Benefit shake-up 'revolutionary'

DiamondGeezer

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Benefit claimants could be forced to pick up litter and erase graffiti under plans to be unveiled by ministers.

The Welfare Green Paper is set to include proposals to force those unemployed for more than two years to work full-time in the community.

Incapacity benefit will be scrapped as part of a scheme to get more people claiming the benefit back to work.

Minister James Purnell says the plans are "revolutionary". The Tories say they had many of the ideas first.

This shake-up will apply to all 4.5 million people on out-of-work benefits, but is expected to impact most on those on Jobseekers Allowance.

Conservative support

Under plans laid out in the Green Paper, claimants will have to carry out four weeks' community work once they have been unemployed for more than a year.

After two years, they will be ordered to work full-time in the community.

Incapacity Benefit claimants will all move to the new Employment Support Allowance by 2013, which ministers hope will be regarded, for all but the most disabled people, as a temporary benefit.
People who have been signed off sick will have a new medical check with someone who is not their own GP.

Drug addicts are also being targeted, with the government expecting them to declare their problem and to embark on treatment in return for benefits.

The Conservatives say they will support many of the proposals, effectively neutralising any Labour backbench opposition.

The Liberal Democrats have welcomed some elements of the Green Paper, but are reserving their judgment on whether to support ministers.

Mr Purnell, the work and pensions secretary, says the welfare reforms being proposed will "transform lives".
He told BBC Five Live Breakfast: "People have an obligation to work and the benefit system is not there to give you a choice between benefits and work; it's there to help you when you can't find work.

"If you can find work you should take it, if there isn't work there you should take steps to get back into work."

But people who do not take up the offer of support would lose benefits, said Mr Purnell.

He said the government wanted to get one million people off incapacity benefit by 2015.

But former welfare reform minister Frank Field told the BBC's Today programme he doubted the proposals would make any difference.

Tough choices

"The key fault in the old system is being brought into the new system, and that is if you can get through the employment capacity test... you'll get onto a higher rate of benefit," he said.
As long as people are paid a fair wage for their work, why shouldn't they work for benefits? Peter Hearty, Southend-on-Sea

Mr Field said he had been arguing for 10 years that there should be a single rate of benefit for people of working age who were unable to work. They should be funded via the Disability Living Allowance, not benefits, he said.

"The whole emphasis here, naturally, will be for people not to get jobs but to get onto the higher rate of benefit," he added.

And Labour left-winger Jeremy Corbyn said he was "surprised and disappointed" that the government seemed to be "punishing people for being poor".

In February government welfare adviser David Freud suggested less than a third of the 2.7 million people claiming the benefit were doing so legitimately.

Shadow work and pensions secretary Chris Grayling said: "We very much agree with the package of reforms... it's particularly helpful that they're bringing them forward now because we always expected the reforms to take a couple of years to prepare before being ready to yield results.

"So in reality what this announcement means is that the next government will inherit a set of proposals that have been turned into action and are ready to bring about real change to our welfare state."

'Deep concerns'

Lib Dem work and pensions spokeswoman Jenny Willott said the government's plans "ignore the disincentive to work that our complex benefit system has created".

"The fact that over half of children living in poverty are in working households is largely ignored," she said. "Reforms must ensure that work really pays or we will see poverty levels rising in Britain."

Jon Sparkes, chief executive of the disability charity Scope, said he had "deep concerns about the tone of these reforms and the target-led ethos underpinning them".

He added: "Disabled people face a myriad of barriers in finding employment, including negative attitudes from employers and inadequate social care support.

"Punitive measures against individual disabled claimants will do nothing to remove these barriers."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm
Published: 2008/07/21 13:42:48 GMT
© BBC MMVIII
 
I've been saying for years that those on benefits and are capable, should be doing some sort of community service. I think it's an excellent plan, though labour are bound to f*** it up in their implementation.
 
