Million middle-class can't afford to buy a house

[oneman]

I had been thinking of suggesting a new forum area for a while...forum rules prohibit my suggested title.

Sorry M8, council house sales date way back before housing benefit.

Are you sure, housing benefit in one form or another has been around from before thatcher era. AFAIK the onus was on the council to provide housing while being centrally funded. Then that moved to be locally managed during thatcher era with emphasis shifting to private landlords.

 

[D 8 RCS]

In reference to the Thatcher Legacies, she is responsible for creating a society with a "Me, Me, Me" attitude and she encouraged people to achieve what they wanted irrespective of who it hurt or harmed.
The consequences have been a totally uncaring nation that is more interested in what new possession can be achieved than whether even members of their own family are coping. Hence we see elderly people left to struggle unaided and contact only being made when they are on their death beds and then and only then do we see the vultures gather at the possibility of gaining some inheritance.
Greed is the main motivation in this country now.
We not longer care about one another, and that is a sorry statement !!

 

[Him Her]

Are you sure, housing benefit in one form or another has been around from before thatcher era. AFAIK the onus was on the council to provide housing while being centrally funded. Then that moved to be locally managed during thatcher era with emphasis shifting to private landlords.

I think you are correct. The 1948 National Assistance Act provided for a rent allowance to householders.

 

[oneman]

In reference to the Thatcher Legacies, she is responsible for creating a society with a "Me, Me, Me" attitude and she encouraged people to achieve what they wanted irrespective of who it hurt or harmed.
The consequences have been a totally uncaring nation that is more interested in what new possession can be achieved than whether even members of their own family are coping. Hence we see elderly people left to struggle unaided and contact only being made when they are on their death beds and then and only then do we see the vultures gather at the possibility of gaining some inheritance.
Greed is the main motivation in this country now.
We not longer care about one another, and that is a sorry statement !!

And before thatcher era you could say that UK was a country with no ambition, happy to live of the empire era, unions in control, poor manufacturing quality, jobs for the boys in public sector jobs that was uncompetitive in a global economy and building a time bomb of not planning for the future of an ageing population.

Even if it wasn't for thatcher, how many people be happy to live in a multi-generation house these days, would you ?

 

[D 8 RCS]

And before thatcher era you could say that UK was a country with no ambition, happy to live of the empire era, unions in control, poor manufacturing quality, jobs for the boys in public sector jobs that was uncompetitive in a global economy and building a time bomb of not planning for the future of an ageing population.

Even if it wasn't for thatcher, how many people be happy to live in a multi-generation house these days, would you ?

Thather decimated the whole of the British Manufacturing Industry and sold off much of Nationalised Industry for one reason and one reason only, to kill off the Unions.
And the reason she wanted to do that was because it was the voice of the working man and he had at last been able to get himself heard, she wanted to make sure the working class knew their place and to make sure that the Businessman got his pound of flesh.
Never mind "jobs for the boys" look at the upper echelons and see the "old school tie" mentality, the uncompetiveness and poor output and quality was down to profits being used for wealth instead of being re-invested in technology and modernisation.
"She was only a Grocer's daughter" was a misinterpretation of the truth, because at that time shop owners were people with money and power.
How many would be happy to live in multi generation hoses these days ? A huge number have to and that number will continue to rise because not only can they not afford to buy their homes they can no longer afford to rent either.
The UK did have ambition back then and the ambition was that the ordinary working man could receive a proper living wage and be able to have a social life as a result of their labours and that had began to happen. But when that was beginning to be achieved greed and higher ambition began to creep in and that was when the working class became a threat and had to be brought back into line.
Britain used to own it's Coal Industry, Steel Industry, the Utilities and Power Industries, Railways and Postal Services, look at them now. Either dead or sold off for coppers and in many cases to foreign countries all for the quick buck instead of investing in them, now that was an example of not planning for the future.

 

[Him Her]

@D 8 RCS you give Thatcher too much flack M8. True, she did some of that but more to pay off the horrifying debt the Country had at the time. ALL of industry was pretty much fooked, the unions carry some blame but so do the management and the politicians. I lived through this era so I don't take my Dad's word for it - quality was crap, the UK expected everyone else to just accept the shoite we exported was good because we were the UK. They figured that one out real fast!

