the worlds economies would soak all money and collapse with nobody spending -or people would go without so industries shut down (like now with recession).

Personally I dont fall for the 'less people are buying' propaganda. Yes, less games, music, films are officially sold for full price, but the money is still spent and shared amongst connected industries. You could argue more have broadband internet, more have computers, more spend on replacement electricals or buy latest gadgets than previous times. It really is a pointless point. Would the Nintendo DS be the most successful handheld without the simple piracy.... like I know none of my 5 kids would have 1 whatsoever with games costing say £30~£50 each.
Fat-cats simply cant have all the money, they will have to share with other growing fat cats too. If they dont want to make movies or games anymore then f=%£ off, because someone else will step in!
'Anti-piracy' is propaganda to make anti-piracy companies huge profit and income..... hey one HUGE reason for piracy to stay -how many jobs and business would close if piracy was stamped out.....
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

Just take wolverine film for example.

A workprint was released a few months early, they had a big outcry saying how it was going to destroy the film, it was missing the CGi ect.

Then the film came out and it done brilliant at the Box office, The workprint actually improved ticket sales.
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

they are sort of right, less people are buying movies and games, its a fact, its different when internet piracy was limited to the geeks of the world but now anyone goes onto the internet and 5 minutes of learning how to use a bit of software they can download movies games software all free of charge, even businesses are doing this, businesses cant afford to use open office as it doesnt have as much capabilities as ms office, specially the database related utils, yes the costs are grossly over estimated but it is still a problem, when i worked in a IT business when we got in a new contract with a business we would find that alot of their software was pirated, from the operating systems and office suites to autocad and the likes

Not sure about this, my old man has his own business and buys all his software as A) He can claim the tax back and B) can offset it against income.

It's just not worth the aggro of an audit to be using pirated software.

For business use I would not recommend it.
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

Many business users do have pirate software, I dont think that is argueable really :)

The main thing is that many business users will not pay full business prices for software, they will use home versions or student editions or alternative cheaper versions -like maybe from a different country or whatever blah. The point is that if they had to pay 500 quid officially, then they could say no and get something else with the money. Open Office is certainly fine for the majority of companies, or they could at least make do. If they buy a cheaper non-commercial product at £150 then they have spent something, all is good even for the rights owner who gets more than zero. If they use a complete pirate version of something and spend zero, then they help keep anti-pirates in business, they stay in business themselves and still provide jobs, they directly stop producers of software taking the pi$$ even further with their rip-off monopolistic prices (this natural capping helps others afford and pay legit), it drives more efficiency in software production, it drives more development.... Simply, you really cant say that choosing piracy costs industry billions, its just 100% false. The police have jobs, the courts have jobs, everyone plays a part, it is a full working economy system. Greedy scum shouting how much they are 'losing' is just pure rubbish. 0 taken from 0 is zero.
 
Filesharing isn't music's biggest foe

Filesharing isn't music's biggest foe

The mystery of where all the money has gone isn't just puzzling economists and estate agents. It's also one that has had the music industry on edge, time after time. Thus, we saw the release last week of some *"research" that said 7 million *people "use" illegal downloads in the UK, "costing the economy billions of pounds and thousands of jobs" . I'm *unhappy to say that it was repeated in this paper. Had I seen it sooner, I would have queried the assertion about the cost to the economy. The number of people doing downloads sounds near enough right, however.


Still, Ben Goldacre eviscerated the claims in *Saturday's paper, in his Bad Science column, pointing out that if every illicit download were a lost sale, then we would be missing about a 10th of GDP. Though on checking he found it was only a 100th of our GDP. (Oopsy, *someone missed a decimal point.) Even so, it's the sort of amount that you don't overlook. And one that doesn't stand to reason. It's too big.


Why does the music industry keep putting these numbers forward? Because it looks at its sales and sees them falling. And it looks at filesharing and sees it growing. Cause and effect, right? Not necessarily. I decided to start from the premise that downloads are not lost sales; that instead there's only a limited amount of short-term spending cash available to people (which remains true, generally, despite credit bubbles). That instead of buying music, they choose to spend it on other things.


What other things might they spend it on? Here's a thought: people who spend on recorded music (CDs, the occasional music DVD) are also very likely to spend on things such as games and DVD purchases or rentals. They are all discretionary purchases. So I dug up the figures from the UK music industry: the British record industry's trade association (the BPI), and the UK games industry (via its trade body, Elspa) as well as the DVD industry (through the UK Film Council and the British Video Association). The results are over on the Guardian Data Store (Are downloads really killing the music industry? Or is it something else? | Technology | guardian.co.uk), because they are the sort of numbers that should be available to everyone to chew over.


What did I find? Total spending has grown – but music spending is being squeezed. The games industry – hardware and software – has grown from £1.4bn in 1999 (the year Napster started, and the music business stood rabbit-transfixed) to £4.04bn in 2008. That's 12% annual compound growth. You'd kill for an endowment like that. Even DVD sales and rental take a £2.5bn bite out of consumers' available funds, double that of 1999.


So the music industry's deadliest enemy isn't filesharing – it's the likes of Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony, and a zillion games publishers. The BPI can argue, fairly, that it loses out badly because its product remains the easiest to steal (and filesharing is a form of theft; don't lie to yourself). But to claim that filesharing is the whole story really fools nobody who has had to choose between a £40 game that will give them weeks of enjoyment, or a Simon Cowell-inspired CD for £10 containing two good tracks and eight somewhat less inspiring efforts.


I hope, though, this will finally shut up the *idiotic debate about "lost sales" and "lost jobs" from *filesharing. True: filesharing isn't good. But the games industry has found the way to persuade people to buy its products. Locked-down consoles? Content you can't transfer? Perhaps if they found some way that it was locked to a device – a phone? Or a subscription service? And it turns out both are being tried – Nokia Comes With Music, and Spotify (and, in some countries, Last.fm). The music business is having to adjust, sure. Everyone is. But let's stop blaming imaginary lost sales for what are really changes in society. Everyone will feel a lot better for it.





Charles Arthur
The Guardian, Thursday 11 June
guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009
 
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Re: Filesharing isn't music's biggest foe

I think Mr Arthur is right in many ways.
The music company's for years have banged on about how illegal copying has destroyed business.
They have made up figures that sometimes look like they have been pulled from a rabbits hat and tried to scare people into submission.
I used to buy shed loads of vinyl years ago and still have them up in my loft and i remember the stupid label you often got on the back of an album, "home taping is killing music"
It didn't, and i always took an album back that had it on the back as i see that as vandalism.

I think his point is very fair about the quality of some of the music on offer.
Mr Cowell and his cronies are a great example of disposable singers with a 2 album life span.
The music industry is second to the fashion industry only in terms of sleaze.
I know the digital age has sped things up but that is no excuse for exploitation, and the record industry is full of it with fat cats lapping it up.

Take Atomic Midden for example.
They release there first album which contains some warmed up covers and a few others wrote by a song writing team of mostly failed singers, who were to fat or ugly to market.
Its followed 5min later with another crap album for teenagers then out comes their greatest hits.
Greatest Hits!! they have only been out 5min..

The record industry is all about quantity and cares nothing about quality.
People fileshare because it simply isnt worth buying.
We have heard all their crap before and will again in the future.
Until "they" change their ways they will continue to plummet and that's fine with me.
 
Re: 'Failure to cut illegal downloads will cause widespread job losses'

Where there's a will there's a way
7 million brits illegally download movies?
I'm surprised its not more
 
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