Irish resisting EU bail-out pressure

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The Irish Republic has insisted it does not need European Union assistance amid speculation it is under pressure to use an EU bail-out fund.

Dublin said it was in contact with "international colleagues".

But it dismissed reports that it may approach the European Financial Stability Fund (EFSF) for up to 80bn euros (£68bn; $110bn) as "fiction".

Ireland's difficulties will be discussed by EU finance ministers in Brussels on Tuesday.

However, the BBC's Europe editor Gavin Hewitt said that high-level talks had already begun, involving European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and his economy commissioner Olli Rehn.

"Some EU officials believe it would be better for the Republic to accept a bail-out package now rather than to allow uncertainty to continue," Gavin Hewitt said.

Brussels fears that any delay risks repeating the Greek crisis that earlier this year threatened the entire eurozone, he added.

In May, the EU agreed a 110bn-euros bail-out for Greece.


Some reports suggest that the Republic could seek for help for its banking sector alone, rather than asking for help at a government level.

This, say observers, would allow them to maintain control of the economy, while avoiding the embarrassment of the country being rescued by the EU.

However the EFSF cannot be used to lend directly to banks, said European Central Bank vice president Vitor Constancio.

"The facility lends to governments and then the governments of course may use the money to that purpose in similar lines that exist for Greece," he said.

"The same could be done for Ireland."

The Irish government has all but nationalised the country's banking system, which had lent recklessly to property developers at a cost of 45bn euros.


The price of Irish bonds - essentially IOUs sold by the government to fund state spending - were little changed in early trading on Monday.

The yield on the bonds has soared in recent weeks, indicating that investors believe there is an increased risk of the Republic defaulting on its debt.

And there are concerns that if the EU does not intervene, there could be contagion elsewhere in the eurozone.

" The Irish economy is in desperate straits. No one disputes that ”


Gavin Hewitt BBC Europe editor


Last week, anxiety over the Irish Republic spread quickly in the financial markets to other heavily indebted eurozone nations, including Portugal and Spain, driving up their borrowing costs.

And the shares of banks, including Royal Bank of Scotland, which have exposure to Irish government debt have fallen in the past week.

A spokesman for the Irish finance department said the country was "fully funded till well into 2011".

Meanwhile trade and business minister Batt O'Keefe said the Republic must show it could "stand alone".

"It's been a very hard-won sovereignty for this country and this government is not going to give over that sovereignty to anyone."

However, Jim Power, chief economist at the financial services group Friends First, said that "the reality is Ireland is now becoming a serious source of instability in the eurozone".

"At the EU level, there will be a huge imperative to try and stabilise this thorn in the side and one way of doing that would be to force Ireland to access the EU fund," Mr Power added.

Under procedures agreed in May, a eurozone country has to ask for help in order to trigger a bail-out.

"Unfortunately, for those hoping to either prevent contagion - or to push through new rules regarding the crisis-resolution mechanism - Ireland has shown little interest so far in asking for assistance," said analysts at BNY Mellon.


Since 2008, the Irish Republic has suffered a dramatic collapse of its property market.

House values have fallen between 50% and 60% and bad debts - mainly in the form of loans to developers - have built up in the country's main banks, bringing them to the verge of collapse.

The country has promised the EU it will bring its underlying deficit down from 12% of economic output to 3% by 2014.

Its current deficit is an unprecedented 32% of gross domestic product, if the cost of bad debts in the Irish banking system is included.

The Irish government, which has a flimsy majority in parliament, is expected to publish another draconian budget on 7 December.

This will impose spending cuts or tax rises totalling 6bn euros to bring the deficit down to between 9.5-9.75% next year.

Investors fear the budget cuts are likely to worsen the country's already deep recession, leading to further losses to the government via falling tax revenues and higher benefit payments.

The government's parliamentary majority is likely to be cut to only two on 25 November, when a by-election will be held that the governing Fianna Fail party is likely to lose.

The government had left the Donegal South West seat empty for 17 months but the Republic's second-highest court recently ruled that the delay was unreasonable. Three other by-elections are also required.

BBC News - Irish resisting EU bail-out pressure




i'm a bit confused by this, why would we not want the EU to bail us out? Surely that's why we joined the EU in the first place, so we could help each other out when needed?
 
i'm a bit confused by this, why would we not want the EU to bail us out? Surely that's why we joined the EU in the first place, so we could help each other out when needed?

I'm sure there's some political reason Eva,
but I think its a case of "Pride before the fall" :(
 
i'm a bit confused by this, why would we not want the EU to bail us out? Surely that's why we joined the EU in the first place, so we could help each other out when needed?

