Chinese execute Brit!!!!

[darren221980]

the criminals in this country have better rights and representation than their victims, those living off the state are better off than those working and paying into the state, the whole legal system in this country is a joke. murder someone and youll be walking the streets in 7 years time, rob a post office with a toy gun and youll be lucky if you see another pillarbox in the next 10 years

everything in the UK is geared against the sheeple. im a law abiding tax paying citizen, yet if some crazed junkie broke into my house in the middle of the night, and ended up impaled on my smaurai sword and a nunchuka sticking out of his eye socket (which if the kids are in the house, WOULD happen) it would be me that goes to prison

if i had the money, and none of the ties, id emigrate in a flash. ive nearly done it twice but things fell through, now i have kids, but id still consider it when theyre older, and the country is in a worse state

Couldn't have put it better myself, which is why i'm thinking of saving for a year and getting the hell out this country. Would ideally like to go to Australia but i get prickly heat in most hot countries i go to unfortunately so that may be out the question. Canada maybe though as already got few friends/family over there.

Anyway back on topic....

This guy committed the crime and deserved what he got for it. If he was mentally ill as claimed then his family should be the one's being questioned for letting him travel in the first place.

 

[wonko]

@senor ding dong

I think you'll find that most reasonable people in china would agree with me - and a hell of a lot elsewhere - and i wasnt specifically implying he deserves no sympathy - as I dont have all the facts - I was saying that he got none and NO ONE in the same situation would - the situation in china is quite simple - deal (or even use) drugs and it's the death sentence - so how many other people (admittedly probably mainly chinese so obviously less important judging by the arguements of some) woudl have died - mentally ill or not - if he had managed to get 4kg of heroin in? thiis isnt somethign that anyone could claim they didnt know was illegal - as has been stated before anyone in their 50's who doesnt know smuggling drugs is illegal everywhere shouldnt be traveling alone - or at all

 

[ekwat]

I have no problem with the way the Chinese have handled this and, if anything, am slightly ashamed of the way our government has deplored them for doing so. Something does bother me though and that is the fact that, according to the Daily Mail, 200 people have been executed, in China, for drug smuggling in the last year. Why does the death sentence not stop these people doing the crime?

 

[HibbyDave]

I have no problem with the way the Chinese have handled this and, if anything, am slightly ashamed of the way our government has deplored them for doing so. Something does bother me though and that is the fact that, according to the Daily Mail, 200 people have been executed, in China, for drug smuggling in the last year. Why does the death sentence not stop these people doing the crime?

Who knows how these pedlars of death and misery think, the one thing that does sadden me about this whole affair is the Chinese refusal to return the body to his family for burial, that is out of order like.


:Cheers:

 

[nara]

Why does the death sentence not stop these people doing the crime?

Because history tells us that the death sentence has never acted as a detterent, anywhere or at anytime.

The murder rate in the USA is a prime example of this.

 

[emarald]

Who knows how these pedlars of death and misery think, the one thing that does sadden me about this whole affair is the Chinese refusal to return the body to his family for burial, that is out of order like.


:Cheers:

Why return the body feed the cnut to the pigs.

On another post how does anyone know that the death penalty does not reduce the murder rate,
I.E, if you have 100 murders what's to say there would not be 200 without the death penalty.

I also believe that had the guy been white they would not have executed him.

 

[wonko]

lol - I think you'll find the chinese government would have to work very hard, for several years, before they managed to get up to "racist" - it's not racism if you think everyones the same - descrimination is neither one of their abilities or liabilities - to demonstrate both aspects look at the olympics

 

[señor ding dong]

China/Britain, Britain/China: Laughing stock?

I know where I would rather live!

Absolutely.

if i had the money, and none of the ties, id emigrate in a flash

But surely not to China? A country that has some of the world's worst crime statistics, an unmatched proliferation of organized crime, one of the world's largest prison populations, and despite their government's secrecy on the matter, the highest documented number of people executed. This is a county that has a death penalty for tax fraud and bribery. Doesn't exactly sound like a little slice of heaven, does it?

