topuptv changed encryption! N3
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What a very strange thing for them to do. If it is N3 then I wonder if they are going to send out new firmwares for all the old Ondigital boxes that are still in use because they definately dont presently handle N3.
It would be interesting for somebody out there to have a look at the streamdata and see what they can see. Somebody must have a dvb-t card/dongle/stick.
It would be interesting for somebody out there to have a look at the streamdata and see what they can see. Somebody must have a dvb-t card/dongle/stick.
pinkhelmets
Inactive User
Nagra3 is the same thing as seca3. Kudelski took over mediaguard a few years ago and developed latest encryptions by morphing the best bits with progress. It is backward compatible with old mediaguard hardware as well as old nagra hardware.
Many satellite encryptions that were seca2 were morphed into Nagra2 a year or 2 ago, which is sometimes known as seca3, but infact its hybrid seca~2.5 lol, even though all the cards say nagravision on them. Now nagra2 and seca2 cards are being replaced/upgraded with N3 as all providers each renew their contracts. Its not costing Top-up any extra money (apart from contract renewal).
Many satellite encryptions that were seca2 were morphed into Nagra2 a year or 2 ago, which is sometimes known as seca3, but infact its hybrid seca~2.5 lol, even though all the cards say nagravision on them. Now nagra2 and seca2 cards are being replaced/upgraded with N3 as all providers each renew their contracts. Its not costing Top-up any extra money (apart from contract renewal).
It may be that their contract was up for renewal which may be the reason for the change or they may have been compromised. Whatever the reason Nagra 3 is still very secure at the moment due to Kudelski using a mixture of both encyptions as Pinki stated and I would expect to see a lot of providers changing over to the system in the coming months as its going to be a tough one to hack for the hackers.
Nick [D]vB
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I've been out of the terrestrial loop since I moved house but
I can't believe I completely missed Cardmageddon !!!
I cant get a signal in my new flat, can anyone tell me if they are running two sets of
EMM / ECM streams in parallel like when that PAYGO thing first launched?
I assume their STBs have had an OTA firmware update?
Do normal SECA2 boxes / Aston cam etc still work with cardmageddon cards?
Are the new cards are IO compatible with SECA2, just updated to N3 for internal security?
It would be great if someone could test Poor MAn's CAM with a DVB-T card for me.
Well, never a dull moment. Looks like the cardsharing guide might need an update after all...
8 )
I can't believe I completely missed Cardmageddon !!!
I cant get a signal in my new flat, can anyone tell me if they are running two sets of
EMM / ECM streams in parallel like when that PAYGO thing first launched?
I assume their STBs have had an OTA firmware update?
Do normal SECA2 boxes / Aston cam etc still work with cardmageddon cards?
Are the new cards are IO compatible with SECA2, just updated to N3 for internal security?
It would be great if someone could test Poor MAn's CAM with a DVB-T card for me.
Well, never a dull moment. Looks like the cardsharing guide might need an update after all...
8 )
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pinkhelmets
Inactive User
Nick[D]vB, I'm not an expert with this encryption but I'll answer as I understand it and then if anyone corrects I can learn too .
Top-up-tv also missed cardmaggedon and have directly jumped from Seca2 to N3. Cardmaggedon was the 'in-between' hybrid aka seca2.5/nagra2 that was succesfully tested and implimented other places in europe, but maybe names arent important and perhaps doesnt matter if people in other places use incorrect phrases to explain a change. 'N3' is the current format.
Now as for parallel emm/ecm streams there may possibly be at the moment while they merge from old cards to new completes (this happened elsewhere) but i'm not logging and tbh I dont know if all cards are now new and old ones are all finished? Maybe others can report here. Anyway, at some point the parallel emm/ecm can stop as N3 cards will only require the N3 stream and not a seperate 'seca and nagra'.
Now afaik the cam or firmware is not updated and conditional access hardware remains seca format. It is card security that has amended and now has asic design to super-encrypt/unencrypt. In simple, the stream in seca based format can be used as the medium for the nagra format to flow, to then decrypt before decrypting inside the N3 card, to then give the correct reply to cam.
Seca cams and Nagra cams are both IO and able to read/write with an N3 card.
Just to add, Newcs_1.5 reportedly supports N3 cards so maybe the sharing guide needs to be based around that? I would be interested in some extra experimenting & project development, but i dont have a top-up card and in an area with hardly any signal lol. Hope this is some basic help anyway.
.Top-up-tv also missed cardmaggedon and have directly jumped from Seca2 to N3. Cardmaggedon was the 'in-between' hybrid aka seca2.5/nagra2 that was succesfully tested and implimented other places in europe, but maybe names arent important and perhaps doesnt matter if people in other places use incorrect phrases to explain a change
. 'N3' is the current format.Now as for parallel emm/ecm streams there may possibly be at the moment while they merge from old cards to new completes (this happened elsewhere) but i'm not logging and tbh I dont know if all cards are now new and old ones are all finished? Maybe others can report here. Anyway, at some point the parallel emm/ecm can stop as N3 cards will only require the N3 stream and not a seperate 'seca and nagra'.
