Sensible Topic Is This a Solution for Britain ?

[D 8 RCS]

Absolute fortunes have been spent on all sorts of Consultations, Commissions, Committees, Advisory Boards and Think Tanks to come up with solutions for the woes of today's Great Britian.
In my opinion there is a single simple solution to numerous of Britain's problems !!
NATIONAL SERVICE !!
If 2 Years National Service were re-introduced it would provide a solution to Youth Unemployment, it would instill a respect for authority that has been lost, it would teach youngsters discipline and give them a work ethic by providing a structure to their daily life and it would also give many a direction for a trade after their service.
If the National Service was compulsory then it would also discourage those wishing to migrate to Britain as a soft option, thus reducing costs to the Benefits System, the National Health Service and the Education System and also increase the Social Housing stock.
Having done their Nation Service the youngsters should return back into civilian life with discipline, respect and a work ethic, so this should also help to prepare for a working life and help reduce crime.
And of course it would provide Britain's dwindling Armed Forces with a boost in numbers; instead of using Territorial Army personnel that have to be taken out of their normal civilian jobs while the do a tour of duty, which puts a strain on the employers who have to cope without their staff during these tours of duty. There would also be those who will find that their National Service is just a taster for a military career.
What do you think ?

 

[oneman]

I thought this was supposed to be sensible chat ?

Who is going to pay for it for a start ? How is it a solution for youth unemployment, when they leave national service what are they going to do ? How is it going to install respect for authority or work ethic ? You do realise that you could actually be sending these people to front line service ?

 

[D 8 RCS]

I thought this was supposed to be sensible chat ?

Who is going to pay for it for a start ? How is it a solution for youth unemployment, when they leave national service what are they going to do ? How is it going to install respect for authority or work ethic ? You do realise that you could actually be sending these people to front line service ?

It is certainly more sensible than the options being implemented at the moment !
Who is going to pay for it ? The same people that are paying for many of the youngsters to sit about doing nothing and/or disrupting local communities with their bad attitudes, disrespect and drug abuse. (I know that not all youngsters are like that and I also know that very little would stop some meddling with drugs but this is a viable option).
Having to do military training will instill discipline and respect for authority and by having to abide by rules and obey orders within a structured day will instill a work ethic, laying in bed playing the X-Box won't !!
As for do I "realise that you could actually be sending these people to front line service ?" Do you realise that is the reason we have Armed Forces ? They are for the protection of the nation, although this and previous governments seem to have forgotten this and utilise them for reasons other than that !
It would also be this reason that would discourage freeloaders that see Britain as a soft touch.

 

[wiz569]

Its a good idea in principle,but would need a lot of thought put into it,but lets not be negative before the discussion has already begun

 

[acricketer]

National service is one of the few places where young people can learn about self-discipline and control as well as equip themselves to be a useful member of society. Schools can't do it, parents don't do it, young offenders institutions simply delay further misdeeds.

They can gain some self esteem, learn about teamwork and have something recognizable as worthwhile to potential employers.

 

[oneman]

Its a good idea in principle,but would need a lot of thought put into it,but lets not be negative before the discussion has already begun

I am being negative because the idea is unworkable. Aside from the political issues of sending people to their deaths who didn't volunteer for it, the country doesn't have the money for it and the country does not need a bigger armed force. The amount paid in benefits is a FRACTION of what it would cost for national service. As for instilling disciple and work ethic. What the country needs is a trained, skilled workforce. Sad to say but go ask people who finish service in the military how they are finding life afterwards. Now you just have a whole generation of kids who still can't get jobs that you just wasted hundreds of billions on.

 

[wiz569]

I am being negative because the idea is unworkable. Aside from the political issues of sending people to their deaths who didn't volunteer for it, the country doesn't have the money for it and the country does not need a bigger armed force. The amount paid in benefits is a FRACTION of what it would cost for national service. As for instilling disciple and work ethic. What the country needs is a trained, skilled workforce. Sad to say but go ask people who finish service in the military how they are finding life afterwards. Now you just have a whole generation of kids who still can't get jobs that you just wasted hundreds of billions on.

Obviously its something that seems to rankle you for some reason,

I'm just an ordinary joe who in reality isn't clued up on how much x costs etc but I thought in principle it was a good idea,
I'm not saying to force people to go to war against their will,In fact I just said lets not get negative before we discussed it,
and now your quoting me as if I'm ready to ship our kids off to war,

Sorry I'm out guys

 

[oneman]

Obviously its something that seems to rankle you for some reason,

I'm just an ordinary joe who in reality isn't clued up on how much x costs etc but I thought in principle it was a good idea,
I'm not saying to force people to go to war against their will,In fact I just said lets not get negative before we discussed it,
and now your quoting me as if I'm ready to ship our kids off to war,

Sorry I'm out guys

As I pointed out, I am not getting negative, just pointing out some of the flaws. Unfortunately there is no easy solution that is going to be politically popular.

 

[Him Her]

As I pointed out, I am not getting negative, just pointing out some of the flaws. Unfortunately there is no easy solution that is going to be politically popular.

True, there isn't, but politically popular is BS anyway. I think it's an excellent idea. Yes it will cost, but the Country will get a lot from it. Front-line people are supported by technicians, mechanics, engineers etc., all of whom get excellent training so they get trained in something they can use in civvy street.

Half the World has enforced conscription, some good, some bad.

As for paying for it - well, you could dump that stupid HS2 project for a start.

 

[D 8 RCS]

As I pointed out, I am not getting negative, just pointing out some of the flaws. Unfortunately there is no easy solution that is going to be politically popular.

