Government and councils to spy on ALL our phones

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Big Brother Britain: Government and councils to spy on ALL our phones

By JASON LEWIS - More by this author »
Last updated at 17:50pm on 30th September 2007

Officials from the top of Government to lowly council officers will be given unprecedented powers to access details of every phone call in Britain under laws coming into force tomorrow.


The new rules compel phone companies to retain information, however private, about all landline and mobile calls, and make them available to some 795 public bodies and quangos.

The move, enacted by the personal decree of Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, will give police and security services a right they have long demanded: to delve at will into the phone records of British citizens and businesses.

But the same powers will also be handed to the tax authorities, 475 local councils, and a host of other organisations, including the Food Standards Agency, the Department of Health, the Immigration Service, the Gaming Board and the Charity Commission. The initiative, formulated in the wake of the Madrid and London terrorist attacks

of 2004 and 2005, was put forward as a vital tool in the fight against terrorism. However, civil liberties campaigners say the new powers amount to a 'free for all' for the State snooping on its citizens.

And they angrily questioned why the records were being made available to so many organisations. Similar provisions are being brought in across Europe, but under much tighter regulation. In Britain, say critics, private and sensitive information will inevitably fall into the wrong hands.

Records will detail precisely what calls are made, their time and duration, and the name and address of the registered user of the phone.

The files will even reveal where people are when they made mobile phone calls. By knowing which mast transmitted the signal, officials will be able to pinpoint the source of a call to within a few feet. This can even be used to track someone's route if, for example, they make a call from a moving car.

Files will also be kept on the sending and receipt of text messages.

By 2009 the Government plans to extend the rules to cover internet use: the websites we have visited, the people we have emailed and phone calls made over the net.

The new laws will make it a legal requirement for phone companies to keep records for at least a year, and to make them available to the authorities. Until now, companies have been reluctant to allow unfettered access to their files, citing data protection laws, although they have had a voluntary arrangement with law enforcement agencies since 2003.

Many of the organisations granted access to the records already have systems allowing them to search phone-call databases over a computer link without needing staff at the phone company to intervene.

Police requests for phone records will need the approval of a superintendent or inspector, while council officials must get permission from the authority's assistant chief officer. Thousands of staff in other agencies will be legally entitled to retrieve the records once the request is approved by a senior official.

The new measures were implemented after the Home Secretary signed a 'statutory instrument' on July 26. The process allows the Government to alter laws without a full act of Parliament.

The move was nodded through the House of Lords two days earlier without a debate.

It puts into UK law a European Directive aimed at the 'investigation, detection and prosecution of serious crime'. But the British law allows the information to be used much more widely to combat all crimes, however minor.

The huge number of organisations allowed to access this data was attacked by Liberty, the civil liberties campaign group. Other organisations allowed to see the data include the Royal Navy Regulating Branch, the Atomic Energy Authority Constabulary, the Department of Trade and Industry, NHS Trusts, ambulance and fire services, the Department of Transport and the Department for the Environment.

A spokesman for Liberty said: 'Hundreds of bodies have been given the power to look at this highly sensitive information. It is yet another example of how greater and greater access is being given to information on our movements with little debate and little public accountability.

'It is a free for all. There is a lack of oversight of how and why public bodies are using these records. There is no public record of what they are using this information for.'

Tony Bunyan, of civil liberties group Statewatch, said: 'The retention of everyone's communications data is a momentous decision, one that should not be slipped through Parliament without anyone noticing.'

Last year, the voluntary arrangement allowed 439,000 searches of phone records. But the Government brought in legislation because the industry did not routinely keep all the information it wanted.

Different authorities will have different levels of access to the systems. Police and intelligence services will be able to see more detailed information than local authorities. And officials at NHS Trusts and ambulance and fire services can obtain the records only in rare cases when, for example, they are trying to save a patient's life.

The new system will be overseen by the Interception of Communications Commissioner, who also ensures security and intelligence services' phone taps are legal.

The commissioner, Sir Paul Kennedy, reports to the Prime Minister and already carries out random inspections of some agencies legally allowed to see phone records under the existing voluntary scheme. Last year inspectors visited 22 councils already making 'significant' use of their powers' to access phone records. A report said the results were 'variable', but within the law.

Privacy watchdog the Information Commissioner, which has responsibly for protecting personal information and policing the Data Protection Act had virtually no role in the new laws.

A spokeswoman said its only function was to ensure 'data security' at the phone companies, adding: 'We have no oversight role over the release of this information.'

The Home Office said there were safeguards to ensure the new law was being used properly. Every authority had a nominated senior member of staff who was legally responsible for the use the phone data was put to, 'the integrity of the process' and for 'reporting errors'.

A spokesman said: 'The most detailed level of data can be accessed only by law enforcement agencies such as the police. More basic access is available to local authority bodies such as trading standards and environmental health who can only use these powers to prevent and detect crime.'

