Avoiding Speed Camera Points UK !

[Mr_Whippy]

!WARNING! I do not recommend or condone law breaking. I am not a QC and the content of this topic is simply ideas not recommendations.
If you try to use this information you do so entirely at your own risk.

I have personaly used the double guilty blag and it has worked,well so far,the police said in a letter 2 months ago they were sending my details to the CPS recammending prosecuting me for not providing the driver details (scare tactics hopeing id confess)and i still havent heard from them.........yet
so has anyone got any idea how long it will take the CPS to decide to screw me?
if they are at all.
btw im gonna go NOT guilty if they wanna prosecute me as in my honest view i did indeed provide the drivers details to the best of my knowlege (just two sets of em on the same NIP) lol

AND REMEMBER DONT SIGN ANYTHING AS YOU DONT HAVE TOO, IT CANT BE USED IN COURT AGAINST YOU IF YOU HAVENT SIGNED IT.

Company gets the points:
If a limited company owns the car and can't or won't say who was driving at the time of the offence, the company secretary (official post) gets the points and fine. A lot of limited companies now have non-driving secretaries! Also there is no requirement for a company secretary to be a UK resident. A limited company can be bought for circa £100 and run for about the same amount each year if it doesn't actually trade.

Does anyone want to set up a business with an overseas company secretary to receive points?

Overseas driver:
If the person who was driving at the time of the offence was a visitor from overseas then this would be a very good thing. Feel free to give the driver's name and address on the form. If the driver is outside the UK but within the EEC there's an outside chance that they might hear about the offence. If the driver was from a third world country, then you can be pretty sure that that will be an end to the matter.

Double denial:
If there were two of you in the car and you reply to the NIP that the other person was driving, they will receive a summons or a fixed penalty notice. If they in turn plead not guilty and say that you were driving, it will be your word against theirs and NEITHER of you can be found guilty since a reasonable doubt of the guilt of EITHER of you must exist.

Double guilty "Police" recommended:
Again if there were two of you in the car and you don't recall who was driving. A police officer recommended to us that you fill in the NIP with BOTH names saying that you can't identify the driver, but you are in effect, both guilty. The system cannot prosecute two people for the same offence and this should result in the case being dropped more quickly and with less hassle than in Double denial. You can expect a visit from the local police to talk you into nominating a driver (yes really!), but stick to your guns and all will be well.

Cloned number plate:
Number plate cloning is becoming much more common. It is quite possible that someone will have seen your car and copied the number plate, so if your car was not in the area where the offence was committed, do not be afraid to write and tell them so. Most cameras only photograph the rear of the vehicle, so obvious identifying features may be evidence that it really was your car.

Underage owner:
Register the vehicle in the name of a two year old child. We think this is perfectly legal, and they will not prosecute the two year old. Your can remain the owner, but be sure to inform the insurance company.

Owner, what owner?:
A lot of traders buy cars with 12 months tax (ex fleet cars are usually out of tax just before the end of the lease so get a new tax disc and are then moved on) run it and then trade it on before the tax runs out. The police can't follow the paper chase (usually with a few false names) so give up. Camera fines and parking tickets are all a thing of the past for these people. I see this being the way a lot of people will go if camera numbers grow. Anyway buying and selling trade is the cheapest way to run a car.

Dead driver:
I heard suggested that on receiving the notice of intended prosecution you could pick a recently deceased person mentioned in the local paper and name them as the driver at the time.

Friend takes the points:
If you have a friend with a clean licence, they might agree to admit that they were driving and allow you to pay their fixed penalty notice and any (small!) motor insurance increases. This works even better if you have a relative who no longer drives. If you have a friend who never intends to drive, make sure they get a provisional licence to receive points for you. At the time of writing there are no insurance or other checks when a fixed penalty notice is paid.

Maximum delay:
Delays to the court process are a good thing and encourage the failure of the case. (for example, if a police witness leaves the force the case will be dropped.) I have recently heard that points "count" from the time of the offence for 3 years. If the court case takes a year, then the points won't be applied for a year and will only be valid for 2 years. If you have a holiday booked for the time of a hearing you can request that the hearing be rescheduled. There may be many many other grounds for delay.

Points selling and brokerage:
According to a recent Sunday Times article there's a lively trade in selling points. Students are said to have taken points for fees of £50. Read the article here. The article also describes a student who acts as a points broker and makes a profit from the process. An Internet search on "licence points broker" finds nothing, so that exact phrase would be very good for anyone setting up or advertising such a scheme. ACPO warns that that selling points might attract a charge of "attempting to pervert the course of justice", but of course evidence to support such a charge should be extremely hard to come by.