But that is also part of the problem "being politically popular" or to put it bluntly "what will lose me the least votes ?"
They are not worried about finding workable solutions they are only worried about votes !
You won't get a trained, skilled workforce while there is a surplus workforce that can be hired and fired at will, National Service would take up a good slice of that surplus workforce and they can be properly train in trades as well as just discipline and the cost of this certainly wouldn't be hugely more than the monies wasted on the the likes of the so called Work Programmes and Jobs Training Programmes such as the £1 Billion Youth Contract Scheme and Work Choice to get Disabled into work where they pay companies to take people on at reduced wages and where those employed get dumped as soon as they can be only to be replaced by yet another "Bonus" unemployed youngster. Money can also be saved by not needing all the "Consultations" to come up with these daft ideas that only line the pockets of those who already have more than enough, all they are doing is looking after their own.
Those finishing military service now are mainly those being pushed out "to save money" and strangely enough most of the cuts aren't made at Officer Level where there would be a larger monitory gain but in the lower ranks, where Territorial's can be easily and cheaply used as short term replacements.
The political issues of "sending people to their deaths who didn't volunteer for it " isn't an issue of National Service but a political issue of how the government utilises the Armed Forces for the security of the nation and that is an entirely different issue........and mis-use of funds.
Many of the decent employers in this country consider those who have been in military service as a preferred choice because they know they will be getting someone who has self esteem, self discipline, teamwork ethos and a work ethic.

 

[Donnie Darko]

Ultimately discipline and manners should come from good parenting,the armed forces are well over budget now,let alone starting something like this.

 

[D 8 RCS]

Ultimately discipline and manners should come from good parenting,the armed forces are well over budget now,let alone starting something like this.

Agreed it should have, but unfortunately that no longer appears to be the case any more.

 

[Him Her]

Ultimately discipline and manners should come from good parenting,the armed forces are well over budget now,let alone starting something like this.

Many parents do not have a whit of discipline so what would they convey to their children?

HS2 is a massive white elephant even before it has started, it's a useless waste of money and £40 billion could be better spent.

 

[Donnie Darko]

I'd be keen to see more apprenticeship schemes,far too many kids leave for uni and achieve average / pointless qualifications and then expect to walk into a job.

For me uni should be for clever kids,its seems any average joe gets a place nowadays.

 

[oneman]

I'd be keen to see more apprenticeship schemes,far too many kids leave for uni and achieve average / pointless qualifications and then expect to walk into a job.

For me uni should be for clever kids,its seems any average joe gets a place nowadays.

uni should not be for 'clever' kids. Should be available for anybody who is willing to apply themselves.

 

[oneman]

But that is also part of the problem "being politically popular" or to put it bluntly "what will lose me the least votes ?"
They are not worried about finding workable solutions they are only worried about votes !
You won't get a trained, skilled workforce while there is a surplus workforce that can be hired and fired at will, National Service would take up a good slice of that surplus workforce and they can be properly train in trades as well as just discipline and the cost of this certainly wouldn't be hugely more than the monies wasted on the the likes of the so called Work Programmes and Jobs Training Programmes such as the £1 Billion Youth Contract Scheme and Work Choice to get Disabled into work where they pay companies to take people on at reduced wages and where those employed get dumped as soon as they can be only to be replaced by yet another "Bonus" unemployed youngster. Money can also be saved by not needing all the "Consultations" to come up with these daft ideas that only line the pockets of those who already have more than enough, all they are doing is looking after their own.
Those finishing military service now are mainly those being pushed out "to save money" and strangely enough most of the cuts aren't made at Officer Level where there would be a larger monitory gain but in the lower ranks, where Territorial's can be easily and cheaply used as short term replacements.
The political issues of "sending people to their deaths who didn't volunteer for it " isn't an issue of National Service but a political issue of how the government utilises the Armed Forces for the security of the nation and that is an entirely different issue........and mis-use of funds.
Many of the decent employers in this country consider those who have been in military service as a preferred choice because they know they will be getting someone who has self esteem, self discipline, teamwork ethos and a work ethic.

Politics may be part of the problem but ultimately unless the public back the idea its not going to happen. Believe it or not, in general they need to keep the public happy which means listening to people sometimes.

As for training the workforce, I totally agree with you but national service is not the way to do it. There are many ways of implementing training schemes. And I am not sure how employers are going to value people coming off national service, its a whole different ball game then those that wanted to be in the military.

Not sure how you plan on utilising these 'servicemen' that doesn't put them in harms way.

 

[Him Her]

uni should not be for 'clever' kids. Should be available for anybody who is willing to apply themselves.

Why? What's the point of 'muppet degrees'? It would be better if there were a range of work opportunities available to satisfy diverse abilities surely?

Not sure how you plan on utilising these 'servicemen' that doesn't put them in harms way.

I've already answered that one - where were you?

 

[oneman]

Why? What's the point of 'muppet degrees'? It would be better if there were a range of work opportunities available to satisfy diverse abilities surely?

Nobody is talking about muppet degree, there are plenty of practical courses at uni that don't require good grades.

I've already answered that one - where were you?

Not looking at your posts obviously :silly: As for what you are saying, there are ways of training up people already today without the expense of national service.

 

[Him Her]

Nobody is talking about muppet degree, there are plenty of practical courses at uni that don't require good grades.

Too many people have been lured into the assumption that a degree is the only path, it isn't. I would hope for a more wide-ranging series of opportunities. Academia should NOT be the only path - or should we just write off those people who are not academically gifted?

...there are ways of training up people already today without the expense of national service.

Of course there are but at the same time a variety of options can only be good surely? As for costs, various figures abound but £20,000 to train a soldier vs £40 billion for a stupid trainset works out at about 2 million people in training? Looks like a good deal to me

 

[darren221980]

I've had this discussion with my other half after watching some tv series (think it was bad lads army or something like that). I think National service should be brought back, however i would only agree with them actually being used for battle if it was to protect our country.