A spokesman for the Local Government Association, which represents councils across England and Wales, said: 'Councils would only use these powers in circumstances such as benefit fraud, when the taxpayer is being ripped off for many thousands of pounds.'

He added that it was 'very unlikely' the powers would be used against non-payers of council tax or for parking fines 'as the sums involved are not sufficient to justify the use of this sort of information or the costs involved in applying it'.
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source:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=484752&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

more treason, we need a new guy-falks here.
get the rope for a mass hanging too.
 
The initiative, formulated in the wake of the Madrid and London terrorist attacks

wot a crock of f**ing shit

Anything to take away personal freedoms

oh well sims are easy enough to get .............
 
i changed my mind about the rope, it's too fast for them.
now they all need to be dealt with south-african style - burning car tyre filled with petrol.

we will never know who accesses this data or why, but if i'm ever confronted by a log of calls by anybody but the police i'm gonna wipe them out.
(and i dont mean the logs)
:Kickassro
 
blame the terroists AGAIN and pass any law you see fit based on that.

anyone see a similarity between the uk and usa? install fear (self inflicted some might say? boom boom boom) and take away the publics freedoms because of "so called" terrorists.


funny how this is a new thing isnt it, we all seemed to be alright against other threats throughout the decades without these freedom taking laws.


heil bush/brown!!! mein furher!! beware if your not blond with blue eyes your for it next, you,ll be dubbed a national threat and a possible "terrorist" and you,ll be off for a nice shower courtesy of the goverment.
 
blame the terroists AGAIN and pass any law you see fit based on that.

anyone see a similarity between the uk and usa? install fear (self inflicted some might say? boom boom boom) and take away the publics freedoms because of "so called" terrorists.


funny how this is a new thing isnt it, we all seemed to be alright against other threats throughout the decades without these freedom taking laws.


heil bush/brown!!! mein furher!! beware if your not blond with blue eyes your for it next, you,ll be dubbed a national threat and a possible "terrorist" and you,ll be off for a nice shower courtesy of the goverment.

well said mate! well said!

self inflicted is deffinetely the right word! its obvious what the US and the USA are trying to do!
 
sigh, this is only about phone records - with this level of detail it can be easily proved you were not guilty of comitting a crime as well as prove your guilt.

The goverment will not actually know what you say in your calls.

I dont care if the police want to check up on when I called my mum last if it means real criminals are dealt with.
 
sigh, this is only about phone records - with this level of detail it can be easily proved you were not guilty of comitting a crime as well as prove your guilt.

The goverment will not actually know what you say in your calls.

I dont care if the police want to check up on when I called my mum last if it means real criminals are dealt with.


never the less its still another one chalked up for the goverment, one day you will wake up from saying oh its ok only to find that all your freedoms are gone.

pass one at a time and eventually look back and see how many are gone.

regardless of what you think they will use them for you can bet they will use them for other reasons,

think usa, terroists can be arrested without charge and kept locked up with no charges, did the us goverment use this for real terrorists? no they locked up people who demontrated against the goverment and the what they call cults, locked them up under the terrorism act.

freedoms away no matter how you look at it and i guarantee it,ll be used for more than prooving guilt or not of a criminal.

some day people will wake up and not believe all the shit the goverment spout as gospel, end of story, it benfits them when they see fit to imply the "law" in other ways.

and is there any need for your distaste to other comments by putting a "sigh" at the beginning of your post?
 
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and is there any need for your distaste to other comments by putting a "sigh" at the beginning of your post?

the sigh was there because, this is the government actually trying to do something to help combat crime and terrorism. I truly do not beleive that it will be used for anything other than keeping tabs on naughty people.

I know that in europe we are the most scrutinised of countries - but think about it a bit, how many terror plots have been foiled by the security services from spying on the populace? I would imagine a few more than from intelligence officers doing any investigation.

Now, I dont want to rain on the paraniod parade - I know how that chafes some people here. All I am saying is that, when you look at it, these new powers allow the government to see when and who we called - not what we said. In my mind that means I dont loose anything, afterall in the day of mobile communications people can see us communicating wherever we go - and without special legaslative powers.

Up until recently, the American government ran a monitoring program that snooped on all the im chats, emails and forum posts that were made on the Internet. The only reason it was canned was due to the fact there was so much info to go through and so little people to go through it. However, the program didnt just monitor Americans - but all of us. I think the point I am trying to make here is that even if the government did decide to watch all the calls we make - who would be there to go through all the data?
 
its pure p**h... they are doing all this in the name of fighting terrorists... putting up taxes on flights and other things in the name of global warming.. ever thought how much tax we pay in our every day life..

council tax, road tax, car insurance, MOT etc etc

guess its not pure magic afterall... what worries me is that public doesnay do anything..
 
paraniod brain, that aimed at me is it?

your veiws of this country and my veiws are miles apart, people like you are the reason this country is in the state it is, just happy for this law to come in and that law to come in without a thought. if this was france we would be rioting now, over there it is as it should be, the goverments are scared of the people but over here too many sit and do nothing and let it go, the goverment is laughing its arse off over here because it knows it can do what it wants and no ones going to do anything about it.