Nope, the real problem lies at the door of the greedy

 

[D 8 RCS]

@D 8 RCS you give Thatcher too much flack M8. True, she did some of that but more to pay off the horrifying debt the Country had at the time. ALL of industry was pretty much fooked, the unions carry some blame but so do the management and the politicians. I lived through this era so I don't take my Dad's word for it - quality was crap, the UK expected everyone else to just accept the shoite we exported was good because we were the UK. They figured that one out real fast!

Nope, the real problem lies at the door of the greedy

I agree with you in that the Unions were also partly to blame as were the management and politicians, I also lived through that era and was in a lower management position at the time but I was also a Union activist and spoke out against both extremes which left me in a bit of a cleft stick.
But, I also feel strongly that Thatcher is predominantly to blame for the demise of National Industry and the tactic of turning working man against working man by instilling the belief of "Me, Me, Me" or Greed by it's other name as an acceptable moral stance.

 

[Donnie Darko]

the whole point of selling off council housing was to get people off housing benefits as it was people offered to people who had been in housing for a long time. The real problem was that council was not allowed to re-invest that money back into housing.[/QUOTE

Your quite correct and the current void of Re investment is being filled by BTL.

 

[oneman]

the whole point of selling off council housing was to get people off housing benefits as it was people offered to people who had been in housing for a long time. The real problem was that council was not allowed to re-invest that money back into housing.[/QUOTE

Your quite correct and the current void of Re investment is being filled by BTL.

I don't have problem with BTL, problem is that council pays to much in rent for sub-standard housing which in turn encourages the rouge landlords.

 

[D 8 RCS]

I don't have problem with BTL, problem is that council pays to much in rent for sub-standard housing which in turn encourages the rouge landlords.

@oneman , as you know I have a different stance to you on BTL but I must agree 100% with you about the Councils paying too much rent for supposed "Emengency Housing" stock that is sub standard from the private sector and in turn encouraging the rogue landlords. As I have been there and lived in that !! However, I also believe for that situation to transpire people in positions have to be in cahoots with those landlords.

 

[Spectre]

There's been a few new developments near me, a certain percentage of these builds are supposed to be affordable starter homes but the whole lot seem to get snapped up by BTL companies pretty fast.

I viewed an older house a few months ago, vendor wanted £60k+ more than he paid four years ago! Someone bought it and paid the asking price.

 

[D 8 RCS]

There's been a few new developments near me, a certain percentage of these builds are supposed to be affordable starter homes but the whole lot seem to get snapped up by BTL companies pretty fast.

I viewed an older house a few months ago, vendor wanted £60k+ more than he paid four years ago! Someone bought it and paid the asking price.

The BTLs appear to be the only ones being offered mortgages, mainly because they already have BTL properties and have income coming in from that and are using that as a Business Plan Example as proof of potential to pay the Mortgage. Couples wanting to buy to live in are being rejected on things like the probability of joint income being reduced if and when the woman becomes pregnant, so what chance have they got ?
The strength of the ability to get Mortgages for BTL was shown on one of the recent Property Programmes on TV when the "Property Developer" was asked how many other properties he had and how long had he been doing it, and he replied he had only been a Property Developer for 18 months and that he now had over 50 properties on his portfolio !!
Now, on paper that must make him a multi, multi millionaire but I wonder how much collateral he really has ? But he is never going to be turned down for a mortgage, and no doubt he will be profiteering at the expense of those who suffer from the plight of the ordinary working man, who when having lost his own property will end up renting from someone like that but then having to pay more rent than he was paying in mortgage payments !

 

[nara]

@D 8 RCS you give Thatcher too much flack M8.

You can never give Thatcher too much flak. :grayno:

 

[Him Her]

You can never give Thatcher too much flak. :grayno:

Bit like Marmite then. Polls over the last few years indicate half the Country disagrees with you M8

Historical rankings of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (academics)

Margaret Thatcher Pips Tony Blair In Prime Minister Poll (Mori)

David Cameron fifth in poll of PMs of past 50 years - UK Politics - UK - The Independent (The Independent)

Sorry, I know about half of you will disagree lol

 

[Him Her]

Oops, double post!

