Tram thug who hit man of 97 leaving him blind walks free

[dragonlord003]

if this guy was a psyco then what was he doing amongst the public.............what if this guy raped a child would it still be OK, what if the guy ran around twon with a macheti or samurai sword would that have been OK, what if the guy ran into a local school and went on a rampage would that be OK..............mate either he should have been sectioned under the mental health act or at least given suitable drugs to stop his psychosis.........were is the justice for the old bastard that lost his eye????????

no this guy was not a psycho

a psychopath OR sociopath know full well what they are doing an just don't care they do not have a conscience and tenichaly it is not an illness a such they and there not really any treatment as such it is basicly a personality disorder the like of peter sucliff is a psychopath that's why hes will never get out.

the guy is the news story is suffering from a know medical condition that you can even diagnose with a blood test.

again what he did do in not right

but he is morally and legally really innocent of intent that the bit people fail too be able to comprehend and they have no understanding of Schizophrenia

Schizophrenia is uncurable once it comes on but is treatable thyere if they have done something whill in a acute episode and then are treated and monitered then the danger is removed.
and if it want for the ilness they would not have comited the act in the first place.

whay is this concept so hard for some to understand
both the poor old guy that tragicly got hur and the attacker are both victims of a illness the sentace reflected this

whitch would you rather have this guy locked up for some he had no controll over and released later in the same mental state.

or he be treted and monitored and the danger removed

 

[BoxClever]

how about locked up while being treated so no other old guy can get hurt.

just because he is ill, does not mean he should not be punished.

Box

 

[dragonlord003]

how about locked up while being treated so no other old guy can get hurt.

just because he is ill, does not mean he should not be punished.

Box

the question is what is the point or punishing someone that something that he was made to do

If some holds you at gun point and forse you to commit a crime you are innocent of that crime in law.

some with this can be forced by the illness to do something
IF without the illness they would not have done it in the first place and wont do it after treatment it not punishment its revenge locking them up.

this is why there is diminished responsibility defences in law
they have found him guilty but judged him not responsible as the illness is responsible for this tragedy.


I think you will find he was
this IS guess work as detail missing from story

my guess is when he was arrested there was concern about his mental state and he would have been section for assessment

that it for a period of 28 days under section 2

and he will be assessed and they will begin treating him he may well have been diagnosed before and slipped from the nhs.

the drugs used to treat this kind of disorder do not work strait away
they take two or more weeks too get in there system and stabilised

if more treatment is necessary and they refuse medication or the doctor access them as still a danger too them self or the public then they are further sectioned under section 3

how ever if they are responding to treatment and the willing to come as an out patient and not at that time a danger too there self or anyone else they will be released and watched and supervision as an out patient.

I will strees that the vast majority of those with this illness are just harmless poor tormrnted soles all be sometimes displaying odd behavior.



so as some here can understand this illness more

heres a true story

a family member leaves a paper shop with his mother. as they go out of the shop door a man walk past them and gos into the shop

that ill person suddenly say that man injected me in the arm with something and start panicking

He saw it happen he heard the man say take that he felt the needle go in
and no mater how many people tell him different that what his brain saw heard and felt

later that day his mother call doctor and he is admitted to a mental hospital and diagnose with acute form of the said illness

now a days he is fine and live a relatively normal life apart form the side effects of the drugs he must take for the rest of this life.

before that day he had no illness

now what if that person did not have any family and didn't get to a doctor and get treatment and another day was on his own and believe something like that and attacked the man in the shop

these people are not animals they are people with a terrible illness that torments there mental state

there deserve to be treated just as much as someone with a phisical illness
they did not ask for it no more that someone asks to get cancer.

again what he did is not wright and is is a tragidy but punishing a ill person servs nothing but revenge

ANd if the average man on the street **** understand this concept then there no hope for the human race.

 

[HappyH]

from the knee jerk reaction if seen to this news story here and else where. It amazes me how easily the public are manipulated but the press and I have not seen one post from anyone who seems to understand [SIZE=-1]schizophrenia [/SIZE]at all.

Nowhere in the original post did it mention schizophrenia. You may be correct to chastise the irresponsible journalism but you're being rather harsh on the people (me included) who took the story at face value. Maybe if we were aware the guy was schizophrenic we'd have been more sympathetic.