Because there will be conditions attached to the loans. Judging by what happened in Greece it will take weeks/months to iron out the details and conditions will invariably involve cuts in public spending. So basically the goverment will handing over some high level control of the budget to the EU which I suspect will not go down well with the voters.
 
Because there will be conditions attached to the loans. Judging by what happened in Greece it will take weeks/months to iron out the details and conditions will invariably involve cuts in public spending. So basically the goverment will handing over some high level control of the budget to the EU which I suspect will not go down well with the voters.

our government are barely hanging on to power anyway, as soon as the byelections are held they are out.

and as for handing over control they did that years ago. even the referendums are a joke, Nice and Lisbon, if they didn't like the result they made us vote again! so what's the difference!
 
Looks like there is increased pressure for Ireland to accept euro loans,

There is also a couple of slides with background to problems for us simple english folk and of course ways in which the UK could be effected.

Eurozone facing 'survival crisis'

Fears have grown that pressure will spread to other weaker eurozone countries Speaking hours before eurozone ministers meet to address threats to the bloc's economic stability, Herman Van Rompuy said that if the euro failed, so too would the EU.

Members such as the Republic of Ireland and Portugal are under fresh scrutiny.

Questions have been raised over whether they can manage their debt without help from EU funds.

Mr Van Rompuy said he was "very confident" the problems could be overcome.

But he added: "We all have to work together in order to survive with the eurozone, because if we don't survive with the eurozone we will not survive with the European Union."

Bond auction

The Irish Republic has insisted it does not need EU help.

But there is intense speculation that both it and Portugal may be forced to use EU bail-out money.
Continues here,

BBC News - Eurozone facing 'survival crisis'
 
Finance Minister Brian Lenihan has said Europe is determined to address the Irish debt crisis with Ireland.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Lenihan said there was determination by the Government to engage in a short and focused consultation with the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund, which will take place in Dublin tomorrow.

He said the IMF was involved because it had more experience than the ECB in dealing with banks which have caused difficulties, and which are at the centre of the Irish debt problem.

Mr Lenihan arrived in Brussels yesterday evening for talks on Ireland's debt crisis with other EU finance ministers, which continue today.

Mr Lenihan said the other EU governments had endorsed the Government's Budget plans and its approach to dealing with the banks.

The Minister said it was only right that institutions that may get involved in providing funds for Ireland to tackle its banking and fiscal crisis should be able to establish the facts on the ground for themselves.

But he said Ireland had not applied for any funding and it was not certain that the country would seek funding from the EU and IMF in the wake of the joint mission.

Earlier, the Chairman of the Eurogroup, Jean-Claude Juncker, said the Irish Government has to make a definite decision on this in the coming days.

Klaus Regling, who heads the European Financial and Stability Fun, said he had toured investors in Asia and the US and said he was confident he could raise money in a matter of days if a country applied for funding.

Britain ready to provide support

Britain stands ready to participate in any eurozone and IMF efforts to rescue Ireland's beleaguered banking sector, Britain's Finance Minister George Osborne said today.

European Commissioner for Economic and Monetary Affairs Olli Rehn also said a potential British role in a bailout was 'under discussion'.

Mr Osborne told reporters ahead of a meeting of EU finance ministers that London, which is not part of the euro zone but is a member of the wider EU, would do 'what is in Britain's national interest'.

'Ireland is our closest neighbour. And it's in Britain's national interest that the Irish economy is successful and we have a stable banking system,' he said. 'So Britain stands ready to support Ireland,' Mr Osborne added.

Europe is 'determined to help' - Lenihan - RT News
 
interesting but overly optimistic i think

Maybe, but I do agree that a lot of negative comments definately effect ability for goverment to borrow. Its like having a run on a bank. Bank might actually be OK but once scaremongering starts then cash flow gets difficult and situation can snowball even though though bank was OK to being with.
 
yeah but the thing is our banks are definitely not ok, there's a huge amount of negative equity here due to the amount of unwise lending that went on during the property boom.

and as for the government, well they don't have a mandate from the electorate and the public have no confidence in them, so the sooner they go the better for everyone.

did you know that the irish taoiseach (prime minister) gets paid more than the president of the united states, or the british prime minister? it's laughable and just shows the contempt they have for the ordinary citizens, the amount of cronyism and corruption and back handers over the years here leave the general population with little faith in any of the policitians.
 
Aside from building/housing I though industry was still doing OK. I know that there is still a fair amount of IT in Ireland with like of Dell, HP, IBM and Google having presense there. Report said exports were increasing though I didn't catch if that was service industries or manufacturing. Also tax income was higher then expected.
 
there have been redundancies in a lot of the big companies, Dell, IBM, Pfizer, Vodafone as well as a lack of funding available for small businesses.

