Sensible Topic George Osbourne tax cheat

[trevortron]

I've never mentioned plant, you must be confusing me with someone else.

I was talking generally about how serious tax avoidance seems to be acheivable only by those who have least need of it.

"Greed is Good" seems to be the current Tory war cry.

"Greed is Good" has always been the Tories' war cry.

 

[casuk]

All trade should be taxed in the country they were traded no shifting profits to low tax pay country's, its wrong no mater what way its made legal, these same company's/people want protection, subsidiarys, tax breaks, planning, ect ect when they need it but don't pay their far share into the system,

 

[Tejas]

Hi All

To add my two pence to this conversation, In the current system (monetary) if you sell goods or services in the country you should have to pay tax in that country, Basically a buy and sell tax. you pay tax if you buy, and tax if you sell.

The system is faulty as its based on making money though debt. So if every person in the world had no debt, then there wouldn't be any money in circulation.

We need to shift humanity to a resource based system and i'm not talking about communism.

:Cheers:

 

[Bronto]

It is confusing to say the least

There is a simpler way to understand all things in life, not just money or taxes, and it is this - There are the people that have, and there are the people that have not - This has been, and will always be the way of life

If things don't change they'll stay the same

 

[Tejas]

Lol you my friend should be a politician. I do actually agree with what you have said.

 

[nara]

It is confusing to say the least

There is a simpler way to understand all things in life, not just money or taxes, and it is this - There are the people that have, and there are the people that have not - This has been, and will always be the way of life

If things don't change they'll stay the same

I'm beginning to suspect that you're a Tory Bronto. :Laugh:

 

[Bronto]

I'm beginning to suspect that you're a Tory Bronto. :Laugh:

You know what nara m8, I grew up on a council estate in Brixton, South London, We had very little, I was brought up to hate the Tories, my Dad was high ranked in the union in he's day, but as I've got older and earned more and got different properties etc. I must admit I have found myself leaning a little more to the Right

My Dad is 89 bless him and I would not dare vote Tory while he is still alive (or at least not let him know lol )

 

[bamber]

I've never mentioned plant, you must be confusing me with someone else.

I was talking generally about how serious tax avoidance seems to be acheivable only by those who have least need of it.

"Greed is Good" seems to be the current Tory war cry.

But you were responding to my answer to someone else's comment on the subject of capital allowances on plant.

 

[nara]

But you were responding to my answer to someone else's comment on the subject of capital allowances on plant.

Nope, I still think you're confused. Your answer, to which you refer, following back to its original source, was to countryboy(post #10) who never mentioned plant either.

What's new a corrupt politician. Word it anyway you want it still done to avoid paying tax

 

[bamber]

Nope, I still think you're confused. Your answer, to which you refer, following back to its original source, was to countryboy(post #10) who never mentioned plant either.

...and he was referring back to my post #7.

 

[D 8 RCS]

A loophole is an unintended consequence of the law, brought about by bad drafting. What is being done here is exactly what the law intended, so cannot be called a loophole.

So to quote the last sentence of my last post
"It can be dressed up in many ways and despite whatever Bamber wants to label it; it is Tax Avoidance, albeit having been deemed legal because of what are effectively get out clauses available only to some people."
And that to me is a loophole.

 

[bamber]

So to quote the last sentence of my last post
"It can be dressed up in many ways and despite whatever Bamber wants to label it; it is Tax Avoidance, albeit having been deemed legal because of what are effectively get out clauses available only to some people."
And that to me is a loophole.

Type "loophole" into Google and this is the first definition which comes up:

an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.
"they exploited tax loopholes"

Therefore, when the law is used in the way it was intended to work, it is not a loophole.

 

[D 8 RCS]

Type "loophole" into Google and this is the first definition which comes up:

an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.
"they exploited tax loopholes"

Therefore, when the law is used in the way it was intended to work, it is not a loophole.