 

[WEE GORDON]

I was disgusted reading that

 

[dragonlord003]

Nowhere in the original post did it mention schizophrenia. You may be correct to chastise the irresponsible journalism but you're being rather harsh on the people (me included) who took the story at face value. Maybe if we were aware the guy was schizophrenic we'd have been more sympathetic.

"
The court heard Gordon, a paranoid schizophrenic, had tried to push past the victim, who was standing in the aisle leaning on his walking sticks.
As he squeezed under the pensioner’s arms his hat was knocked off and he swore at the man and punched him in the face."

I did point out he was a schizophrenic in my first post. but many still failed to grasp what i was saying
as you have rightly said as usual its irresponsible journalism.

but if the man on the street was not so easily wound up and manipulated by these stupid headlines. society may make some progress.

It may not have been in the original post but the information is in the public domain


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2718156.ece

if you ignore the hedling and dont let it bolie your piss the facts are there


I fail too see Its being too hard on anyone when they refuse to lisen to the full facts after it been pointed out

lets take a guess what hapend guy gets on bus ducks under old man his hat falls is knocks guy hat off he is paranord and think it was deliberate and confused lashs out once not a sistained attack.

as for the pushing past bit they do tend to do this it not a deliberate thing they just seem to trampel on you feet and bump into you and they cant seem to figer out two pepole can ocupie the same space.

the reson this crap wind me up is my half brother suffers from the illness and there so much crap about it and misconception about the illness.

the truth is it sad it was a frail old man he wouldent have targeted the old man as shuch heproberly would have thumped a 7 foot tall black belt if he bumped in to them instead of theold man and then got beeten to apulp

allvitims witch ever way you look at it

Its sertanaly wasent a crime but a tragic acident

but this has been in many forums not just this one and on other it was posted by the original posters that he was a schizophrenia

but the general opinions here and on other forums was very logical
and a sad refextion on the joe public.

 

[storm1]

Why did he feel threatened by the 97 year old man & lash out at him ? Why did he not lash out at the other younger people around ?
As for your statement regarding blood tests show nowt?

The doctor will use one or more verbal screening tests to help determine whether a patient's symptoms meet the criteria for schizophrenia. Because no single symptom is specific to schizophrenia, a diagnosis may be made when one or more of the following conditions is present:

If a patient has at least one active flare-up lasting a month or less. The flare-up consists of at least two characteristic symptoms (such as hallucinations, delusions, evidence of disorganized thinking, and emotional unresponsiveness with a flat speaking tone).
If the patient has particularly bizarre delusions or hallucinations even in the absence of other characteristic symptoms.
If certain symptoms are present for at least 6 months even in the absence of active flare-ups. Such symptoms include marked social withdrawal, peculiar behavior (talking to oneself, severe superstitiousness), vague and incoherent speech, or other indications of disturbed thinking. The patient's social and personal relationships would also have deteriorated since the onset of symptoms.

This thing has put a 97 year once independent man in a dependency care home - while that thing still walks the streets - where is the JUSTICE in that?

 

[storm1]

How is schizophrenia diagnosed? How can I tell if someone has schizophrenia?

There is currently no physical or lab test that can absolutely diagnose schizophrenia - a psychiatrist usually comes to the diagnosis based on clinical symptoms. What physical testing can do is rule out a lot of other conditions (seizure disorders, metabolic disorders, thyroid disfunction, brain tumor, street drug use, etc) that sometimes have similar symptoms.

Current research is evaluating possible physical diagnostic tests (such as a blood test for schizophrenia, special IQ tests for identifying schizophrenia, eye-tracking, brain imaging, 'smell tests', etc), but these are still in trial stages at only a few universities and companies and are not yet widely used. I t will likely be a few years before these on the market, and adopted by hospitals, etc.

People diagnosed with schizophrenia usually experience a combination of positive and negative symptoms. These may include (but are not limited to) racing or uncontrollable thoughts, uncontrollable mannerisms, talking to yourself, paranoia, hallucinations or delusions, sensing that people are following or talking to you, insomnia. The Symptoms and Diagnosis section of this website may help you identify some of your own symptoms, or the symptoms of someone close to you; however, only a psychiatrist can make a diagnosis and start a treatment program. If the symptoms are bothersome, debilitating, or harmful, please make an appointment with your doctor and/or a psychiatrist.

