Electrics upgrade?

dunc

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I am fitting a new shower, but gwtting conflicting reports plumber mate says 6mm cable and fuse box (30amp) is ok for my 8.5 kw appliance. This set up has been working with these ratings for about 6 years. However a mate training to be a spark says I should use 10mm cable and fit a RCB and ensure earth bonding.
Who should I belive. grateful for any help and comment.
P.S. have bought a fairly decent shower as last one was a cheapy and budget fairly restricted.
Cheers
Big Al
 
I think you would get a very hot 6mm cable there! Do what the spark tells you.
 
i have just installed a shower 8.5 kw i am not a spark but took some advice from one that was and i can tell you want i think i remember him telling me. A 40 amp fuse is needed .10 mm cable but if the run from the consumer unit to the shower is not to long you can get away with 6mm he did recommend a rcd but just for extra safety as i have a modern consumer unit with mcbs i can get away with out haveing one . you need to run a earth cable from the consumer unit to the shower plumbing and ensure good a earth bond also a 45amp celling mounted pull switch for inside the bathroom not within the reach of the bath or shower or a 45amp wall switch located outside of the bathroom .that is how i have done mine but just finishing tileing so as yet not connected to the comsumer unit
 
damage said:
i have just installed a shower 8.5 kw i am not a spark but took some advice from one that was and i can tell you want i think i remember him telling me. A 40 amp fuse is needed .10 mm cable but if the run from the consumer unit to the shower is not to long you can get away with 6mm he did recommend a rcd but just for extra safety as i have a modern consumer unit with mcbs i can get away with out haveing one . you need to run a earth cable from the consumer unit to the shower plumbing and ensure good a earth bond also a 45amp celling mounted pull switch for inside the bathroom not within the reach of the bath or shower or a 45amp wall switch located outside of the bathroom .that is how i have done mine but just finishing tileing so as yet not connected to the comsumer unit

Not bad advice damage, 10mm cable ok depends on the length and where the cable will be, free air or in a wall etc, 16mm is next size up. would advise RCD though, although the disconnection times are very fast with modern circuit breakers, Again for safety the pull switch or wall switch is better outside if you can.
 
i think the 10mm is new regulations same as cooker circuits .everytime we get a job with 6mm cooker cable we have to change it to 10mm but not to sure on showers m8 and the circuit boards fail a neiec test if they do not have a rcd on the board nowadays depending what dwelling it is (flat etc) so a electrician was telling me
 
the regulations can change at any time i always think its best to be over the specifications than under just for peace of mind and the cost between 6 mm and 10mm cable is not that much and the the fuse will be only a few pounds more to upgrade from a 30 amp which i would say was way under power for 8.5 kw
 
Ok rough guide 8.5 kW is 8500 watts devide by voltage (240) = about 35Amps
6mm cable good for about 30 Amps worst case also if long length it gets lower.
10mm cable about 39 Amps but dont forget the length, about 20M length.should be ok.
so 16mm good for about 52 Amps would be well in.

SO 6mm IS TOO SMALL.
 
On all new installations 10mm t/e should be used for installations of showers 8.5kw and above.
The bathroom must be earth bonded to current regulations and the installation of an rcd will give added protection.
An 40a mcb should be used as 8500 divided by 230 = 39.95amps (a 32a could cause nusance tripping )
I would advise getting an electrician to check that you have an adequate earth to your property as under fault conditions the mcb might not trip
 
Thanks guys your help and advice has beeb gr8 help
 
The pull cord switch (45amp) has to be a double pole which means the neutral and the live is switched (isolated)...

Taff
 
I am a spark, I always try to locate the 45a DP pull switch within easy reach of the bath this enables local disconnection if a fault occurs, the idea of using a pull switch is so that if you are wet it does not matter the idea being you are not in direct contact with the physical switch and therfor at no danger from a shock, obviously if you have a very low cieling this may prevent you from doing this.

On a single phase supply the current carrying capacity of 6mm T&E ranges from 34A to 38A depending on how the cable is run ie enclosed in condiut, the shower would only use the full 8.5kw (37 Amps) when activated on the highest temperature which in practice never happens, from experience if you installed the shower and used a 32a MCB then this would be within the regs using 6mm and would be perfectly safe as you are protecting the circuit within its operating capacity.

If you wanted to install a 40a mcb then you would as previously advised need to use 10mm cable which has a ccc of between 46A and 65A. Using 10mm would also be an advantage as in the future you may want to change the shower say to a 9.5kw (41 Amps) or even 10.5kw (46 Amps)

Bonding you should ensure that you have adequate bonding both to water and gas mains of 10mm and cross bonding of all exposed metal work of 6mm ie a single cable that interconnects the bath, hot water pipe, cold water pipe and raidator, it is also good practice to run a dedicated 6mm earth cable with you shower circuit directly to the bathroom although this is not required with the regs.

I have never had to install a RCD on a shower installation as long as you have a adedquate earth loop reading then the disconnection time of a MCB would be sufficient.

If in doubt don't attempt to do any electrical work yourself especially such a job as a shower get a local qualified electrician in.
 
"SYSCON - I am a spark, I always try to locate the 45a DP pull switch within easy reach of the bath this enables local disconnection if a fault occurs, the idea of using a pull switch is so that if you are wet it does not matter the idea being you are not in direct contact with the physical switch and therfor at no danger from a shock, obviously if you have a very low cieling this may prevent you from doing this."

The only problem with that m8 is the peeps on this forum will not be aware of safe zones
 
Digi,

I understand that people may not be aware of safe zones, and I would not recommend anyone tamper with electrics thats why I highlighted this in the last paragraph.

For those who are still attempting to install showers the following is an indication of the safe zones digi mentioned:

Zone 0 is inside the bath or shower itself and any fittings used here must be low voltage (max 12v) and be rated IPx7 which is total protection when immersed in water.

Zone 1 is above the bath to a height of 2.25m. A minimum rating of IPx4 is required here.

Zone 2 is an area stretching to 0.6m outside the bath and above the bath if over 2.25m. An IP rating of at least IPx4 is required here.

Zone 3 is anywhere outside zones 0, 1 and 2 (subject to specific limits) and where no water jet is likely to be used there is no IP rating required.

Please see attached picture for safe zone layouts.
 
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