Planned refusal:
Suppose you've been gatsoed at 105mph on the motorway. According to Magistrates Association guidelines you face a ban for major speeding. If you refuse to identify the driver it seems that you only face 3 points and a fine. So if the speeding offence is "serious" you might sensibly plan to refuse to identify the driver. We are presently trying to verify the exact legal position on this.

Can't identify driver:
If you genuinely cannot identify the driver (for example because the driving on the journey in question was shared) then say you cannot identify the driver. Failing to identify the driver is, in itself, an offence, but as an individual you cannot be found guilty if you genuinely do not know who the driver was. Companies are apparently not entitled to use this defence. I heard of a case where someone was selling a motorbike. A prospective purchaser turned up, left the full payment as a security deposit and took the bike for a test drive. During the test drive he was photographed by a speed camera. He didn't buy the bike. When the NIP arrived the owner was unable to identify the driver.

Question the calibration:
My m8 was flashed almost a year ago in a welsh town. He was "caught" doing 43 in a 30 zone. After he received notification he queried the accuracy of the camera. He wrote back asking for proof that the camera was recently calibrated. The police wrote back and said that the cameras are checked daily for accuracy (what a load of crap).... My m8 then wrote back asking for the calibration reports, stating that if the cameras are indeed calibrated daily then there would be records of the fact. He askd for these reports so he could send them to his solicitor.
That was the last my m8 has heard about the matter.

Keep to the speed limit in the first place
Obvious of course.


i have since purchased a Road Angel and it seems quite good so with any luck they can F**k Off in future !


!IMPORTANT!:If you do use this information you do so entirely at your own risk.

 

[Mr_Whippy]

hey guys maybe make this sticky?
what do u think?

 

[allroad]

as far as i know if they dont do anything for 6 months your in the clear

 

[Gary Jackson]

I waited nearly 8 month to be dragged into court, all because i droved into a no entry at the end of my street, the no entry was a back lane!!!....15 foot long. I receintly saw a cop car doing what i done, took down the reg and reported it.....low and behold nothing was done to the copper that i reported, and tried to explain to the desk sargent that double standards were an issue here.....he dissmissed this saying the area car had to reach his destination in the quickest and safest manor..........(what a load of crap!!!!)........was my last words to him.

CPS gave me 4 points and £100 fine...just goes to show that hitting the motorist is still the easiest way of getting revenue out of the tax paying public.
BTW....nice post Mr Whippy :Clap:


Gary

 

[Mr_Whippy]

umm is the time in which the CPS get to prosecute you from the time the police sent the papers to them or the time of the alleged offence(im now thinking its the alleged offence),if its the time of the alleged offence then its about 4.5 months ago now,
also i just thought,as i never signed either of the two NIPs they sent me (i did fill em in both times with the two drivers details)then perhaps fingers crossed they have NO evidence they can actually use in court.......heheheh

btw if i do hear from either the police or CPS in reguard to this i will keep u guys informed!

 

[allroad]

i read in the paper yesterday about a traffic cop who got off with speeding twice 58 in a 50 and 82 in 70 both cases were dropped beccause he said the speed limit signs were illegal because they had black lines on the outside !!! Theres another point about parking on double yellows if the lines are not closed at both ends were they start and finish they cannot ticket you as the lines are incomplete and may as well not be there

 

[Gary Jackson]

It was from when i got sprung for the offence Mr Whippy, it took almost 8 month from that date. The best thing about it was the copper said he was just causioning me not actually doing me, thats probs why it took so long.....but in the end i was done.

Gary

 

[Gary Jackson]

Originally posted by allroad
i read in the paper yesterday about a traffic cop who got off with speeding twice 58 in a 50 and 82 in 70 both cases were dropped beccause he said the speed limit signs were illegal because they had black lines on the outside !!! Theres another point about parking on double yellows if the lines are not closed at both ends were they start and finish they cannot ticket you as the lines are incomplete and may as well not be there

Yes its a funny old world Allroad m8, makes you wonder who comes up with all these rules and regs regarding stuff like this
1 classic example was on "The Bill" tv series this week, one of the new pc's caught the chief after drinking and driving, she got road-side breath tested +...then carted off down the nick....the two coppers that were dealing with this case got a plan in their heads to get her off the drink drive charge, by altering the breath test machine in the station.
Now i know its only a tv series but i bet this kind of stuff goes on in real stations all over the uk etc. Makes you wonder dont it?