The best places for schizophrenia diagnosis are the new early psychosis and schizophrenia diagnosis and treatment centers that are beginning to be launched worldwide. See our Worldwide list of early psychosis/schizophrenia diagnosis and treatment clinics and contact them if you, or someone you know, may be developing schizophrenia. They have the most intensive testing process and can help get early treatment (which improves changes of a good outcome).

 

[storm1]

Seems to me mate that Yes there are genuine cases out there! And Yes there are the others to who take the P / I for one think that this SCUMBAG ( SMILEY ) is one of the latter!

 

[storm1]

HappyH For Your Info!

A thug who lashed out at a defenceless 97-year-old war veteran leaving him blind in one eye in an unprovoked attack was allowed to walk free from court today on condition he receive psychiatric treatment.

Stephen Gordon, 44, tried to push past Shah Chaudhury as he stood in the aisle of a crowded tram in East Croydon, south London.

But when his hat fell off he turned round and punched Mr Chaudhury, who walks with the aid of two sticks, in the face and called the defenceless elderly passenger a "bastard."

Today, at Croydon Crown Court, Gordon was sentenced to a three year community order which requires him to receive psychiatric treatment.

However, Detectives Sergeant Sam Blackburn, of the British Transport Police officer, said he was disappointed with the sentence.

He said: "This was a particularly nasty attack on an elderly man who was obviously very frail and was physically not able to defend himself.

"The blow to the victim's head caused serious injury which has resulted in the victim losing sight in one eye. Unfortunately since this assault the victim's health has deteriorated and he now resides in a residential care home.

"We are very disappointed with the sentence. We are more disappointed for the family to have been 100 per cent supportive of police action.

"They may now feel that proper closure has not been gained by the community order imposed by the judge today."

Gordon was convicted of causing grievous bodily harm on December 14th last year.

Mr Chaudhury said in a statement that he got on to the crowded tram, but had to stand because nobody would give him a seat.

Because of his unsteadiness he had to grip the rail with both hands, but as pushed past his hat was knocked off.

Gordon then lashed out calling the victim a "bastard" and punched him in the eye.

Mr Chaudhury said: "The driver and the other passengers came to my aid and I was taken to hospital. I had done nothing to provoke him."

After the attack Gordon left the tram at Lebanon Road and was chased by two school children who provided vital evidence in the police investigation.

At the trial Gordon, of Academy Gardens, Croydon, claimed the pensioner had punched him and the CCTV footage which caught him red-handed had been fake.

Sentencing him today, Judge Kenneth Macrae said: "I have no doubt that the route cause of this offence was your illness.

"For whatever reason you were determined to get past this unfortunate victim as he turned out to be. Because of the way he was standing you were slightly impeded.

"Your reaction to that was to turn and lash out at him. It was a single blow but the consequences to this unfortunate gentleman were terrible.

"The prosecution counsel has referred to this as a difficult sentencing exercise.

"At first blush it is not a difficult sentencing exercise, an immediate and significant prison sentence would well be justified. That said it would do nothing to protect the public in the future and my real concern is the public.

"It seems to me that the best way of ensuring that he is not a risk, in relying on various support from psychiatrists and probation officers, I make you the subject of a community order with three years' supervision and a treatment requirement."

Judge Macrae also ordered update reports every four months and reserved any breaches of the sentence to himself

 

[dragonlord003]

Seems to me mate that Yes there are genuine cases out there! And Yes there are the others to who take the P / I for one think that this SCUMBAG ( SMILEY ) is one of the latter!

trust me its not an easy thing to fake m8 IM no expert but because of circumstances.

this guy would have been sectioned and obserbed by experts 24/7

I have a half brother that has

one of my best freinds sudenly ended up section this year and thinks hes a prince now and has been diagnosed with it
hewas perfectly normal all his life untill he mrs dumped him and it came on

my wife suffers from deprestion therefor iv spent quite some time visiting mental heath wards and I can spot those that have it.

