Another "Fit to Work" Death.

[danforth]

I presume danforth was being sarcastic and meant with questions like that you would think they were doing an opinion poll not messing with peoples lives?

Maybe a little sarcasm concerning the questions. Many seem irrelevant, others loaded, if a yes/no tick box is treated as a valid response.

Market research and opinion polls (often merged) are selective, depending on the desired result, and who pays for them.

"97% of 837 people questioned, would recommend ********", is fine for advertising small print, nobody cares anyway.

The effects of the ATOS questionnaire are very different, but a similar attitude seems to apply.

Edit:- Still not sure whether the above is sarcastic.

 

[Tallguy]

Why?







Isn't that a tad inconsistent with...



Don't forget the easiest way of finding out how big a slap gets someone pissed is to slap them...

Why??? Because what Migs says is true. These ones that take the piss out of the system get on my tits as they just sit back don't work and take everything that is thrown at them without a glance. I was on ESA then got taken off it after 1yr and I've had 3 operations and waiting on another one next month yet thise tossers at ATOS say I'm OK to work. So now I get nowt and depend on the wife's wage and Industrial Injuries Benefit too. My livelihood was taken from and it wasn't even my fault. So now I suffer and now watch these so called ill people rape the system and get away with it. There's a girl up from my Mum who's on the top DLA pay out with car and god what else and claims she is in too much pain to work bcoz of her back. Yet she can walk down the stairs carrying a TV and put it into her paid for car! Then go shopping with her pals and carry all the bags. Has she been reported? Yes numerous times and yet she still lives the "high life".

Don't get me started on these people scrounging the system as I have worked from the week I left school in 1983 never been out of work til now through no fault of my own yet I'm told get back out there with 2 bad knees.

So mate, that's "why".

 

[Tallguy]

I guess this is my point and why people will generally skip over the reality to what they read in the press or gossip from someone that hasn't got a clue. People only see the front end not what happens in the background, so naturally blame someone that isn't wholly to blame.

I blame the whole regime mate not just the front men. You just need to see the crowds and angry people on TV who are hounded by this type of injustice and seeing them suffer for it.

If you are due what your are due...you should get it and not made to feel bad about your situation.

 

[Him Her]

Why??? Because what Migs says is true. These ones that take the piss out of the system get on my tits as they just sit back don't work and take everything that is thrown at them without a glance. I was on ESA then got taken off it after 1yr and I've had 3 operations and waiting on another one next month yet thise tossers at ATOS say I'm OK to work. So now I get nowt and depend on the wife's wage and Industrial Injuries Benefit too. My livelihood was taken from and it wasn't even my fault. So now I suffer and now watch these so called ill people rape the system and get away with it. There's a girl up from my Mum who's on the top DLA pay out with car and god what else and claims she is in too much pain to work bcoz of her back. Yet she can walk down the stairs carrying a TV and put it into her paid for car! Then go shopping with her pals and carry all the bags. Has she been reported? Yes numerous times and yet she still lives the "high life".

Don't get me started on these people scrounging the system as I have worked from the week I left school in 1983 never been out of work til now through no fault of my own yet I'm told get back out there with 2 bad knees.

So mate, that's "why".

I wasn't getting at anyone M8 - I'm just suggesting there's a kind of inconsistency between the arguments is all. You argue the same as we all do...

...the point is your illustrious leaders are seeking to divide and test. It may be bad or good, time will tell. Maybe the cheats will get found out and the deserving will get the help they deserve.

I'd love to post some amazingly sensible answer but I don't have one

 

[Tallguy]

I wasn't getting at anyone M8 - I'm just suggesting there's a kind of inconsistency between the arguments is all. You argue the same as we all do...

...the point is your illustrious leaders are seeking to divide and test. It may be bad or good, time will tell. Maybe the cheats will get found out and the deserving will get the help they deserve.

I'd love to post some amazingly sensible answer but I don't have one

Me too mate, if we had the right answers we'd make a fortune lol. I just think it's so unfair for these people to be forced into deciding who stays on and who gets taken off the benefits that they need.