Gary

 

[damage]

a taxi driver m8 of my brother said that if you get a fine for speeding or some other motering offence that if when you make the cheque out you add 50p or a small sum of money over the top from what you were fined they have to refund the balance that you have overpaid in the form of a cheque if you keep the cheque and never cash it they are not able to close the case .... but this is the point at which i have forgot what the advantage of not cashing the cheque is it could be that they are unable to put the point's on your licence until you have perhaps someone else knows ?????

 

[Mr_Whippy]

now u mention it ,i think you are correct they cant conclude the case and cant add the points on and if you string it out over three years then as the points run from the time of the alleged offence you end up not getting em
well done guys another way to potentially avoid the stinking points (im sure we would all pay the fine if it was just a fine)

1 other thing that annoys me is how they call the section that deals with speeding camera offences "Safety Camera Unit" more like "cash generating unit".
i think they are good idea outside schools and places like that but 95% of em are just out to make money not save lives or cut accidents.

 

[allroad]

damage on the cheque thing i think that they would send the cheque back to you and ask you to send the proper amount then by law you would not have paid the fine i dont think tha tthey would cash a cheque for the wrong amount

 

[digidude]

a little something i found


The following is from Adrian Shurmer of "Driver Awareness Ltd"

Adrian suggests that a fixed penalty speeding ticket amounts to "demanding money with menaces".

Thousands of people have recently been issued a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) for an alleged minor speeding offence.

Where the NIP states that the speed limit was allegedly exceeded, the following advice is given as a procedure to adopt.

Procedure

Company Owned Vehicle

· Company receives a demand for information on the driver of a vehicle at a time, date and place as stated on the form.

At this stage the form asks for details of the driver of the vehicle.
This form must be completed by the company, not the driver, and returned to the sender.

All Vehicles

· Driver receives Notice of Intended Prosecution.

The driver must complete all relevant sections on the form and return it to the sender.

· The driver may later receive a fixed penalty ticket accompanied by a 'Conditional Offer' to pay a fixed penalty fine and/or attend a 'Speed Awareness Course' in place of penalty points.

The driver writes a letter to the authority requesting evidence concerning the alleged offence, e.g. copy photograph, certificate of compliance for the camera (if appropriate) and a copy of the Police Officer's statement - as required for lawful and necessary corroboration
- if a mobile camera is involved.

· The driver may then receive a letter stating that the request is denied - stating words to the effect that photographic evidence can only be seen when a decision is made to prosecute and summons the driver to appear before a Court. This letter should also detail a denial for the other items of evidence, but often fails to mention them.


It is only at this stage that the alleged driver should consider sending to the authority, the letter as shown below.

· It is advisable that all correspondence be delivered via Recorded Delivery.


Dear Sirs,

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated……….in which you allege that I have committed a speeding offence. That letter does not provide, or offer to provide, any evidence that I have indeed committed such an offence.

I regard your allegation with the utmost concern as I am being asked to make a very important decision which could very seriously affect my future quality of life.

I shall be grateful therefore if you will advise me where, in law, does it state or allow for evidence against a suspect to be deliberately withheld following, or during, the process of an official demand for the payment of money (in this case a £60.00 fixed penalty (or) £95.00 for a 'Speed Awareness Course'.

Further, whereby failure to pay that money on demand will expose the person suspected of that offence to a possible fine of up to £1000.00 (plus costs) at a Magistrates' Court, an amount that is in excess of 16 times (or 11 times) (respectively) the amount of money previously demanded.

This, in my view, could potentially be a criminal offence in itself, the offence of demanding money with menaces. It is also arguably a breach of my human rights in that I am being subjected to unreasonable and possibly unlawful pressure by being placed into a 'pay us now and save yourself harassment later' position.

I am entitled, in law, to all and any evidence that I have committed the offence complained of before I pay any money to you - not just at Court, but as soon as you issue me with a fixed penalty (or offer me a speed awareness course).

I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully

………………….


Further information: It is advised that all threats received after this letter is sent, be ignored - a letter will probably be received with words to the effect, "we are complying with the regulations so pay up within seven days or a court case will be prepared" etc…..

To date, there have been no prosecutions of any alleged (minor speeding) offender who has compiled and sent a letter similar to the above.



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This was another posting on the forum. This was an answer to someone posting about receiving a NIP in the post and taking it on the chin.

What proof do they have that:-

1. The vehicle in the picture is yours and not a clone?
2. The speed trap device is accurate?
3. The proper guidelines have been followed?
4. You were actually driving the car at the time?

Reply to the NIP stating that "I am unable to provide you with the information you require". Don't sign it. Enclose a covering letter stating that you wish to see a copy of the photographic evidence, and a copy of the calibration certificate for the speed detection equipment.

