ok since i can get it all working and that in ifconfig (but no or very slow net) and that, after a few days of constant reflashing, the only thing i can think of after reading the tuts time and time again is the fact that i'm using 2 modems *ahem* from the same area - even though they are both online, hibby mate as you suggested then i think it's time to borrow a *ahem* modem (address) from another ubr so they are on different ones......other than that.....shot gun to ma forhead !