The last time I got interviewed the guy told me he would mark down that I couldn't do certain bending etc because of my knees. What happened?

He or whoever who did the report said I had no problem bending or stretching. The also reported that I had refused to use the stool to get onto the bed. Reason, I'm 6ft 8" so my arse is well above the bed so the stool wasn't needed yet they told them I refused to use the stool.

I watched junkies once going in for their interview and coming out 5 mins later saying "well that's us sorted for a wee while longer with the benefit".

I've even been told about a guy who undressed then dressed again putting all his clothes back on from jacket first to under garments last then claiming he was daft. Who told to do this?

The guy at the benefits office!!

 

[D 8 RCS]

I guess this is my point and why people will generally skip over the reality to what they read in the press or gossip from someone that hasn't got a clue. People only see the front end not what happens in the background, so naturally blame someone that isn't wholly to blame.

Exos are you trying to make me agree with everything you say !!!!
The fact of the matter is that they are all partially to blame and they are all to quick to hide behind each other and pass the buck. They all need to spend less time deflecting criticism and more time analysing the complaints and the amount of appeals and find ways of correcting this.
As for the DWP Decision Makers, this is certainly something that needs serious investigation because before a claimant can go to appeal they have to request a re-consideration and have to explain why the case should be re-considered. So they are failing twice before the claimant takes the case to Her Majesty's Courts and Tribunals Services appeal, and they then have a 3rd chance to state why they have rejected the claim. The majority of appeals at the Tribunal are not even attended by anyone from DWP and therefore not even contested and I believe that is because they know that refusal of a large majority of claims is for no other reason than being in the hope of the claimant being too upset, scared or depressed to continue with an appeal.
While the claimants are awaiting appeal they are either not placed on an reduced "assessment rate" if it is an ESA claim or they do not receive the benefit at all as in the case of a DLA claim.
Even with the lowest deduction of benefit it amounts to £21 per week on DLA and £25 a week on ESA, a big chunk to be taken out of your benefits !! and the time between starting the appeal process and the actual hearing can be anything between 2 months and over 2 years !
Do you think that anyone on benefits that have had their benefits reduced by £25 a week can get by without going deep into debt and usually with the consequence of then suffering stress and depression ? Another reason why many do not even bother to go to appeal.
And I can quote this first hand because I have just been through it for both ESA and DLA ! With the ESA appeal having taken just over 2 years to be heard and with the Judge from both appeals finding in my favour and in both cases recommending that I should not require re-assessment for at least 2 more years. Only for DLA to request ATOS to arrange a "medical" for me 4 days after they received the Tribunal ruling !!

 

[danforth]

If a DSL or ESA benefit is reduced, and the appeal is eventually successful, is the payment difference backdated ?

 

[Tallguy]

If a DSL or ESA benefit is reduced, and the appeal is eventually successful, is the payment difference backdated ?

Yes, when I won my appeal I got back the money I was owed.

 

[danforth]

Yes, when I won my appeal I got back the money I was owed.

So, they kick the cost down the road for up to 2 years, then pay it after it's been devalued by inflation and QE.

Maybe after an election as well ?

 

[D 8 RCS]

If a DSL or ESA benefit is reduced, and the appeal is eventually successful, is the payment difference backdated ?

