cerapod
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So you do believe that squalene is dangerous then?
Children should not be given Tamiflu, Oxford researchers
- Thread starter totalgenius
- Start date
So you do believe that squalene is dangerous then?
huggi
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lets try keep this as friendly and on topic as possible everyone.
cerapod
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No problem on my part Huggi. I think its fun to discuss these things and see people's reactions on here and elsewhere.
Its not a big deal and if you take it seriously then its defeating the point.
mozr
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There is a possibility that Squalene may have been a contributing factor to Gulf War Syndrome (that is still being investigated).
If the powers that be knew that to be the case, and could use another product for the adjuvant then they would. They are not trying to kill people. They are trying to cure people.
The point is that things are not zero or a hundred, black or white.
There have been cases where a vaccination has caused unacceptable levels of death, but those are minuscule against the projected lives saved by intervention.
If the preponderance of the evidence suggests that vaccination will ultimately save more lives than it could possibly kill, then it would be the right thing to do, would it not?
Unfortunately, the time honoured concept of triage is little understood by those who wish to find conspiracy.
If the powers that be knew that to be the case, and could use another product for the adjuvant then they would. They are not trying to kill people. They are trying to cure people.
The point is that things are not zero or a hundred, black or white.
There have been cases where a vaccination has caused unacceptable levels of death, but those are minuscule against the projected lives saved by intervention.
If the preponderance of the evidence suggests that vaccination will ultimately save more lives than it could possibly kill, then it would be the right thing to do, would it not?
Unfortunately, the time honoured concept of triage is little understood by those who wish to find conspiracy.
This is getting silly.
I responded to posts 22 &23 earlier this morning, agreeing with cerapod that neither of us saw a problem with the thread.
As far as both of us were concerned we were having a lively debate, no insults had been traded.
That post of mine has been removed. No reason given.
Is there a hidden agenda here?
I responded to posts 22 &23 earlier this morning, agreeing with cerapod that neither of us saw a problem with the thread.
As far as both of us were concerned we were having a lively debate, no insults had been traded.
That post of mine has been removed. No reason given.
Is there a hidden agenda here?
emarald
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emarald
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Squalene is a component of some adjuvants that are added to vaccines to enhance the immune response.
MF59, an adjuvant produced by Novartis and added to the FLUAD flu vaccine, is such an example.
Squalene by itself is not an adjuvant, but emulsions of squalene with surfactants do enhance the immune response.
emarald
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A few people have tried to link the health problems of Gulf War veterans to the possible presence of squalene in the vaccines these soldiers received.
One published report suggested that some veterans who received anthrax vaccines developed anti-squalene antibodies and these antibodies caused disabilities.
It is now known that squalene was not added to the vaccines administered to these veterans, and technical deficiencies in the report suggesting an association have been published.
No, :Laugh:, and "I'm beginning to wonder."
Thank you for those two informative posts.
cerapod
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The report that squalene was not added to the vaccines administered to these veterans was conducted by the US Department Of Defence. Its hardly surprising they found no link, think of what it would cost the US if they found it was a contributing factor to GWS.
The next part in italic has been copied/pasted btw before anyone complains:
Research into the vaccine used after 1997 suggests that specific vaccine lots used in immunization during the Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program program initiated in 1997 likely contain squalene because " the incidence of [anti-squalene antibodies] in personnel in the blinded study receiving these lots was 47% (8/17) compared to an incidence of 0% (0/8; P < 0.025) of the AVIP participants receiving other lots of vaccine.
Even after the war, troops that had never been deployed overseas, after receiving the anthrax vaccine, developed symptoms similar to those of Persian Gulf War Syndrome. The Pentagon failed to report to Congress 20,000 cases where soldiers were hospitalized after receiving the vaccine between 1998 and 2000.
Despite repeated assurances that the vaccine was safe and necessary, a U.S. Federal Judge ruled that there was good cause to believe it was harmful, and he ordered the Pentagon to stop administering it in October 2004.
Anyway,this is getting silly now. Claims and counter-claims can just run and run.
The next part in italic has been copied/pasted btw before anyone complains:
Research into the vaccine used after 1997 suggests that specific vaccine lots used in immunization during the Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program program initiated in 1997 likely contain squalene because " the incidence of [anti-squalene antibodies] in personnel in the blinded study receiving these lots was 47% (8/17) compared to an incidence of 0% (0/8; P < 0.025) of the AVIP participants receiving other lots of vaccine.
Even after the war, troops that had never been deployed overseas, after receiving the anthrax vaccine, developed symptoms similar to those of Persian Gulf War Syndrome. The Pentagon failed to report to Congress 20,000 cases where soldiers were hospitalized after receiving the vaccine between 1998 and 2000.
Despite repeated assurances that the vaccine was safe and necessary, a U.S. Federal Judge ruled that there was good cause to believe it was harmful, and he ordered the Pentagon to stop administering it in October 2004.
