Faster than the speed of light?

dibbers

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Speed-of-light experiments give baffling result at Cern

BBC NEWS


Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles have exceeded the speed of light.
Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early.
The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - will be put online for scrutiny by other scientists.
In the meantime, the group says it is being very cautious about its claims.

"We tried to find all possible explanations for this," said report author Antonio Ereditato of the Opera collaboration.
"We wanted to find a mistake - trivial mistakes, more complicated mistakes, or nasty effects - and we didn't," he told BBC News.
"When you don't find anything, then you say 'Well, now I'm forced to go out and ask the community to scrutinise this.'"
Caught speeding? The speed of light is the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it.

Thousands of experiments have been undertaken to measure it ever more precisely, and no result has ever spotted a particle breaking the limit.
But Dr Ereditato and his colleagues have been carrying out an experiment for the last three years that seems to suggest neutrinos have done just that.
Neutrinos come in a number of types, and have recently been seen to switch spontaneously from one type to another.

The team prepares a beam of just one type, muon neutrinos, sending them from Cern to an underground laboratory at Gran Sasso in Italy to see how many show up as a different type, tau neutrinos.
In the course of doing the experiments, the researchers noticed that the particles showed up a few billionths of a second sooner than light would over the same distance.

The team measured the travel times of neutrino bunches some 15,000 times, and have reached a level of statistical significance that in scientific circles would count as a formal discovery.
But the group understands that what are known as "systematic errors" could easily make an erroneous result look like a breaking of the ultimate speed limit, and that has motivated them to publish their measurements.

"My dream would be that another, independent experiment finds the same thing - then I would be relieved," Dr Ereditato said.
But for now, he explained, "we are not claiming things, we want just to be helped by the community in understanding our crazy result - because it is crazy".
"And of course the consequences can be very serious."
 
that's a very good theory that....plates moving and that? but surly they'd think of this as there always on about how much countries are moving apart, sinking etc etc? good call though, interesting...
 
I reckon inflation's caused it & we'll have to pay for it.......................
HH.
 
Considering the bizarre ways in which particles behave at the quantum level, I wouldn't have thought these results were especially puzzling.
 
they are only measuring over 700km, there must be so much variance in timing over that distance its difficult to draw conclusions.
 
thanks for that, it's very interesting and will be keeping an eye on it in the foreseeable future....i guess at the end of the day, why not? after all who says the sun has to rise everyday! just because it has doens't mean it will...
 
If something travels faster than light, then how can they see it to measure it, and how can they be sure they are the exact same ones?

It could be ones they sent 2 weeks ago, only just made it coincidentally just as they are about to send the others.
 
was reading this before.....

The first measurement of light on Earth was by Armand Fizeau in 1849. He used a beam of light reflected from a mirror 8 km away. The beam passed through the gaps between teeth of a rapidly rotating wheel. The speed of the wheel was increased until the returning light passed through the next gap and could be seen. Then c was calculated to be 315,000 km/s. Leon Foucault improved on this a year later by using rotating mirrors and got the much more accurate answer of 298,000 km/s.

Light travels slower in water than in air Maxwell published his theory of electromagnetism it became possible to calculate the speed of light indirectly from the magnetic permeability and electric permitivity of free space. This was first done by Weber and Kohlrausch in 1857. In 1907 Rosa and Dorsey obtained 299,788 km/s in this way. It was the most accurate value at that time.

As better equipment and techniques were developed, people are able to measure the speed of light more accurately. With the resources of today's technology, they can measure it to an incredibly high precision. For instance, astronauts have attached a mirror to a rock on the moon; scientists on earth can aim a laser at this mirror and measure the travel time of the laser pulse--about two and a half seconds for the round trip. And anyone who measures the speed of light, at any time, using any method, always gets the same result: just slightly less than 300,000 kilometers per second...

Other kinds of electromagnetic radiation, like radio waves and microwaves, are supposed to travel at the same speed as light

in 1888, Heinrich Hertz generated some electromagnetic waves in his laboratory. He measured their speed and came up with that familiar number, 300,000 kilometers per second--a very strong piece of evidence that light and electromagnetic radiation are the same thing


So i guess it's the magnetic permeability and electric permitivity of free space. (what ever the hell that is for now!)
 
If something travels faster than light, then how can they see it to measure it, and how can they be sure they are the exact same ones?

It could be ones they sent 2 weeks ago, only just made it coincidentally just as they are about to send the others.

Perhaps their tomtom saw an accident and diverted them :)
 
If something travels faster than light, then how can they see it to measure it, and how can they be sure they are the exact same ones?

It could be ones they sent 2 weeks ago, only just made it coincidentally just as they are about to send the others.

well light is invisible believe it or not lol and they can measure that. We only see light only when it hits and reflects off something.
 
yeah ain't it interesting, i guess that's why there using waves out of our spectrum, like gamma and radiation, so these all travel around the same speed but no faster until now they claim, well interesting, i was just talking about light a few weeks ago to some one, pigments, we see the colour red for example as that's the only colour that is reflecting, it's mad how the eyes can see a reflection and not only interpreted it into a colour but also an image that's upside down and then flicked back around by the eye/brain etc etc ! god don't get me thinking like this before i go to bed man!lolol...that's where these "cloak" devices are going to come in handy one day when they bend light around your jacket and it'll be like the scene from predator, or even better if they get the masking cloak devices made good you should become invisible, well your coat that is,
 
yeah ain't it interesting, i guess that's why there using waves out of our spectrum, like gamma and radiation, so these all travel around the same speed but no faster until now they claim, well interesting, i was just talking about light a few weeks ago to some one, pigments, we see the colour red for example as that's the only colour that is reflecting, it's mad how the eyes can see a reflection and not only interpreted it into a colour but also an image that's upside down and then flicked back around by the eye/brain etc etc ! god don't get me thinking like this before i go to bed man!lolol...that's where these "cloak" devices are going to come in handy one day when they bend light around your jacket and it'll be like the scene from predator, or even better if they get the masking cloak devices made good you should become invisible, well your coat that is,

i bought an invisible cloak in the pub on saturday night, i put it down while i went for a pee, and couldnt find it again

gutted
 
Scientists have created the first device to render an object invisible in three dimensions.


BBS NEWS HERE


The "cloak", described in the journal Science, hid an object from detection using light of wavelengths close to those that are visible to humans.
Previous devices have been able to hide objects from light travelling in only one direction; viewed from any other angle, the object would remain visible.
This is a very early but significant step towards true invisibility cloaks.

Tolga Ergin, a scientist from the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology in Germany led the study.
 
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