I thought you already had to see an independent doctor if you had been on incapacity benefit for a certain lengh of time
 
I thought you already had to see an independent doctor if you had been on incapacity benefit for a certain lengh of time

well my son has been at college for 3 years and trying to get his gcses and stuff as he and many other kids was bullied at school so it was government supported

they will not support him on his 4th year and say he needs to either get a job or go to get jobseekers allowance he just wanted to get a skill at something before trying to get a job

my wife is on the sick as she can not work and yes she was sent away to see one of these benefit doctors and she passed as she is ill

now the community jobs that the convicts was doing is ok and i am sure it will make a lot of people unemployed through the scheme as well --- but the target should be under a certain age surely

a few years back for a short time they were forcing people to go on courses and they forced my dad on a IT course for his benefit the trouble is at the age of 62 he will not get a job from trying to teach him a new skill

the highest number is young girls getting pregnant to claim money and get on the free property ladder so its a cash register for them this should also be in there target

i done some volunteer work a while ago and saw how many shop owners children sign on for free money as well as people with £150 per of trainers and the best makes clothes and you can see they are taking the mick compared to those that need the help

so these people will not do the com work so yes this will sort them out for sure
 
I'm not bothered what work they do, so long as they are able and it's productive.

We've turned into a nation of handouts and freebies. Social support is there for people who need it, is it too much to ask for something in return? We're not talking about disabled people going out litter collecting here.
 
What I would like is to be able to earn enough to keep my family in half decent clothes and a local holiday each year and be able to pay the council rent for the concrete box they loan me without having to resort to government prop-ups and hand outs... because as far as I can work out thats slavery ?

How can it be right that a normal joe worker can't even afford the full rent on a council conctrete box ? because not everyone can be a sucessfull entrepreneur, some have to be average, but surely not so low as not to be able to even afford simple council housing without a government prop up.
 
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IMO workfare reduces the unemployed to the same status as convicted minor criminals - the only other group I am aware of forced to do this form of community make work.

workfare is far from the success internationally that new labour or the sun would have you believe - businesses love it - as they can lay off staff and then have them supplied at a fraction of the cost to do the same work - in some cases they actually got paid to take on the same staff as they just laid off.. - at the end of the day workfare doesnt cut unemployment or the benefits bill - because it doesnt provide jobs or training
http://www.socialpolicy.ca/cush/m3/bwkfare1.html
 
Well the binmen around here don't seem capable of picking up litter properly. I've no problem with some benefit claimant getting out there and doing it as well (or instead). I couldn't give a rats arse whether it was skilling them up, it's called paying for their keep, all the better if it skills them up though.
 
sound good dosent it
there will in the future be a 2 tiered system for unemployed/dissabled
wont be as it is now
income suport and incapacity benifit

now i have to ask can i count dosent that make 2???

and it all well and good u all saying make them work for there dole
etc
but ok what we should do is say ok
what we will do all the doleites is make them pick up rubbish off the streets
but let us pay them there income suport for doing this

sounds good but this is what will happen is because the doleites are doing this we wont need and street cleaners so we can make them redundant

what u all have to relise is not everybody on dole
dosent want a job
but they want a job with a wage that they can live on
not just survive
why do ppl stay on the dole
most of the time it is so they get a reasonable income
they get x amount to feed and clothe them and also they get the rent and rates paid

it is a new scam to get ppl to do low paid work
 
and it all well and good u all saying make them work for there dole
etc
but ok what we should do is say ok
what we will do all the doleites is make them pick up rubbish off the streets
but let us pay them there income suport for doing this

sounds good but this is what will happen is because the doleites are doing this we wont need and street cleaners so we can make them redundant

It would be a case of making them cover jobs that current inniefficiencies in the system allow for. i.e. My road is full of shit thats been discarded by ******s, my binmen appear to be incapable of collecting it so why not make some of the dolites round the corner do it.

what u all have to relise is not everybody on dole
dosent want a job
but they want a job with a wage that they can live on
not just survive
why do ppl stay on the dole
most of the time it is so they get a reasonable income
they get x amount to feed and clothe them and also they get the rent and rates paid

Theres a huge amount of work out there for people who are willing to take it, the problem is the pay is deemed too low and so people would prefer to do nothing and pick up as much money. Well they're benefits aren't going to reduce they're just not gonna get away with sitting on their arses.