Now afaik the cam or firmware is not updated and conditional access hardware remains seca format. It is card security that has amended and now has asic design to super-encrypt/unencrypt. In simple, the stream in seca based format can be used as the medium for the nagra format to flow, to then decrypt before decrypting inside the N3 card, to then give the correct reply to cam.
Seca cams and Nagra cams are both IO and able to read/write with an N3 card.
Just to add, Newcs_1.5 reportedly supports N3 cards so maybe the sharing guide needs to be based around that? I would be interested in some extra experimenting & project development, but i dont have a top-up card and in an area with hardly any signal lol. Hope this is some basic help anyway.
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Seca cam's can only read seca/mediaguard cards and nagra cam's only nagra cards.
The topup tv cam's are still talking in seca/mediaguard dialect to the cards. A cam doesn't care about the internal software at a card.
Btw. the internal name for seca is nagravision france in the kudelski group.
The topup tv cam's are still talking in seca/mediaguard dialect to the cards. A cam doesn't care about the internal software at a card.
Btw. the internal name for seca is nagravision france in the kudelski group.
pinkhelmets
Inactive User
The point here mgb is that the new cards are Nagravision (N3 encrytion) and are being used in a standard Seca cam.
For instance this is the spanish version Nagra card - http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7908/dsc02281fdownmodiy2.jpg
~Fully working in a standard seca cam.
Same as new Top-up cards that are Nagravision N3 smartcard encyrption using seca hardware.
The point is cardmaggedon means caid 0500, seca protocol, seca headers and the data part contains nagra data additionally crypted with seca2 algo.
A cam doesn't care about the data part because its the job of the card to do something with that data..
A cam doesn't care about the data part because its the job of the card to do something with that data..
Nick [D]vB
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Thanks for clearing that up guys.
I thought "Cardmaggedon" was just a slang word for the time when they would introduce the Nagra over SECA hardware system. But if that term is wrong I will remember to stop using it!
It is a good idea to keep compatibility, there is a lot of SECA hardware out there now. If the cards stick to the SECA standard INS then hopefully Phoenix CAMs and cardserver software will still work OK.
I am not interested in the cards internals - that is way beyond my limited knowledge! & I don't like prison food... lol
It might be worth updating the guide anyway because it is very out of date, but I am sure I am still the only one to have used it anyway, lol
I did already mention about NewCS but it is not 100% stable with the season interface clients for STBs, does anyone know of any other season clients for windows?
I looked at Gbox for windows but could never get it to work with season interface. Moscpheo Turbo is good because you can set filters to catch any problem INS that causes the CAM to freeze.
Poor Man's CAM stopped working correctly when the PAYGO service started because of some small bugs with EMM handling, if it needs a small update for this change I am sure Joshyfun can do it for us.
Anyway, I have no signal so I can not test anything now, but I would be interested to know if anyone else is able to test anything.
Thanks again,
Nick
I thought "Cardmaggedon" was just a slang word for the time when they would introduce the Nagra over SECA hardware system. But if that term is wrong I will remember to stop using it!
It is a good idea to keep compatibility, there is a lot of SECA hardware out there now. If the cards stick to the SECA standard INS then hopefully Phoenix CAMs and cardserver software will still work OK.
I am not interested in the cards internals - that is way beyond my limited knowledge! & I don't like prison food... lol
It might be worth updating the guide anyway because it is very out of date, but I am sure I am still the only one to have used it anyway, lol
I did already mention about NewCS but it is not 100% stable with the season interface clients for STBs, does anyone know of any other season clients for windows?
I looked at Gbox for windows but could never get it to work with season interface. Moscpheo Turbo is good because you can set filters to catch any problem INS that causes the CAM to freeze.
Poor Man's CAM stopped working correctly when the PAYGO service started because of some small bugs with EMM handling, if it needs a small update for this change I am sure Joshyfun can do it for us.
Anyway, I have no signal so I can not test anything now, but I would be interested to know if anyone else is able to test anything.
Thanks again,
Nick
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Cardmaggedon is the word for tunneling nagra via seca.
The cam don't know that there are nagra things in use. The card say he i'm a seca card to the cam. The ecm/emm strings are marked for seca.
Btw. there is a typo in my posting above. Caid is 0100 for seca.
The cam don't know that there are nagra things in use. The card say he i'm a seca card to the cam. The ecm/emm strings are marked for seca.
Btw. there is a typo in my posting above. Caid is 0100 for seca.
Nick [D]vB
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It seems PMCAM 2.6 is ok with French providers using Nagra over SECA:
All you have to do is increase the time-outs a bit because ATR is slower on these cards.
It would be good if someone could test it with a new TopUp card to make sure though...
All you have to do is increase the time-outs a bit because ATR is slower on these cards.
It would be good if someone could test it with a new TopUp card to make sure though...
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pinkhelmets
Inactive User
Exactly, i think we are now on the same page
. "Seca=seca and nagra=nagra" is not the case anymore, just as 'betacrypt=betacrypt, nagra1=nagra1' became nagra2 and no longer seperate encryptions. The latest encryption used is N3, which indeed can be tunneled through a seca id and data protocals. That was where i believed your post disagreed with me mgb .Similar threads