Its a lot more comon than you think they belive many pepole have it in them and can live the whole life and it never really trigers

in others it develops

you can grantee that a few pepole that are members of this forum will be diagnosed with it atsome time in there life.

 

[P33 RRV]

look guys this crap goes on all the time, i think the blame should actually fall on our penal system, get the coppers and the judges to sort it out, dungeons for jails and hands off for thieves (apart from cable ones)

but i def dont think as a couple people mentioned that beating up the chap who done this would help, its not up to us unfort

 

[dragonlord003]

HappyH For Your Info!

A thug who lashed out at a defenceless 97-year-old war veteran leaving him blind in one eye in an unprovoked attack was allowed to walk free from court today on condition he receive psychiatric treatment.

Stephen Gordon, 44, tried to push past Shah Chaudhury as he stood in the aisle of a crowded tram in East Croydon, south London.

But when his hat fell off he turned round and punched Mr Chaudhury, who walks with the aid of two sticks, in the face and called the defenceless elderly passenger a "bastard."

Today, at Croydon Crown Court, Gordon was sentenced to a three year community order which requires him to receive psychiatric treatment.

However, Detectives Sergeant Sam Blackburn, of the British Transport Police officer, said he was disappointed with the sentence.

He said: "This was a particularly nasty attack on an elderly man who was obviously very frail and was physically not able to defend himself.

"The blow to the victim's head caused serious injury which has resulted in the victim losing sight in one eye. Unfortunately since this assault the victim's health has deteriorated and he now resides in a residential care home.

"We are very disappointed with the sentence. We are more disappointed for the family to have been 100 per cent supportive of police action.

"They may now feel that proper closure has not been gained by the community order imposed by the judge today."

Gordon was convicted of causing grievous bodily harm on December 14th last year.

Mr Chaudhury said in a statement that he got on to the crowded tram, but had to stand because nobody would give him a seat.

Because of his unsteadiness he had to grip the rail with both hands, but as pushed past his hat was knocked off.

Gordon then lashed out calling the victim a "bastard" and punched him in the eye.

Mr Chaudhury said: "The driver and the other passengers came to my aid and I was taken to hospital. I had done nothing to provoke him."

After the attack Gordon left the tram at Lebanon Road and was chased by two school children who provided vital evidence in the police investigation.

At the trial Gordon, of Academy Gardens, Croydon, claimed the pensioner had punched him and the CCTV footage which caught him red-handed had been fake.

Sentencing him today, Judge Kenneth Macrae said: "I have no doubt that the route cause of this offence was your illness.

"For whatever reason you were determined to get past this unfortunate victim as he turned out to be. Because of the way he was standing you were slightly impeded.

"Your reaction to that was to turn and lash out at him. It was a single blow but the consequences to this unfortunate gentleman were terrible.

"The prosecution counsel has referred to this as a difficult sentencing exercise.

"At first blush it is not a difficult sentencing exercise, an immediate and significant prison sentence would well be justified. That said it would do nothing to protect the public in the future and my real concern is the public.

"It seems to me that the best way of ensuring that he is not a risk, in relying on various support from psychiatrists and probation officers, I make you the subject of a community order with three years' supervision and a treatment requirement."

Judge Macrae also ordered update reports every four months and reserved any breaches of the sentence to himself

storm that is very intrestion m8 really

let me explane the judge in my view was right to pass the sentence he did as like i had said if jail him it would not protect the public as much as treating the man would.

but as some one that see the illness first hand
I firmly believe the judge dose not understand the illness that well


too illustrate my point lets take this statement from the defendant.
"At the trial Gordon, of Academy Gardens, Cordon, claimed the pensioner had punched him and the CCTV footage which caught him red-handed had been fake."

from what i know he could well believe this not that its the truth but that he is not lieing and really truthfully believes this.

to further explain this take my friend who got sectioned this year

he believe that mi5 kidnapped him and stole his real identity.
and his parents are his real parents and he ab sailed down the eiffel tower

when questioned it would be impossible and no person in there right mind would believe a word of.