Also ask for a copy of the guidelines and manufacturers instructions for the use of that equipment, plus a copy of the relevant pages of the operator's (Policeman's) notebook, detailing the entire chain of events starting from when they parked the van to when they packed up and drove away. This will tell you whether the relevant instructions were followed.

You may not receive all of this straight away but be persistent. Regarding the photographs, make it clear to them that at present you are unable to provide them with the information they require and you need to see the photographic evidence in order that it might help you do this (notice the word "might").

Once you receive the photographs, you will (naturally) still not be able to identify the driver and will probably have doubts as to whether it is you car or not. Ask them to prove that it is indeed your car in the picture and not a similar make/model with false number plates. In the meantime, try and work out a way to place yourself and your car elsewhere at the time. (Be careful here, you don't want to lay yourself open to perjury!).

In addition to this, you could refuse to answer their questions on the grounds that it is your right to do so under the terms of the European convention of Human Rights. See http://www.righttosilence.org.uk for more information and also information on a current case before the ECHR specifically regarding this. Depending upon how far you want to take things you could cite this case and ask for a stay of proceedings until you have the outcome of a similar action on your own behalf.

To summarise:-

1. Cause the buggers as much inconvenience as humanly possible.
2. Demand to see ALL the evidence against you.
3. Demand verification that all procedures have been followed and that the equipment is calibrated.
4. Ask what proof, rather than circumstantial evidence, they have that they have identified the vehicle correctly.
5. Ask what proof they have as to the identity of the driver (they will have none at all).
6. Play the human rights card.

If everybody did this, the system would collapse.

 

[digidude]

What must the officer do, and what should you do.
When you are being reported for speeding, the Police Officer must tell you:-
"That you will be reported for consideration of the question of prosecuting you for exceeding the speed limit." It must either be given verbally or in writing at the time, or in writing within fourteen days or a summons be issued within fourteen days.

Following this Notice of Intended Prosecution, he should then caution you by saying, "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned, something you later rely on in Court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."

Under Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act, 1988, section 1, it states, " A person shall not be convicted of an offence to which this section applies, (speeding, dangerous driving, careless driving, failing to conform to traffic lights, failing to conform to stop signs, continuous white lines in the middle of the road and other mandatory road signs) unless the Notice of Intended Prosecution was given.

When being booked for speeding or any other offence, if possible switch on a tape recorder or Dictaphone so that you have a record of what the officer says. Be careful, some Police Forces do have the N.I.P. printed on the HO/RT/1 producer form or on specially printed forms for speeding offences.



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How to avoid being nicked when you are stopped.
In a word. Act. However much you want to tell the police how crap his last manoeuvres were, you actually do this.....Dependent on how bad the offence is, because remember, by the time he gets to your car he has pretty well made up his or her mind what they will be doing,
Try your utmost to make the officer truly believe that he has really got to your soul. He will always have a cautionary tale of something gruesome that just happens to have occurred right next to where you are. They make these lectures often. They want to feel that by telling you they can 'make a difference' Be craven, make sure you stop the very instant you know you are going to be stopped, be on the pavement looking seriously glum. If your licence has already has points on it, you are going to need talent. Go with the super-miserable, "Oh god, I of all blokes should know better by now," if you can raise a Hollywood tear you are Oscar material. No matter how base, low and s**t it makes you feel, exult in the aftermath when you get a good ticking-off but no ticket


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What to do if caught.
Firstly, not enough people who are caught fight it in court, they simply accept it, get the points and pay the fine. If more than 10% fought the ticket I think the judicial system dealing with this would be overwhelmed and brought down on its knees. If in doubt, fight it. The worst thing that can happen is that you will be convicted of you original offence. You can get a heftier fine and more points in court, but unless you were doing silly speeds, its unlikely.
Make the systems life HELL when fighting it. Remember it is going to cost the system a huge amount of money to prosecute you, in the officer's time, court's time, prosecutor's time etc. The best thing you can do is make it worse.

Here are some steps you can take.