Like wise with get out clause or escape clause which is "a ​part of an ​agreement that ​allows someone to ​avoid doing something that they ​normally would have to do"
A synonym of that is a "technicality" or a "loophole"

 

[bamber]

Like wise with get out clause or escape clause which is "a ​part of an ​agreement that ​allows someone to ​avoid doing something that they ​normally would have to do"
A synonym of that is a "technicality" or a "loophole"

A get-out clause is not a synonym of loophole, because the former is deliberately included whereas the latter is an unintended consequence. You must not stray into Looking-Glass World:

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they're the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"

 

[D 8 RCS]

A get-out clause is not a synonym of loophole, because the former is deliberately included whereas the latter is an unintended consequence. You must not stray into Looking-Glass World:

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they're the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"

I think it may be you who is straying into the land of make believe
As you subscribed to before Google which brings up Thesaurus.com and lists ::


Synonyms for escape clause

noun : legal provision to get out of a contract


clause escalator clause escape hatch escapeway
fine print hole to creep out of loophole saving clause
technicality way of escape

 

[bamber]

I think it may be you who is straying into the land of make believe
As you subscribed to before Google which brings up Thesaurus.com and lists ::


Synonyms for escape clause

noun : legal provision to get out of a contract


clause escalator clause escape hatch escapeway
fine print hole to creep out of loophole saving clause
technicality way of escape

That broad list just shows how a thesaurus lists words with close or related meanings, not just exact synonyms. If they all meant exactly the same thing, as you claim, then a contract could have an "escape hatch" which is an interesting concept. In the context of anything written, an escape clause is something deliberately included, whereas a loophole is something unintended, so the two are not the same.

 

[countryboy]

I don't think anyone with any moral integrity would deny what he is doing is wrong. One rule for the rich another for the poor

 

[bamber]

I don't think anyone with any moral integrity would deny what he is doing is wrong. One rule for the rich another for the poor

If by "he" you mean George Osborne, then he has done nothing at all. As I pointed out in post #3 , his interest in the family company is so small that he cannot have any influence over what it does. So, whatever you think of the company's actions, there is no justification in blaming George Osborne.

 

[D 8 RCS]

That broad list just shows how a thesaurus lists words with close or related meanings, not just exact synonyms. If they all meant exactly the same thing, as you claim, then a contract could have an "escape hatch" which is an interesting concept. In the context of anything written, an escape clause is something deliberately included, whereas a loophole is something unintended, so the two are not the same.

To use a literal synonym it's a "technicality" and as the English language is made up from how different people interpret meanings it would be impossible to say that any of the adjectives used are the exact correct description, as even words with the exact same spelling can be open to completely different meanings.
Just as a simple two letter word like UP can have so many conflicting uses such as opening "up" a shop in the morning and then closing it "up" in the evening, it is "up" to each person how they construe a meaning in use but it does not validate one single meaning only. This can stir "up" trouble or it can open "up" an argument that will become blocked "up" by the different usages, we could all line "up" with all of our own thought "up" ideas which can make us all mixed "up" about it all even if we write "up" a list and try to dress it "up" as something else. Making "up" the list could wind (or could that be wind !) "up" some of those involved, we could become mixed "up" and want to give "up" but would that stop us find out what was "up" ?
I'll wrap it "up" for the time being.

 

[bamber]

To use a literal synonym it's a "technicality" and as the English language is made up from how different people interpret meanings it would be impossible to say that any of the adjectives used are the exact correct description, as even words with the exact same spelling can be open to completely different meanings.
Just as a simple two letter word like UP can have so many conflicting uses such as opening "up" a shop in the morning and then closing it "up" in the evening, it is "up" to each person how they construe a meaning in use but it does not validate one single meaning only. This can stir "up" trouble or it can open "up" an argument that will become blocked "up" by the different usages, we could all line "up" with all of our own thought "up" ideas which can make us all mixed "up" about it all even if we write "up" a list and try to dress it "up" as something else. Making "up" the list could wind (or could that be wind !) "up" some of those involved, we could become mixed "up" and want to give "up" but would that stop us find out what was "up" ?
I'll wrap it "up" for the time being.

Not a great illustration, as every example given shows not different meanings of "up" but how it can be used with a verb to produce a new compound verb with a different meaning. English has this construction, but in many other languages the equivalent of verb+up would be a single word. For example, wake up translates into French as reveiller.

If you wanted to say, however, that one word can have different meanings depending on context, then that is precisely what I was saying. So, in the context of agreements, contracts or laws, "loophole" and "get-out clause" have different meanings.