but no mater what you say too him or what proof you give him you can to convince him hes unwell and its in his head

the reason he got section was that he made a complete nuisance of his self not that he was dangerous to him self or anyone hes just was a pain in the a hole

as he kept going to the police and claiming he was raped, he really believe he was.

and demanding records from social services of his really identity
of course there are no records as its in his head but that don't stop him going down there all the time demanding them.

they got so feed up with the got him sectioned but had to release him because being a pain in the a hole is not a legal reason to section someone.

you can only section them if there present a danger to there selfs or the public

still he wont accept hes ill one day it will get worse and he will be section again and forced to have treatment.

he seem to get worse when hes on his own
that said you got to larth sometime when he in the postoffice sending recorded delivary letters to mi5 and the cia demanding his identity

and comes around to vist with a audio tape of him going to the police and all sorts as he try too prove hes right that he now carriesa dictorphone with him

most of em are as harmless as him
I relly bet this poor guy on the tram was just ill and thort the old guy hit him and knocked his hat of and that the cctv has been faked

and no mater what proof you show them they will not belive you unttill the get the right drugs in them

onece they do then there a new person ushally but the drugs do have some nasty side effects.

IT really sad this guy was my bet freind for years he split from his mrs and i dident see him for a year and when i did he started the weird stuff.

as I ilitration of there mind set one day we were diring some wear on the way he was normmal had a good day out.

on the drive back he thort the invisable lizad men that visit him at night had fourced him to sign a contract with the devil and he was jewish

he was scared shitless and spent 3 hours ring rabbies at sinagogs on his mobile begging for help.

another week he thoort he was a musslim then and even dressed up in all the get up and was walking around like that for a year.

they can get any crazy idear in there heads trust me.

 

[storm1]

dragonlord003 -
Mate I feel for you I really do - as you seem a real / genuine caring person - I for the last 17 years having worked side by side with these human beings + SCUM that I have have & have not had the pleasure to meet - BUT I WONT GO ON ANYMORE AS IT IS SOMETHING VERY PERSONEL TO YOU & I AM SURE IF THE ATTACKED GENTLEMAN WAS KNOWN TO MYSELF OR MY FAMILY IT WOULD BE VERY PERSONEL ". END OF ------------ AS THE THOUGHT OF THE VICTIM NOT BEING ABLE TO GO HOME TO HIS OWN HOME COMPLETELY SICKENS ME!

- BEST REGARDS TO YOU MATE!

 

[dragonlord003]

I can understand how you would feel if the old guy was your family i would probly feel the same.

but Hope I would not bear the guy malase if he realy was ill.

the thing is the law is supose to put personaly feelings a side and use logic.
and shoud not the human race strive to be that way.

I just my view if it due too illness I just can not see the point in locking them up if they can be treated safely outside of a secure hospital.

uless revenge is all that you are looking to gain

I still think thatcare in the comunity is a better option that the old way of lock em up for good as did hapen in the past

but the care in the comunity has to be much better than it is now.
Iv had ocation when my wife due too manic depresstion has not reconised me and had knives and stuff.

and iv not told the doctors and handeled it myself rather that have her sectioned

but hand on heart if she had ever harmed me or even stabed me too death because of the illness

I would not want her punished or harmed in any way only helped.

 

[bignbold3000]

lock the fooker up and throw away the key.........................all respect for the school kids that chased the perp and provided vital evidence in the court case..............and I hope all the innocent bystanders that watched it all happen without trying to stop the mad-man have a long and happy life until they get to 97 (lets says) then I hope something like this never happens to them

 

[FAGAN]

Just a pity your grammar is not on par with your medical expertise Dragonlord003

 

[dragonlord003]

and what does that have to do with the subject?
oh I forgot normal forum etiquette cantthing of anything inteligent to say then play the gramer and speeling police card.

 

[dragonlord003]

do you know I liked digital one of the best forums on the net

but this tread has opened my eyes to the attirudes some of the members here and I dont think Ill be visiting the forum much more.

 

[dont do it it"ll hurt]

do you know I liked digital one of the best forums on the net

but this tread has opened my eyes to the attirudes some of the members here and I dont think Ill be visiting the forum much more.

we all have different opinions m8 if you do not like what some has to say then ignore them i do it all the time
dont cut of your nose to spite your face