What to do at the scene
It is critical that you start contesting your ticket at the scene of the alleged offence. . You must judge the officers temperament and situation and decide for yourself . You are more likely to get let off by a normal officer (black hat, black uniform) than by a traffic officer (white hat, green overcoat). Remember, its a traffic cop's job to catch you, the normal cop probably does not want the added paperwork (I know someone who was let off in town for doing 70mph because he said he thought he was still on the motorway). If the officer asks you how fast you think you were going you can take one of three approaches..
You can deny it outright and tell him you weren't speeding, that you checked the speedometer. DO NOT get into an argument, but do not admit guilt. This is unlikely to prevent him from giving you a ticket, but you can tell judge at a trial that you were not speeding and you checked the speedometer, you can have the officer confirm that in your cross examination of him. This will serve to make your case stronger.
You can say that you are not sure, your mind was elsewhere. If he insists you were speeding, then sidestep by saying something like, "I guess I must have been otherwise you would not have stopped me DO NOT admit guilt, this approach simply reiterates the officers accusation. This is difficult to use as evidence in court on both sides.
Be honest and admit guilt. If you are stopped by a traffic officer, then you are going to get a ticket anyway so this is a stupid approach. If it is a normal officer, you may get off for being honest. This approach relies on luck. Forget fighting it in court if you admit guilt.
NEVER admit guilt, even if you do not intend fighting it, none of the I have a plane to catch, I'm late for work, my house is on fire.

All speed pacing police cars have to have their Speedo's measured and certified. Only traffic police cars are done, and the Speedo will have increments of 1 mph's. If you are stopped by a non traffic officer, and told that he/she followed you and you were speeding, simply ask as a matter of course when his Speedo was last calibrated. It is likely he will let you go since normal police (Beat) cars do not have certified Speedo's, theirs is the same as mine and yours.



NEVER surrender your licence at the roadside, you will get a chance to take it to a police station. Surrendering you licence at the roadside is an admission of guilt. Surrendering it at a police station later is just abiding by the law.

This is unlikely to prevent him from giving you a ticket, but you can tell the judge at a trial that you were not speeding and you checked the speedometer, you can have the officer confirm that in your cross examination of him. This will serve to make your case stronger.

If you are given a ticket, study it carefully before leaving the scene. The officer will ask if you have questions about the ticket, and you will:

DO NOT get cocky at the scene, you have nothing against the police officer, he/she is only doing his/her job. It is the system that you want to fight (legally I mean!).

If you were caught on a Radar gun.
Ask to have a look at the radar gun and check that the gun displays the speed that you were stopped for.

If possible, get the make, model and serial number of the radar gun.

Ask the officer to demonstrate that the radar gun is calibrated (he will probably not do this, if not assume it is not calibrated and use it as evidence).

Do not regard self diagnostics as accurate, Radar guns are calibrated with a pair of tuning forks, and only this external test may be considered accurate.

If the officer refuses to demonstrate the calibration, ask him to prove that he has tuning forks in the car (he will probably not be too happy at this point, but he can not do anything, your requests are legitimate). If he doesn't, tell the judge because this means (at least in your eyes) that that the gun is not calibrated.

If you were caught on a LIDAR gun.
Ask to have a look at the radar gun and check that the gun displays the speed that you were stopped for.

If possible, get the make, model and serial number of the laser unit.

Note the positioning of the unit in relation to the sun or any other bright red or white light. LIDAR uses infrared light., and does not work as well when aimed into infrared light sources like the sun or high beam headlights.

Ask when the unit was last calibrated.

Ask to see a demonstration of the calibration. The same notes apply for the RADAR gun. These however, are not tuned by forks (I do not know how they are done).

YOU MUST MAKE NOTES AT THE SCENE. The officer certainly will. In court you may be asked if the notes were made while the events were still fresh in your mind. If you want to use the notes, then the answer must be a yes. Note the following:

The answers to any questions you asked the officer.
Any items you noted above.
Positions of OTHER CARS. You may be able to claim that he metered someone else, but stopped you (particularly lorries, since radar is good at locking into a larger object)..
The weather conditions.
The time and date.
Your direction of travel and the source and destination.
The lane you were in and the name of the road, also the area.
The officer's direction of travel and lane, or note if he was parked
A brief physical description of the officer so you recognize him in court (PHOTO if possible)
Take the officer's number, and the unit number on his car.

 

[digidude]

If you were caught on a Camera.
The police MUST send you a notice of intended prosecution within 14 days. If they do not, the case is a nonstarter.



Preparing for Trial
Examine the ticket a few times. Look for mistakes on the ticket such as a wrong name, time, date, or location. If there are any, you should tell them to the magistrate.

Gather evidence, you should write to the police and ask for at least the following items:

Full copy of the Instruction manual for the RADAR/LIDAR device used.
Copy (both sides) of the calibration certificate.
Details of the training (copy of certificate if there is one) given to the officer in the use of the PARTICULAR device.
I also recommend that you return to the scene and take pictures of the area, including any signs which indicate the law. Make sure that your pictures are clear. DO NOT use a digital camera, to the best of my knowledge its not admissible.