remember the poll tax? the one time in recent history i can remember it kicking off, what happened? people power won the day and it was gone,

we need more action over here and less letting it go because it wont affect me attitudes.

not for one second did i say it wouldnt catch criminals either, dont think that i think its just a reason for the goverment to spy on me (im not paraniod), but with everyone of these passed it will eventually effect me or others. would i see it scapped so criminals get away? yes,why?.. because the real threats the goverment know who they are and are already monitoring them, and as you say if there not listening but only logging when and where a call was made what is the point in it? theres more to it believe me, what good are logs without listening? they already bug the know threats and log and listen to there calls, thats where the plot are captured, how you going to capture a criminal or worse a terrorist with logs? oh i know mr abdul who happens to nbe a muslim rings a warehouse for some immonia, end result he,ll get raided on suspsion of being a terrorist,or mr angry anti rings for some nails and a couple of plastic containers, he too will be raided for suspected bomb making you tell me that wont happen..and both the examples could be gulit free but that wont matter when there getting there doors kicked in, still believe it wont affect anyone? maybe not you but it will affect other, there,ll be trigger numbers like the software which used trigger words on the net, dont for a second believe its all above board hell this goverment lies to our face on day to day things, christ knows what else they get up to.
 
OK, the paranoid thing wasnt aimed at you for starters.

We already have laws in place to protect our freedom and our personal information - this is a fact.

If you read the article mask mentions, you can see that the government will only have access to phone records for up to one year. if I may quote masks post:

The new laws will make it a legal requirement for phone companies to keep records for at least a year, and to make them available to the authorities. Until now, companies have been reluctant to allow unfettered access to their files, citing data protection laws, although they have had a voluntary arrangement with law enforcement agencies since 2003.

So it doesnt look like they will actually be listening to the things we say.

Whilst my posts here may annoy you, I can assure you that 'people like me' are not making the country the way it is. As this is outside of the topic of this thread, feel free to pm me with any of your thoughts.

To prevent this thread from becoming another point scoring exercise - can I ask that we stay on topic?
 
and you actually believe this?the laws might be there,but if the government wanted to know anything about you,do you really think this law would stop them.
We already have laws in place to protect our freedom and our personal information - this is a fact.
 
and you actually believe this?the laws might be there,but if the government wanted to know anything about you,do you really think this law would stop them.

to be honest, no - but if it came down to them doing this then there would be a reason. Such as me being a drug dealer, arms trader, terrorist or whatever.

Why would they waste time looking at who I called and all my other personal info? To be honest, it would be just plain boring.

Plus, if they really wanted to find out more about me, they could just read the posts I make on the internet...
 
aint no point scoring going on here, i believe people like you (not personal) sit back and allow these things to pass, if more people stood up to be counted in general this country would be better for it.


regardless of whether you think you annoy me i can assure you' you dont.


also regardless of what is argued or not the point of the thread is that they are (regardless of what they do with it) taking something else away from the britsh people, why should they be allowed to take any freedoms from anyone for there own means.

funny how we cant play the race card or incite human rights when it comes to us being shafted,
 
aint no point scoring going on here, i believe people like you (not personal) sit back and allow these things to pass, if more people stood up to be counted in general this country would be better for it.QUOTE]

I just dont get that comment? I am going to go off topic for a second.

How can it be "people like me" who dont do anything? I was one of the 61.3% who voted in the last general election as well as part of the 70% turn out for the 2007 scottish elections. I placed my vote for who I thought was best, and no - I didnt vote for the same parties across the board, but for the ones I thought would do a good job.

I dont honestly know what people could do, if they wanted, to prevent laws from being passed - after all its the government we voted for. If we want something to change, we need to vote for it.

I know so many people who whinge about the government - but dont actually vote. If you are really upset about the this, then when it comes to election time I would advise to put that cross next to the party who wont do this...
 
i dont mean who you voted for, what i mean is like the poll tax revolution, people need to stand up and say no! instead of thinking its ok to let them pass these laws.


you say what can we do we voted them in, correct WE put them there they WORK for us WE are the bosses there suppose to do whats best for the people but from what i see they do there best to screw the people.

they need to fear us and they dont because people dont/wont stand up and be counted, instead they just say oh its ok it wont affect me.
 
I dont remember much about the poll tax - too young.

All I know is that we have the council tax now.

As for fear, why should the government fear us?? We could end up being just as bad if we dont communicate properly...
 
why should they fear us? because we are the people, this is our country,

they need to fear the people or they get away with blue murder. you think they would give us id cards if we all said no? you think they would join europe if we all said no?

if we stood up for what we want and not what serves them best they wouldnt do it.

goverments across the world need to fear there people, there not rulers they are elected politicians,

but instead of them fearing us they make us fear them and use this fear to pass any law they see fit and use any excuse they can find to justify it,
 
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