...and i wasnt specifically implying he deserves no sympathy - as I dont have all the facts - I was saying that he got none and NO ONE in the same situation would

But this simply isn't true. Not only did the Chinese refuse to even investigate the matter of his mental health, an American recently escaped a death sentence on grounds of mental illness, as per Chinese law, and there are many other reported cases where both foreigners and Chinese have done the same, some for lesser reasons than mental health issues.

the situation in china is quite simple - deal (or even use) drugs and it's the death sentence - so how many other people (admittedly probably mainly chinese so obviously less important judging by the arguements of some) woudl have died - mentally ill or not - if he had managed to get 4kg of heroin in? thiis isnt somethign that anyone could claim they didnt know was illegal

It's quite easy to scam even mentally able people into doing all kinds of things.

to be continued below...

 

[señor ding dong]

If you think you couldn't fairly easily convince a person with these supposed mental issues to carry a briefcase on board a plane without even knowing it's content, you simply don't know what you're talking about. I could easily find you hundreds of cases where people with no mental disabilities have been scammed, tricked and conned in a way that would make you wonder if they were insane to fall for such tricks, even though doing so would in no way amount to an actual diagnosis of a mental condition. The only real question here is whether or not this man really did suffer from these conditions, and again, it was not something that was properly investigated. And that's the only real issue. Part of the reason we have embassies abroad is to protect the rights of our citizens abroad, and make sure they're treated fairly, if they get themselves into trouble, and there's simply no question that this guy was not treated fairly by Chinese authorities.

as has been stated before anyone in their 50's who doesnt know smuggling drugs is illegal everywhere shouldnt be traveling alone - or at all

That's a completely different issue, though. But your comment clearly shows that you believe there are cases where diminished responsibility should be considered, so I'm going to repeat the question I asked Digiguide earlier, and which remains unanswered: When you yourself admitted that you don't know all the facts, why do you feel confident in dismissing the diagnosis we've already mentioned and claiming that he knew what he was doing?

Sorry for the double post. I got an internal server error as soon as I went past a certain length on the first one.

 

[Munkey]

Our government handled the situation very poorly. Why beg and grovel to the Chinese asking for a convicted criminal to be released after he has been sentenced to execution? Our stance on the matter becomes one where we think we know better than them, hardly a position the Chinese will take to lightly. You give China the political upper hand with these shenanigans

It's amusing how our PM intervenes when a smack dealer gets arrested in Asia, or sympathises when a reality TV star passes away but has to be forced into commenting when terrorists are released from life sentences early.

 

[stevemac40]

I can't believe that we have people on here condoning the Chinese Governments actions in executing a man without following a due process to assess his mental state. Knowing what the Chinese record is like on human rights, I have little doubt that he was treated in the same manner that most Chinese nationals in the same situation would be treated, does that make it right?

Capital Punishment ended in the UK a long time ago because it was ineffective and not symbolic of a civilised society.

Those that think that Capital Punishment is effective and a sign of civility might want to take a look at the list of countries that actually do actively use it, ask yourself would you consider moving there.

 

[emarald]

Those that think that Capital Punishment is effective and a sign of civility might want to take a look at the list of countries that actually do actively use it, ask yourself would you consider moving there.

Yes here a some below

Bahamas
Dominica
Jamaica
United States
Trinidad and Tobago
Singapore
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Malaysia

 

[mozr]

The death penalty for moving processed poppy is extreme to say the least. To kill someone for such an act degrades the society that sanctions it, surely.

However in this case, I do not have ANY sympathy with the mental illness defence whatsoever.

There is an encroaching desire in western society to categorize behaviour and by doing so create a normal modality for which to distinguish abhorrent behaviour.

The reasons for this lie in a paradox. The paradox being that as our personal choices increase through wealth and the establishment of rights, we search to isolate reasons why the choices we make are hindered or influenced by external and internal factors.

Why did the guy carry the drugs into China? Was he duped? Did he just want to make friend because his illness made him behave in a naive manner?

All these questions present the supposition that he did not make the choice himself, as he was not able to. Personal responsibility is abdicated.

The youtube video is symptomatic of this asinine desire to reduce individual human beings to philosophical uncut blocks of clay, unable to shape themselves through free will, only reacting to society.

He was not an innocent, childlike man, whose only wish in life was to sing songs about rabbits. This is not a Disney film.

Again, should we be killing people who move compounds about? No. Should China listen to another mealy mouthed attempt to absolve any wrong doing? Nope.

 

[señor ding dong]

However in this case, I do not have ANY sympathy with the mental illness defence whatsoever.

Why did the guy carry the drugs into China? Was he duped? Did he just want to make friend because his illness made him behave in a naive manner?