As Greenthunder says; Yes at least it should be, at this point DWP often resort to intimidation and/or delaying tactics.
In my case it was the ATOS medical appointment and then being told that DLA intended to appeal to the higher tier Tribunal, which thanks to my Avocate and some research I knew could only be done on a point of law. I informed them that I knew that and that I would also reporting to HMCTS (Tribunal) the fact they had request an ATOS medical so soon after the tribunal's decision. 2 Days later I was informed that I did not have to attend an ATOS medical and the back pay would be paid into my account the next day, which it was. However, had I not known about these things and just accepted the ATOS medical I could have been "found fit to work" and then have to start the appeal process again but then the back pay would only be payable back to the date of this 2nd appeal.
As for ESA, they stopped my fortnightly payment !
When I rang them and asked why, they said they could not find any reason why or how the payment had been stopped.............Yeah Right ! I then said in which case they should pay the money into my account straight away, to which they replied "Why ? you had a lump sum paid into your account by DLA last week !" the fact that I had used that money to pay back family and friends that have bankrolled me over the period of waiting for the appeal and that I bought some actual new clothes (instead of charity shop) for myself and family for the 1st time in 2 years and that I have filled my freezer with food that isn't about to go out of date for a change; what has gone into my account is irrelavant unless it is over a certain amount that has to be declared and taken into account (which it wasn't anywhere near above, but maybe that is what they are trying to do with higher amount claims !) what had that got to do with anything ?
Enraged by now, I then said if we are talking about back pay when will I be paid my new rate and back money ? to which they replied "What new rate and back pay ?" I then said about the tribunal results (which I knew had been received) and they blatently denied having received any communication from the tribunal to which I replied they were lying. Now although I was fuming I had not once sworn or been abusive but it was at this juncture they said there was not any point in continuing the conversation and ended the call.
I have not received my ESA payment yet but I have sent a letter asking when and what will my back payment be and if my ESA fortnightly money is not in my account on Monday I shall be phoning again and despite feeling like being really abusive to them I will politely ask what is occurring.
The back pay will allow me to get the car through its mot and then tax it for the year to ensure that my wife will be able to drive me to the appointments that I have no doubt DWP will ask me to attend and although the money is needed to do things around the house I am hoping I will be able to donate something to the local charity that has been a godsend to me and helped by providing an Advocate and support.

 

[danforth]

As Greenthunder says; Yes at least it should be, at this point DWP often resort to intimidation and/or delaying tactics.
In my case it was the ATOS medical appointment and then being told that DLA intended to appeal to the higher tier Tribunal, which thanks to my Avocate and some research I knew could only be done on a point of law. I informed them that I knew that and that I would also reporting to HMCTS (Tribunal) the fact they had request an ATOS medical so soon after the tribunal's decision. 2 Days later I was informed that I did not have to attend an ATOS medical and the back pay would be paid into my account the next day, which it was. However, had I not known about these things and just accepted the ATOS medical I could have been "found fit to work" and then have to start the appeal process again but then the back pay would only be payable back to the date of this 2nd appeal.
As for ESA, they stopped my fortnightly payment !
When I rang them and asked why, they said they could not find any reason why or how the payment had been stopped.............Yeah Right ! I then said in which case they should pay the money into my account straight away, to which they replied "Why ? you had a lump sum paid into your account by DLA last week !" the fact that I had used that money to pay back family and friends that have bankrolled me over the period of waiting for the appeal and that I bought some actual new clothes (instead of charity shop) for myself and family for the 1st time in 2 years and that I have filled my freezer with food that isn't about to go out of date for a change; what has gone into my account is irrelavant unless it is over a certain amount that has to be declared and taken into account (which it wasn't anywhere near above, but maybe that is what they are trying to do with higher amount claims !) what had that got to do with anything ?
Enraged by now, I then said if we are talking about back pay when will I be paid my new rate and back money ? to which they replied "What new rate and back pay ?" I then said about the tribunal results (which I knew had been received) and they blatently denied having received any communication from the tribunal to which I replied they were lying. Now although I was fuming I had not once sworn or been abusive but it was at this juncture they said there was not any point in continuing the conversation and ended the call.
I have not received my ESA payment yet but I have sent a letter asking when and what will my back payment be and if my ESA fortnightly money is not in my account on Monday I shall be phoning again and despite feeling like being really abusive to them I will politely ask what is occurring.
The back pay will allow me to get the car through its mot and then tax it for the year to ensure that my wife will be able to drive me to the appointments that I have no doubt DWP will ask me to attend and although the money is needed to do things around the house I am hoping I will be able to donate something to the local charity that has been a godsend to me and helped by providing an Advocate and support.

If I remember correctly, one of the ATOS questions is "How is your temper ?" At least you can supply evidence of yours.

I would be livid !:Angryfire