Pfizer job cuts deal blow to recovering Ireland | Reuters

and as for the fall in unemployment, well that's seasonal as college starts again.

rise in taxes, not surprised the amount of tax they currently have on a litre of petrol, we are now paying 1.32 a litre for unleaded :(

Petrol hits record price thanks to Gormley tax - National News, Frontpage - Herald.ie

and as for the increase in exports, well that's more to do with the fall in the value of the euro than anything else
 
EU begins Irish Republic bail-out talks

EU begins Irish Republic bail-out talks

BBC News - EU begins Irish Republic bail-out talks

Olli Rehn described the financial situation in the Irish Republic as "our most pressing challenge of today"

European finance ministers are meeting in Brussels, with the issue of a possible bail-out of the Irish Republic still top of the agenda.

EU finance commissioner Ollie Rehn said on Tuesday plans were being made for a potential rescue programme, should the Irish government ask for help.

As he arrived for the meeting, Mr Rehn said the EU was engaged in "effective" consultation with the Irish government.

British Chancellor George Osborne said the UK was "ready to support Ireland".

There have been reports that the UK is considering offering billions of pounds of direct loans to the Irish Republic.

At the same time, concerns have been raised about the eurozone's bail-out of Greece after Austria said Greece had not fulfilled its obligations under the EU-backed aid package. Austria has yet to submit its December contribution to the bail-out.

This followed the release of figures on Monday showing that Greece's budget deficit was worse than previously thought.

'Strong interconnection'

When asked if the UK should assist the Irish Republic, Mr Rehn said: "That is under discussion and it is natural because the United Kingdom and UK banks have a very significant exposure in Ireland.

"There is a very strong interconnection in the banking sector and the financial system between the two countries."

Mr Osborne said: "We're going to do what is in Britain's national interest.

"Ireland is our closest neighbour and it's in Britain's national interest that the Irish economy is successful and we have a stable banking system," he said, ahead of the meeting of the Economic and Financial Affairs Council (Ecofin).

'Accent on banking'

Tuesday's meeting of eurozone ministers and financial institutions in Brussels came against a background of renewed financial market turmoil.

At the centre of this has been the markets' fear that the governments of the weaker eurozone countries - particularly the Irish Republic - cannot afford to repay their huge debts.

Mr Rehn said that "the Irish authorities are committed to working" with the EU, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund to calm market turmoil.

“If Ireland is fundamentally incapable of paying off all it owes... some will say it is grotesquely unfair that the cost should fall entirely on taxpayers in Ireland, the EU and (if IMF money is drawn) the rest of the world”



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He told reporters that potential rescue plans would have an "accent on restructuring its banking sector".

A statement issued after the meeting praised the Republic of Ireland's efforts to combat its problems: "The Eurogroup welcomes the significant efforts of Ireland to deal with the challenges it faces in the budgetary, competitiveness and financial sector areas."

The statement said the Irish government would engage in a "short and focused consultation" with the Commission, the ECB and the IMF in order to determine the best way to provide any necessary support.

It concluded by adding "We confirm that we will take determined and co-ordinated action to safeguard the financial stability of the euro area, if needed, and that we have the means available to do so".

The IMF welcomed the Republic of Ireland's decision to allow a "short and focused consultation" to decide if the country needs a budget bailout.

Mr Rehn called the Irish Republic the most pressing challenge of today, adding that there was "an intensification of preparations of a potential programme in case it is requested" but the meeting proposed no concrete course of action.

'No support'

The Irish government has repeatedly denied that it is seeking outside support.

“They convey an image of Ireland totally at odds with the reality of a country that last week was voted by the UN human development index as the world's 5th most desirable place to live ”

Marc Coleman
Irish economics commentator

On Tuesday, Prime Minister Brian Cowen told parliament that he had not asked for bail-out money and that the Irish economy was well funded until next year.

He said his country was working with European partners to deal with the debt issue, but that his country was neither "immune or unique" amid the recent economic crisis.

Irish finance minister Brian Lenihan said European authorities had welcomed the steps taken to date by the Irish government.

"What they are saying and what we are saying, what all the finance ministers are saying, is that we have to work together to resolve these market difficulties," he said.

Earlier, Mr Rehn warned that Europe must "resist alarmism" amid the latest fears over Irish debts.

Mr Rehn, speaking after the talks had finished, said the EU would, however, step up work on support for the Republic "with an accent" on its banks.
 