 

[Donnie Darko]

Trouble with BTL is the way its managed by some,professionally its sound.

Its the accidental BTL who cause problems,incidentally i aint a landlord either.

 

[Firemouth]

the whole point of selling off council housing was to get people off housing benefits as it was people offered to people who had been in housing for a long time. The real problem was that council was not allowed to re-invest that money back into housing.

don't know where you got that from. the point of the right to buy was to cripple councils who, at the time, were mainly of a different political persuasion.
this was underlined by the ring fencing of the money so councils could not build house with the revenue.

I think if you treat "rent to buy" owner as a business, requiring them to register as a ltd company.
enforce all capital gains taxes, even if the proceeds are used to buy another property.
put a cap on the rent that land lords can charge benefit claimants. (this will not cause a shortage of housing. as the greedy c?nts [landlords]will have to settle for what's on offer)

as a business they would also have to abide by Health and Safety rules. so ensure that this is enforced.
put caps on the amount rents can be raised, each year.
give tenants a right to tenure after a given period.
force new owners to carry on rental agreements, if a house is sold.

and yes i know this will make rent to buy unpopular, that to me, is job done.
incidentally most of these rules applied prior to the reign of the beast.

 

[Him Her]

don't know where you got that from. the point of the right to buy was to cripple councils who, at the time, were mainly of a different political persuasion.
this was underlined by the ring fencing of the money so councils could not build house with the revenue.

I think if you treat "rent to buy" owner as a business, requiring them to register as a ltd company.
enforce all capital gains taxes, even if the proceeds are used to buy another property.
put a cap on the rent that land lords can charge benefit claimants. (this will not cause a shortage of housing. as the greedy c?nts [landlords]will have to settle for what's on offer)

as a business they would also have to abide by Health and Safety rules. so ensure that this is enforced.
put caps on the amount rents can be raised, each year.
give tenants a right to tenure after a given period.
force new owners to carry on rental agreements, if a house is sold.

and yes i know this will make rent to buy unpopular, that to me, is job done.
incidentally most of these rules applied prior to the reign of the beast.

Whatever it is you're taking can I have some? Since when did a business have to register as 'ltd' and when did it make a difference anyway? FFS, there are limited companies registered every day. If you follow the process you would find the wily ones register a new limited company every year. This allows them to duck under the reporting rules and go bust whenever they feel. Then the new limited company appears.

As for the rest - groans Hello! BTL is already highly regulated - dodgy landlords ignore it. Reputable landlords will ignore the benefits market - there are plenty of people in work to go at. Rent rises for long-term lets are already capped, sitting tenants are already protected.

Oh right, you want someone to GIVE you their house? Dream on.

 

[Frank Zapper]

There are a lot of interesting issues here, I have worked hard with my Missus to buy a place and then watched her brothers buy their Council houses for peanuts and sell for loads - in fact one even got a pay-off as he was in a four bedroom house on his own and they wanted him out!

With regard to the Councils not being able to spend the money on housing, our local Council sold all their housing to a social landlord so it stayed social housing - at least someone had their head screwed on!

 

[Firemouth]

Whatever it is you're taking can I have some? Since when did a business have to register as 'ltd' and when did it make a difference anyway? FFS, there are limited companies registered every day. If you follow the process you would find the wily ones register a new limited company every year. This allows them to duck under the reporting rules and go bust whenever they feel. Then the new limited company appears.

As for the rest - groans Hello! BTL is already highly regulated - dodgy landlords ignore it. Reputable landlords will ignore the benefits market - there are plenty of people in work to go at. Rent rises for long-term lets are already capped, sitting tenants are already protected.

Oh right, you want someone to GIVE you their house? Dream on.

I didn't say Businesses have to register as LTD company's. I SAID BTL SHOULD BE FORCED TO. try reading what I write not what you think i am trying to say!
same goes for the rest of my post.