Anyway,this is getting silly now. Claims and counter-claims can just run and run.
mozr
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Really?
wikipedia said:
It seems that you are right. in 2009 a report was published by the US defense
science direct[/quote said:
If that is the case why is Squalene bad?
emarald
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[/quote]
If that is the case why is Squalene bad?[/QUOTE]
Safety of squalene
WHO | Safety of squalene
WHO | Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety, 6-7 June 2006
If that is the case why is Squalene bad?[/QUOTE]
Safety of squalene
WHO | Safety of squalene
WHO | Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety, 6-7 June 2006
Last edited:
mozr
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Very good sources there Emarald.
I see where you have your information from regarding Squalene as an adjuvant component, as opposed to the whole.
I suppose it was a short hand, the same way we call a vacuum cleaner a 'Hoover'. What I was doing was lazy synecdoche. Thanks for the clarification.
Unless I am reading it incorrectly the WHO links seem to state that there is no evidence of Squalene having caused any issues. They are however looking for more evidence to be collated.
So...
Thaw is wrong with squalene, and furthermore the flu vaccine?
I see where you have your information from regarding Squalene as an adjuvant component, as opposed to the whole.
I suppose it was a short hand, the same way we call a vacuum cleaner a 'Hoover'. What I was doing was lazy synecdoche. Thanks for the clarification.
Unless I am reading it incorrectly the WHO links seem to state that there is no evidence of Squalene having caused any issues. They are however looking for more evidence to be collated.
So...
Thaw is wrong with squalene, and furthermore the flu vaccine?
english
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Tamiflu = 1 day less swine flu = crap and a dangerous waste of time .
cerapod
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Oh dear..this doesn't sound good does it.
A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America | Mail Online
Seems to be all over the web now as well.
swine flu leaked letter - Google Search
Think I'd rather take my chances fighting it naturally rather than using Tamiflu or any vaccine that the government says is safe!
A warning that the new swine flu jab is linked to a deadly nerve disease has been sent by the Government to senior neurologists in a confidential letter.
Swine flu jab link to killer nerve disease: Leaked letter reveals concern of neurologists over 25 deaths in America | Mail Online
Seems to be all over the web now as well.
swine flu leaked letter - Google Search
Think I'd rather take my chances fighting it naturally rather than using Tamiflu or any vaccine that the government says is safe!
english
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the only way to fight it afaic is naturally, with maybe a double up on vitamin d / cod liver oil supplement to keep it at bay and help with the symptoms if you are unfortunate to have it already.
assuming it is in fact swine flu and not meningitis.
assuming it is in fact swine flu and not meningitis.
MikeS
Inactive User
all tamiflu does is reduce the chances of it being passed on to another human and possible secondary infections relating to any flu type virus [chest infections etc]
if you dont suffer from chest infections of tonsillitis then i wouldnt touch it with a barge pole as it messes with your head
if you dont suffer from chest infections of tonsillitis then i wouldnt touch it with a barge pole as it messes with your head
cerapod
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Plans to fast-track the swine flu vaccine in Britain came under fire from World Health Organisation chiefs today.
The Department of Health plans to make the vaccine available at least two months earlier than in America.
More than 132million doses have been ordered with the first batch due to arrive next month.
However, Dr Keiji Fukuda, the WHO's flu chief, today warned about the potential dangers of the untested vaccine: "There are certain areas where you simply do not try to make any economies. One of the things which cannot be compromised is the safety of vaccines."
The European Medicines Agency, the drug regulatory body for the EU, is accelerating the approval process for the vaccine, allowing firms to bypass large-scale human trials and instead test a vaccine based on bird flu.
Vaccine for swine flu may be unsafe warns WHO | News
Still think its safe Emarald????
The Department of Health plans to make the vaccine available at least two months earlier than in America.
More than 132million doses have been ordered with the first batch due to arrive next month.
However, Dr Keiji Fukuda, the WHO's flu chief, today warned about the potential dangers of the untested vaccine: "There are certain areas where you simply do not try to make any economies. One of the things which cannot be compromised is the safety of vaccines."
The European Medicines Agency, the drug regulatory body for the EU, is accelerating the approval process for the vaccine, allowing firms to bypass large-scale human trials and instead test a vaccine based on bird flu.
Vaccine for swine flu may be unsafe warns WHO | News
Still think its safe Emarald????
totalgenius
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One in three nurses does not want swine flu vaccine
One in three nurses say they will not be immunised against swine flu, despite being offered the vaccine as a priority to protect patients.
Concerns about the vaccine’s safety and a perception that the infection is mild are among reasons that NHS staff gave for refusing to have the jab, a survey of nearly 1,500 staff found.
Frontline health and social care workers will be offered the jab from October, along with patients in at-risk groups — such as those with diabetes, asthma or pregnant women.
In the online survey for Nursing Times magazine, 30 per cent of nurses said that they would not get immunised when the vaccine for H1N1 became available; 37 per cent said they would. Thirty-three per cent were undecided.
Of those who said that they would not be vaccinated, 60 per cent cited concern about the safety of the vaccine as the main reason.