Viewpoint: Ireland's robust economy knocked off course

Viewpoint: Ireland's robust economy knocked off course

BBC News - Viewpoint: Ireland's robust economy knocked off course

Vanderlei de Lima of Brazil was attacked in the closing stages of the Athens Olympics

Watching the ongoing coverage of Ireland's bail-out crisis, I now know how Vanderlei de Lima must have felt.

You don't remember Vanderlei de Lima?

His is a story that captures the Irish Republic's current situation as well as any other. And there is an Irishman involved too.

The place was Athens, 29 August 2004, and the Brazilian de Lima was leading the field in the Olympic marathon.

After a gruelling 35km (22 miles), de Lima had just 5km left to run with an excellent chance of winning when, bizarrely and out of nowhere, an eccentric and defrocked priest by the name of Father Niall Horan ran out from the crowds and pushed de Lima into the spectators.

The event gained notoriety around the world and Horan emerged as a contestant on Britain's Got Talent last year.

De Lima recovered and went on to finish the marathon, coming third instead of first.

For the Irish economy, the past two years have been a combination of a marathon and a gruelling assault course.

Getting to grips

Of course, the government has made mistakes.

But, compared with other governments, most notably Gordon Brown's Labour government, Ireland started getting to grips with its budgetary crisis early, implementing two emergency budgets in October 2008 and April 2009, followed by a budget last December in which public pay was cut.


Irish Finance Minister Brian Lenihan delivered two emergency budgets in 2008 and 2009 By a magnitude of 5% of GDP, Ireland has achieved more correction in its budget, in relative terms, than most EU countries put together.

Our debt level is, when you account for a pensions reserve fund, actually still lower than Britain's and this despite a decade of massive infrastructure investment.

Sadly, speculation - justified but overdone - that Ireland's bank bail-out costs would escalate beyond the state's ability to meet them has knocked us off balance.

Badly affected by a property bubble that burst, the estimated cost has been regarded by bond markets as a sign of the state of our economy and a burden that the government cannot bear.

It is no such thing.

Sure, the bail-out is a drag on our fiscal future. But its current estimate - which reports say has been borne out by scrutiny from EU and ECB officials - is around 35bn euros (£30bn; $47bn).

If spread over 10 years - and even if this rises - the annual cost is at or below half of what we spent each year on infrastructure investment.

Painful yes. Fatal no.

Healthy surpluses

As for the current state of the economy - the majority not constituted by the property market - exports rose by 7.8% in August, manufacturing output was up 12% in September, unemployment fell for the second month in a row in October and tax revenues overshot expectations in the same month.


Remarks by the German chancellor served to increase borrowing costs for the Irish Republic And, unlike Greece, Portugal and Spain, Ireland is heading for healthy balance of payments surpluses in coming years.

And did I mention that US investment in Ireland exceeds US investment in Brazil, Russia, India and China put together?

Unfortunately the Irish government has, as George W Bush might say, "misunderestimated" the early extent of bank losses, allowing doubt to emerge about its full extent.

Nor has the German government helped a whole bunch by appearing to threaten holders of sovereign bonds with "haircuts" [asset value reductions], another Bush-style miscommunication only clarified after last Friday's G20 summit.

Donkeys

Not that the media have been a great help either.


Media have conveyed an image "totally at odds" with Ireland's reality Images of people riding on donkeys or begging, together with one-sided dramatised narratives about young people leaving the country (our population has continued to grow well into the recession) may boost viewership, listenership and readership figures.

But they convey an image of Ireland totally at odds with the reality of a country that last week was voted by the UN human development index as the world's 5th most desirable place to live.

The UK was - sorry to point this out - 26th. Our GDP per capita remains 30% above the EU average and well above Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

And, unlike France, we are a country where - without riots - we can create agreement between our political parties on the need to get our house in order.

Where do we go from here?

While government and media have played a role, Ireland's current crisis is fundamentally made up of two interacting components - a fiscal crisis and a banking crisis.

We were three weeks away from solving the former by ourselves when doubts about the latter - the proverbial "Father Niall Horan" in this story - hit us for six.

Humiliating

Resorting to a bail-out in relation to our banking crisis might look like a smart move: big sister Angela facing down banks that her little Irish brother is too weak to.

But the damage to Ireland's reputation and the euro would be humbling, at the very least.

An excessive bail-out - one targeted at both our public debt crisis and banking crisis - could be more than humbling.

For a nation that had run so long and so hard to win this race, it would be humiliating.

A year ago, such an event would not have brought Ireland closer to the UK: then-Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy's reference to Ireland as part of an "arc of insolvency" had created too much bad blood.

David Cameron's government is a different affair.

Ireland will never leave the euro (at least as long as it exists).

But this week's events could result in Ireland taking a more cautious view of Europe, and a more positive view of Britain, in the future.
 
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