If the Crown Requests an Adjournment
An Adjournment is a postponement of the original trial date. The prosecution may ask for an adjournment because the officer cannot appear on the trial date which was set. If possible DO NOT agree to this, tell the judge that you had to take a day off work to appear or something (try not to lie.).

Make note of any irregularities in the procedure in your statement to the judge. Irregularities include things such as the wrong ticket number printed on the notice, a silly reason for requesting adjournment (such as a planned holiday, which the police should have known about before setting the date), or receipt of the adjournment notice too close to the trial date. It is possible that if you protest the adjournment, it will be denied. In this case (no pun intended) the charges should be dropped since you can't have a case without the officers presence.

In Court
Check in with the prosecutor and usher and make sure you are on the case list, and that he knows you have appeared for trial. This is just to make your presence known, and hope that may offer a plea bargain at this point, which you could consider. He may not.

Look for the officer. If he doesn't appear, the charges should be dropped. This is where it is handy to reference the physical description you should have taken at the scene. If the officer does appear he may approach you and ask to talk to you before the trial. You don't have to, but it is polite to. Ask him to withdraw the charge. He won't likely do that. DO NOT indicate your strategy to him, or show him any notes or pictures. Keep this stuff in a manila envelope or briefcase so that it is out of view prior to the actual trial.

Cross Examining the Officer
This is your chance to put your notes and pictures to work. Ask the officer questions about the day to establish whether he really remembers the incident and you. If he doesn't seem to, ask him directly whether he really remembers what happened that day. Destroying the officers credibility is an excellent way to get acquitted.

Ask about the radar or lidar equipment. If the officer refused to demonstrate the calibration, ask why and demand to know if the unit was truly calibrated. Each situation is different, but you should be able to use your notes to develop a strategy which insinuates that the equipment used to clock your speed was not accurate. If you achieve this you will be acquitted.

Ask the officer about the laws in the area. This includes turn controls, signalling devices, speed limits, and so on. If he doesn't get it right, use your pictures of the area to prove that he is wrong. Showing that the officer does not understand the laws in effect in the area is another good way to reduce his credibility as a witness against you.

You can try to go for the attack that the clocking may have been racially motivated. THIS IS VERY DANGEROUS and proceed with caution. If all goes well, you may make the officer lose his cool and throw a wobbly, this will drop his credibility. Or you may end up with a charge of contempt. Personally, I would leave this side of things unexplored.

Courtesy and Appearance
Do not underestimate the impression of a shower, clean shave, haircut, and nice suit and tie at the trial. You will look more innocent in this type of dress, and your chance of acquittal or fine reduction will be improved. You must also be courteous to the judge and officers of the court. If you make the judge mad, you will be convicted, so don't make him/her mad.



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Summary of Detection Methods.
What do policemen use to detect speeders on the road?
Their primary method of detection is to use a laser gun. Being one of the newest technologies and unlike radar guns, a laser beam doesn't spread out much at all, so the police can pinpoint one car and get a precise reading on it. So, why don't police just use laser? You need a VERY steady hand to use a laser gun, because the beam travels so fast there and back and the computer calculates the speed based on perhaps a quarter second burst. So, if the policeman moves his arm so much as a millimetre while shooting the gun, and the beam moves to a point on the car that is closer or further away then the initial contact point, the reading will be totally off. Think about it, if a policeman is pointing the gun at a front licence plate that is 150 feet away, a tiny movement of his arm would move the beam to the windshield of the car.
Because of these problems with laser, some courts in the USA have ruled that police cannot use laser for speed detection unless they can cross-reference their speed estimate by either a stopwatch or radar.

Radar guns use 3 different bands, these are X, K, and Ka superwide. There isn't a huge difference in performance of any of these bands, they just use different frequencies. Even with all the new technologies out there, police still tend to rely on their radar guns, they are tried and true. They do have a number of drawbacks, however. The beam emitted from a radar gun spreads rapidly, which means it performs poorly in heavy traffic conditions.

There are several other methods of detection the police may use. One of them is a speed trap such as Autovision, VASCAR, DS2 etc. Listed in the last pages, in which a portion of road has been measured or had devices fitted in the tarmac, and when you enter the speed trap, the police start a timer, video or similar.... and they can calculate your speed based on how long it takes you to get through the speed trap. These can work very well.

There's also photo radar, Gatso which may be built into traffic lights in medium to large size cities. The radar beam will calculate your speed, and snap a picture of your licence plate... and you'll get a ticket in the mail in 14 days.



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Evasion Methods
Stay alert!!!! Speeding requires concentration if you don't want to get caught. Keep your eyes peeled for police cars, as well as unmarked vehicles, Look for Video units, twin rear view mirrors. Slow down in areas where you can't see what's on the hard shoulders.