Thirty-one per cent said they did not consider the risks to their health from swine flu to be great enough, and 9 per cent did not think they would be able to take time out of work to visit their GP to be immunised.
Two possible vaccines are being tested in trials run by the University of Leicester and the Health Protection Agency to assess immunity levels and identify side-effects.
A decision on licensing is expected at the end of September, with nearly 55 million doses expected to be delivered to Britain by the end of the year.
David Salisbury, the Department of Health’s director of immunisation, said it was unfortunate that nurses could “knowingly leave themselves at risk” of contracting the illness.
“They have a duty to themselves, they are at risk. They have a duty to their patients not to infect their patients and they have a duty to their families. I think you solve those responsibilities by being vaccinated,” he said.
He added: “The evidence that we’ve had is sufficient to persuade the regulators that these are vaccines that will be licensed.”
Professor Salisbury’s comments follow a warning from Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer for England, that swine flu could leave up to 12 per cent of the NHS workforce on sick leave at any one time.
Low vaccination rates among NHS staff have previously been blamed for causing disruption to services and illness among patients during typical winter flu seasons.
Transmission by staff of contagious viruses was blamed for some hospital outbreaks of flu last winter, when fewer than one in seven NHS staff received the annual flu vaccine, while shortages of workers also put pressure on accident and emergency departments.
Reported cases of swine flu this summer have already surpassed the levels typically seen during a winter flu season, and the figures are expected to surge in the coming months.
George Kassianos, the immunisation spokesman for the Royal College of GPs, said: “More than any other year, this year it is extremely improtant that people get vaccinated against flu. It is very important that nurses, doctors and healthcare workers do not get influenza themselves and have to go off sick, and also that we do not give it to our patients.
“We are lucky that we will have enough doses of this vaccine in Britain, and we as health professionals need to put it in our own arms first to better protect our patients.”
Dr Kassianos added that it was understandable that people were unsure about having a new vaccine, “but its ingredients and the way it's being manufactured are almost exactly the same as the annual flu vaccine. I see no reason why this vaccine should be any different to the flu vaccines of the past. People’s confidence should rise as the programme gets under way.”
By David Rose
One in three nurses does not want swine flu vaccine - Times Online
One in three nurses say they will not be immunised against swine flu, despite being offered the vaccine as a priority to protect patients.
Concerns about the vaccine’s safety and a perception that the infection is mild are among reasons that NHS staff gave for refusing to have the jab, a survey of nearly 1,500 staff found.
Frontline health and social care workers will be offered the jab from October, along with patients in at-risk groups — such as those with diabetes, asthma or pregnant women.
In the online survey for Nursing Times magazine, 30 per cent of nurses said that they would not get immunised when the vaccine for H1N1 became available; 37 per cent said they would. Thirty-three per cent were undecided.
Of those who said that they would not be vaccinated, 60 per cent cited concern about the safety of the vaccine as the main reason.
Thirty-one per cent said they did not consider the risks to their health from swine flu to be great enough, and 9 per cent did not think they would be able to take time out of work to visit their GP to be immunised.
Two possible vaccines are being tested in trials run by the University of Leicester and the Health Protection Agency to assess immunity levels and identify side-effects.
A decision on licensing is expected at the end of September, with nearly 55 million doses expected to be delivered to Britain by the end of the year.
David Salisbury, the Department of Health’s director of immunisation, said it was unfortunate that nurses could “knowingly leave themselves at risk” of contracting the illness.
“They have a duty to themselves, they are at risk. They have a duty to their patients not to infect their patients and they have a duty to their families. I think you solve those responsibilities by being vaccinated,” he said.
He added: “The evidence that we’ve had is sufficient to persuade the regulators that these are vaccines that will be licensed.”
Professor Salisbury’s comments follow a warning from Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer for England, that swine flu could leave up to 12 per cent of the NHS workforce on sick leave at any one time.
Low vaccination rates among NHS staff have previously been blamed for causing disruption to services and illness among patients during typical winter flu seasons.
Transmission by staff of contagious viruses was blamed for some hospital outbreaks of flu last winter, when fewer than one in seven NHS staff received the annual flu vaccine, while shortages of workers also put pressure on accident and emergency departments.
Reported cases of swine flu this summer have already surpassed the levels typically seen during a winter flu season, and the figures are expected to surge in the coming months.
George Kassianos, the immunisation spokesman for the Royal College of GPs, said: “More than any other year, this year it is extremely improtant that people get vaccinated against flu. It is very important that nurses, doctors and healthcare workers do not get influenza themselves and have to go off sick, and also that we do not give it to our patients.
“We are lucky that we will have enough doses of this vaccine in Britain, and we as health professionals need to put it in our own arms first to better protect our patients.”
Dr Kassianos added that it was understandable that people were unsure about having a new vaccine, “but its ingredients and the way it's being manufactured are almost exactly the same as the annual flu vaccine. I see no reason why this vaccine should be any different to the flu vaccines of the past. People’s confidence should rise as the programme gets under way.”
By David Rose
One in three nurses does not want swine flu vaccine - Times Online
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