I actually agree that there has in recent times been an increasingly worrying tendency to excuse any number of personal human flaws, by suggesting that they're merely caused by various conditions, and no country should ever budge because of another country's "he's one of ours" argument. The problem is that due process was clearly not followed, and often isn't in China. If the guy did indeed suffer from a genuine illness and was duped into carrying the drugs, then there's a case for a reduced sentence, and there are numerous examples of such leniency from the Chinese justice system, even if they might have been handed out on a roll-of-the-dice basis.

Whatever your views on mental illness, death penalty, etc, etc, might be, this was simply what in legal terms would be considered an unsafe conviction, and the UK and its representatives in China were right to try and intervene, even if they ultimately failed.

 

[Munkey]

I can't believe that we have people on here condoning the Chinese Governments actions in executing a man without following a due process to assess his mental state. Knowing what the Chinese record is like on human rights, I have little doubt that he was treated in the same manner that most Chinese nationals in the same situation would be treated, does that make it right?

Capital Punishment ended in the UK a long time ago because it was ineffective and not symbolic of a civilised society.

Those that think that Capital Punishment is effective and a sign of civility might want to take a look at the list of countries that actually do actively use it, ask yourself would you consider moving there.

Gonna disagree with you on this one steve, I don't think we are in any kind of position to think that we hold any moral high ground over the Chinese. Their judicial system is different to ours, it should be as they have appx 20 times our population. It's a different culture altogether and I wouldn't agree that we are more civilised than them just because we condemn the death penalty, that's a tad arrogant.

So far as human rights go we have no regard for them, just take a look at our foreign policy and the millions dead.

 

[ekwat]

Gonna disagree with you on this one steve, I don't think we are in any kind of position to think that we hold any moral high ground over the Chinese. Their judicial system is different to ours, it should be as they have appx 20 times our population. It's a different culture altogether and I wouldn't agree that we are more civilised than them just because we condemn the death penalty, that's a tad arrogant.

So far as human rights go we have no regard for them, just take a look at our foreign policy and the millions dead.

Very rarely agree with Munkey but have to on this occasion.

 

[earthshayker]

Yes here a some below

Bahamas
Dominica
Jamaica
United States
Trinidad and Tobago
Singapore
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Malaysia

M8 I am from Dominica. Look up our crime rate (if you can find it)

Its not just the case of we have the death penalty but more a case of the threat of the penalty. The last person to be hanged was in 1986.
There was a coup to over throw the government and the 2 guys that lead the coup (Frederick Newton and Patrick John) were caught but Frederick Newton decided to open fire and shot a police officer and injured some other people. Patrick John was jailed but Frederick Newton got the death penalty for taking a life.

We still have the death penalty yes but the people that up hold the law have yet (from 1986) to find someone committing a crime that deserves the death penalty.
I don't know too much about the Chinese but the guys family and British had over 2 years (I think) to try to do something about it. I personally feel that enough wasn't done in the time they had. I might be wrong but thats just the way I see it

 

[TBC]

The mental illness defence is far too commonly used in our society, quite wether i personally feel it is correct or just that smuggling controlled substances should attract the death penalty seems irrelevant. How can our culture continue to excuse the actions of those with or diagnosed with mental illness, to the point they should not be responsible for there actions. For if the situation exists that these people get into such problems, then they cannot be aloud to roam society freely as responsible individuals.

The laws of each country are soveriegn and paramount to the corect function of that country - it is not acceptable to seek to apply presure to another soveriegn power in order to alter the outcome of there judicial process. In a nutshell if you do something in that country that is punishable by the death penalty then you should expect to be judged by them and duly punished. Lets face it this guy was clearly not some globetrotting wannabe pop star, on a fairy tale mission to make fookin records - he was in China, who travels from britain to china to make a fookin record ffs. It may be that the guy had mental issues - the real question is did these issues make him somehow unable to grasp that he was smuggling heroin in a suitcase to a country with the DP for it. Maybe we are to believe this just made him an easy target for duping. tbh imo none of it is very likely and since being captured doing the deed it was merely pondered as it is in our society that perhaps he could get away with it if he offered a few claims of mental illness, not realy surprised the chinese ignored the requests tbvh..

 

[gav12345]

got to agree with TBC

very good post m8

happy new year

 

[nara]

got to agree with TBC

very good post m8

happy new year

...and you used the 'thanks' button to indicate agreement, rather than because you found the post useful.

Here we go again. : grim :