Don't pass other drivers at high speeds. They could be an off-duty copper. Slow down when approaching other cars, and pass them at a steady pace. Watch in your rear-view mirror, cars you pass should be receding. If they began to pick up pace, slow down.
If there are other cars going by at higher speeds, take advantage of it! Get in behind them with plenty of distance between you and follow for a while at a slightly slower speed. Blend back into the traffic after a period and wait for another to come along.

Don't keep up a sustained high speed. This is self-explanatory. The longer you go at a very high speed, the more likely you are to be caught.

Drive a nondescript vehicle. Police are only human! They're more likely to go for that shiny yellow Porsche then a dirty grey Volvo. Avoid sporty cars with bright colours. This doesn't mean you have to drive a crappy car! Just keep it simple, after all everybody hates boy racers.



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What is "Reasonable and Prudent?"
There are lots of idiots on the roads who floor the pedal and go shooting by everyone. Not everyone is like this, however. There are plenty of people who drive at a "reasonable and prudent" rate, regardless of the posted limit. It's impossible for a set speed limit to be able to apply to every time of the day and the situation. For example, you're going down a busy city street with the speed limit posted at 30. There are a lot of pedestrians and bicycles, and traffic is busy. It's a situation where going at the posted limit or less is the best option.
How about when you're on a country road with miles of straight stretches and no vehicles as far as eye can see, yet the speed limit is only 60?
You will find out that your driving performance and the number of tickets you get in your lifetime depends not on your following of the posted limits, but your ability to judge the situation and drive at a speed fitting for it. Police themselves regularly use common sense for what speed is suitable, which is why they frequently let people get away with highway speeds 10 mph over the limit, as long as the driving situation doesn't make that speed dangerous.

 

[digidude]

Here's a few tips on how to be reasonable and prudent yourself.
Stay at or under posted limits in the cities. Even late at night with little traffic, stay close to those limits. There is a lot more things that can happen on one of those streets than a major highway.
Stay at the limit the first time you go over a country area road. Once you know the twists and turns and what to expect, then you will be more comfortable going faster, and still be safer then you were the first few times you took that road.
Watch your highway speeds and be alert. Never exceed a speed where you do not feel in control of your car.


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Evasion Devices
There are plenty of gadgets out there that claim to help you get away with speeding. Most of them don't work!!! But some do..
Radar Detectors - Don't rely on all of these, well not all of them. The better ones such as the Bel 990 and Valentine One can give you a good warning on Gatso's
The way a detector works is it picks up a radar signal that might bounce off another car close to you. Automatic Doors, Traffic lights and Temporary Traffic lights also set off these units along with other innocent devices. If the police target you first, you're caught, because then you have no advance warning to slow down. If you're going to get one, make sure it has VG-2 detector detection. A VG-2 radar can sense if the targeted vehicle is using a radar detector, and police love to pick on people with one!

Learn to understand the unit, they can save you if you think about things, learning about the vocabulary of the burglar alarms, traffic light sensors and all that. If you pay attention even the lower cost units could save you.

An important note, Radar Detectors do not work through Heated Windscreens, Nor do they Pick up traps like VASCAR, DS2, Speedmaster and alike, They are only good for RADAR signals.



Gadget for the dashboard.... Yes....Ticket saver......Yes. (SEE OUR OWN TESTS ON RADAR DETECTORS)


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Laser Detectors - These are absolutely worthless. There's almost no reflection of a laser beam, so the only way a laser detector will go off is if you're the target, its too late then. They pretty much just tell you that you've been caught. Some manufactures claim 360-degree coverage, what about door pillars blocking the laser light etc.



Gadget for the dashboard.... Yes....Ticket saver......No


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Radar Jammers - These work, well sort of, if you are a distance away from the Speed trap you may have enough strength in your signal to jam the trap, but as you get closer it's another story. Read on......
There are two different kinds of Jammer, active and passive. Active Jammers are illegal in some countries, they beam back garbage to the radar receiver. A passive jammer is running constantly and basically scrambles the radar signal so the police get either an erroneous reading or no reading.
Be warned, radar guns and Gatso's can punch through most jamming at ranges of 150 feet or less.
I spoke recently to a salesman selling the Rocky Mountain Radar unit called, Sprit II he confirmed that he would not speed past a Gatso with one of these units in his car, he didn't trust it to do the job at a distance of less than 150ft. So would you spend £250 notes on it.... I think not.



Gadget for the dashboard.... Yes....Ticket saver......Not a chance....