Let's face it, large numbers of the long-term unemployed have chosen that lifestyle because it's easy. They're not actively seeking work, and if so they have unrealistic expectations about what level of employment they can achieve. Its all well and good saying I can't afford to take a low paid job, fine do some community service instead.
 
makes sense - throw 200,000 binmen out of work - use 300,000 unemployed to do the job (got to be more coz we's thick as shit and bone idle), result - a net saving the cost of refuse collection - if you forget about the 200,000 people we just laid off who are now claiming benefits - maybe they will be one of the lucky ones and be placed on workfare and be forced to empty bins for £65 a week - hey - they might even get a great job as a binman out of it - you can extend this to all non and low skilled jobs - why pay someone the minimium wage or higher if you can get a workfare muppet to do the job for less - and even get paid to take them if you say you will train them - current offer is £50,000 to train someone resulting in at least 18 months employment
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/inside/2008/02/the_governments_drugs_package.html
 
A definate scam to get more unpaid workers and cut current wage bills for local authoritys.

Of course most people will just see the headline and cheer for it (until they are made redundant so the unemployed can do their job cheaper).

A bit like special constables, lowlifes that do a real officers job for expenses so they can feel big in a uniform and steal real officers overtime and reduce the number of real officers.
 
Got a better solution to get the workshy off their arses?
 
Its time this country did something to sort out the work shy and bone idle....But why wait two years get them out there straight away.....

Its too easy to live on benefits and all those who moan that they would get a job but are better off on benefits....obviously they get too much benefits so cut them back....
 
I think we should set up a company to train people to train other people - if we train them for 6 months (paying them JSA + a tenner) and then hire them to train others for lets say an 18 month contract at minimium wage then assumign we could each teach 30 people (role play, positive thinking psychobabble rubbish - the sort of thing used by all these companies) then within 2 years we could all be multi-millonaires - the unemployed would have gained valuable training in how to stiff the governement for 10000 times what they were getting on benefits and everyone - including joe taxpayer (who's been royally shafted out of billions by this enterprise) - is happy

think it cant happen?
it is happening, and has been happening with every compulsorary trainign scheme thats been put in place - maybe not for those amounts - but thats new labour for you - if it gets abused when you offer a £1500 incentive then it will obviously not be if you offer £50000 - but who cares provided they aint on the books come the next election lol
 
Its time this country did something to sort out the work shy and bone idle....But why wait two years get them out there straight away.....

Its too easy to live on benefits and all those who moan that they would get a job but are better off on benefits....obviously they get too much benefits so cut them back....
have u tried excisting on benifits?
 
have u tried excisting on benifits?

lol

my brother gets £60 per week on Dole

£12 on electric
£10 on gas
£35 on shopping

i dont now how he pays his £30 per month water charge but this is
living on the dole
 
have u tried excisting on benifits?

Im currently on benefits and got £130 today... we have 40p left after we got a small amount of food, paid gas + electric pre pay rip off money monsters...!
an paid a few bills (water, tv licence, sewage and some rent)....

Got 3 kids and live on the bread line every week.. yes every week.

Reason I dont work, I was crushed in my car in Jan 2002 by a artic...! and shattered L2 & L3 in my back causing paralysis in my legs. I can walk again now, but am in pain. Yes I could work, but not any job and if I did work at present I be back where I am now in 3 months as I could not keep it up due to not being strong enough at the moment.

INSTEAD im at college now till Dec 08, then off to uni on Feb 09 to train as a Adult nurse...yes male nurse...! will be qualified in 3 years time and will build up my fitness over that time, and no im not entitlled to benefits while at uni so going to be a foooooooooking tough time seeing as there is no money to fall back on... just hope labour aint spent all the coffers before they leave office...!

Im talking control of what I want for my kids, so is the misses... shes also doing this as well, at college with me and going to uni to do adult nursing but at diplomia level..im doing degree level nursing.

end result, the support ive got from the DWP has enabled me to recover and find something I can do... had they put me out on the streets doing bin rounds, painting, cutting grass... id be stuck in a bed still in agony.... "but you wouldnt" I hear you say..... Yes i probley would, as some weeks im in little pain... other weeks I could hardly move.... if i did too much one day, id be in agony the following morning...... the ppl that decide who does and dont work in the community wouldnt see this so would likly just rubber stamp the papers...

I can see this backfiring and more than likely someone suing the govermint for injury LOL !!
 
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