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Laser Jammers - These use invisible IR. beams that break up the laser beam by interfering with the frequencies that the beam uses. They reduce the likelihood of a laser locking onto you by a pretty large margin. Most of the systems sold at the moment give you a warning that the jammer is working while it blocks the signal, some models give only 5 seconds to slow, others like the Blinder jam for as long as a laser is fired at them, giving plenty of time to slow down.

Gadget for the dashboard.... Yes....Ticket saver......Yes. If you fit it correctly and buy the right one. (SEE OUR OWN TESTS ON LASER JAMMERS)

You do however need to do other things to your vehicle to protect it from Laser. See FAQ on the Police Laser System.



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GATSO Proof ' Number Plate Protectors. - Well some work well and some don't, There are several types on the market... the Flash buster Type which has a highly reflective backing and letters that have the same reflective properties as the back don't work well, if at all. I have heard that the police can still read the letters and numbers, this is not totally confirmed though, but at between £50 & £80 for the plates I would want a guarantee that they worked.
Another type is from 'ON TRACK', they seam to work in the following way, Photo radar operates at known angles to the direction of traffic flow. Using a passive, state-of-the-art light-bending lens, the camera is unable to identify your vehicle because of the angle of the plate in relation to the Gatso. A 5-minute installation is all that is required and at less than £40 it could be a good buy. I have tried one and yes they do work.
Are they legal? Well, that's a bit of a grey area, the number plate is still completely readable from straight on, but you could get prosecuted for Perverting the Course of Justice, so one officer told me. They also have the technology to process the picture to get the VRN information if needed, but we could not see how, see the Equipment Test Page for more info.



Gadget for defence.... Yes....Ticket saver......Yes / Possibly (SEE OUR OWN TEST ON THE ONTRACK PRODUCT AND CAMERA SHY)


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Final Word from a Traffic Officer.
I Have been reading your site and cant resist having a little chuckle at the comments on your "Avoid that ticket" page. "Police officers also read this page and know most if not all the dodges"
I would make a personal comment that it matters not if people contest the speed at the scene, it happens all of the time. If the equipment has been tested properly then there should be no problem. More often if a speed is contested and the defence requests an expert witness then they will end up paying the bill if found guilty. This is what happened in the case of the individual who ended up with legal expenses totaling £15.000 contesting the accuracy of the LTI 20-20 in 1999. Remember your chances of being found not guilty at Court are very very slim.

If you genuinely believe that you are innocent, then please fight it, but if not be warned that it can cost you dear. I would add that I believe that police officers should use the equipment properly because motorists are NOT criminals they are in most cases decent people who have infringed Traffic Law.

If you state that you checked your speedometer and it did not say the same as the speed detection it matters not because the defence can only challenge the operation and accuracy of the device being used. There is no obligation for the police officer to show the recorded speed, because in the case of a follow check that would not be possible and in any event the officers will not reveal when a device was last calibrated other than in Court. I accept that we do show the speed recorded as a matter of best practice and in cross examination this can be confirmed with the defence as this will strengthen the prosecution case as to being open and honest.

Not all a one way street when it comes to tactics?

As for trying to get the officer to let you off a speed, it will most likely fail, if you are stopped you will almost certainly receive a ticket or a summons and any admission that perhaps your attention wandered might leave you open to a more serious offence, perhaps Driving Without Due Care and Attention?

I guess we might be impressed with a really original excuse but you'll have to be good as we've heard just about every combination going and in most languages including sign, repeatable and otherwise. I would say that when someone becomes abusive a professional officer will not react other than remain calm and deal with the individual as he should.

At the end of the day just being really honest might just do the trick because then no one feels insulted or undermined, not the police officer because he knows and not the driver because he knows. A very remote possibility but its human nature and there are no hard and fast rules.


Whatever peoples views are, unless drivers and riders take a slightly different approach to speed then the chances of losing your licence will increase as the speed limits decrease, it is already happening.

 

[nara]

It's worth investing in one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2421078397&category=9858

 

[Mr_Whippy]

no point,it just aint the same without the stripy/flashy bits!

 

[Mr_Whippy]

another tip for u all,if you are driving down a wide open road with fields/woodland either side ,ud think that aint a built up area,so ud think the limit if thers no signs would be national speed limit applies(60),you'd be correct but if there is one street lamp ,even if its lonely then its classed as a built up area and the limit is 30!
my m8 has been caught out like this by a mobile speed trap 2yrs ago.

 

[Rat]

ok

M8 what kind of post is that are u taking the mick.. why are u wasting peoples time ? we love members to get stuck in and post but please ask or help in a contructive way ..please